nelcatjar
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Band-in-a-Box users
POLL: Does anyone use Band-in-a-Box to create midi files and then import the midi into Sonar?
The difference between a musician and a large pizza is... a large pizza can feed a family of 4. Sonar 8 Producer, E-Mu 1616m, Brian Moore i88.13 synth guitar, Roland GR-20 & GR-33, Band-in-a-Box, Taylor 312ce, and some drum machines.
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Roflcopter
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 09:51:29
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Yeah, I usually even have to remember to save the last version to disk, since that copy-to-buffer is so darn convenient. Awful lot of ways of going about that export, tho - what's your problem?
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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strikinglyhandsome1
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 10:04:03
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I can't help but think that Elvis wouldn't be concerned about BITB and would be tucking into that pizza
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nelcatjar
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 10:17:26
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Roflcopter, BIAB is easy to setup a drum and bass part in MIDI, and then I add the audio in Sonar. I had a latency problem on playback. The MIDI and audio started getting out of sync on playback.
(strikinglyhandsome1... that was funny)
The difference between a musician and a large pizza is... a large pizza can feed a family of 4. Sonar 8 Producer, E-Mu 1616m, Brian Moore i88.13 synth guitar, Roland GR-20 & GR-33, Band-in-a-Box, Taylor 312ce, and some drum machines.
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Roflcopter
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 10:30:00
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Assuming you have everything in the right tempo etc, it sounds like a latency thing, something in your sound setup. Nothing to do with BiaB, or midi.
@strikinglyhandsome1
Yeah, it's amazing how I stay so lean on a measly 5900 calories a day. [gets another fried banana with peanutbutter]
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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Desperate Dan
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 11:25:36
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What version of Band-in-a-box are you using? Also are you using the Virtual Synths with it as this builds in a fixed amount of latency as per the supplied VSC DXI Plugin which might be your problem.
Windows 7 Professional 64 bit - Intel Q-9550 2.83 CPU, 8Gb DDR800, Gigabyte EP35-DS3R, M-Audio Delta 44, Yamaha HS-80M Monitors, UAD-1 Ultra Pack I'm reading a book about anti-gravity at the moment and I just can't put it down
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Roflcopter
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 11:45:36
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I would just select the TTS-1 as DXI, I prefer its sound over the VSC anyway. Never have anything out of kilter in Sonar that way either, since I usually just connect the midi in Sonar to a TTS-1 instance there as well - I can even have both programs open at the same time, like I said.
It's a great timesaver in my setup.
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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Beagle
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 11:52:52
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roflcopter is right - I use BIAB for drums especially and other backing tracks as well all the time. the latency has nothing to do with BIAB and MIDI tracks being imported into sonar -it has to do with your system - almost exclusivley your soundcard and its drivers. what soundcard are you using?
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Mike Kohlgraf
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 12:07:59
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I actually use Realtracks and Realdrums from BIAB and import those into Sonar ... it's a beautiful thing. Audio only, not MIDI. Using the latest version of BIAB with all the additional RealTracks.
Cheers,
Mike
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Roflcopter
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 12:15:44
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Funny, I use it strictly for the midi functions, so upgrading my 2007 is totally pointless, for me - all the new stuff is audio, indeed. And I create my own styles, so even multistyles is not really essential for me. 
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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MarioD
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 14:13:59
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If you’re only using wavs then make sure the sample rates from BiaB (I believe it’s 16 bit/44.1K) and from your recording are identical. Otherwise they will not sync during playback.
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riojazz
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 17:46:10
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MarioD is well regarded in the BIAB forum as an expert. He is correct, the audio coming out of BIAB is always 44.1/16 bit.
However, the original poster is only importing MIDI from BIAB. Be aware that, in BIAB, you can do things to the MIDI such as Play, Slide Tracks to alter the timing of individual MIDI instruments. If you had done that, it might be more challenging to sync them with audio in SONAR. I have never had a problem, though, and even if you did, you have the Timer adjustment for MIDI tracks, right under the patch selector for each MIDI track in SONAR.
There is also a timing adjustment within BIAB to sync a soundcard audio and MIDI track, but to my knowledge, it alters the offset timing of the audio only, so MIDI exported from BIAB would be unaffected.
Software: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Adobe Audition; Band-in-A-Box audiophile; Izotope Ozone; Encore; Melodyne; Win 10 Pro, 64-bit. Hardware: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd; Roland Integra-7; TCE Finalizer; Presonus Central Station, Behringer X-Touch. Home built i7 with 16 GB RAM, SSDs.
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k4ro
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 17:48:39
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ORIGINAL: nelcatjar
POLL: Does anyone use Band-in-a-Box to create midi files and then import the midi into Sonar?
Yes. I find BIAB to be a very useful practice tool, but I don't like the BIAB interface. I typically export BIAB songs to MIDI (copying right to the clipboard) and then paste the MIDI into a SONAR project (again, pasting straight from the clipboard.) It works like a charm, and SONAR has complete control over all tracks. I suppose the same control can be had from within BIAB, but I much prefer the SONAR interface.
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daveny5
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 17:52:07
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Yes. Its better for jazz or new-age style music, but its works well. I've created pieces that way and then export them to a MIDI file that I import to Sonar. Then I'll re-do most, if not all, of the tracks or rearrange/mutate them using different instruments and effects, add tracks. Now you know my secret! 
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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Zonno
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 19:31:13
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I use BIAB mostly to practice Jazz guitar soloing or bass playing.
Have used BIAB generated drums and piano in SONAR a few times, when I was writing big band scores.
Been trying to copy a 5/4 midi drums from BIAB into SONAR, but gave up.
(I still want to write a big band score for Toogs by Scofield, which is 5/4)
SONAR squeezed the 5/4 measure into the first four counts, or other strange things happened, whatever I tried.
Cakewalk, Reason 10, KOMPLETE 11, BIAB 2018, Roland OctaCapture, Finale 26, PCR-300, HP ZBook, Guitars __________________ Any text above is a random collection of characters which bear no meaning whatsoever. The reader will be held liable for any damage due to interpretation of these characters.
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Robomusic
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 19:46:20
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BiaB 2008.5 here, and i find it does a very nice job at basic track beds. i use both the RTs and Rds and the midi and it can make for a great start to a song that i can play over and polish up.
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Roflcopter
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 19:59:40
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Well, I wouldn't use the generated music it puts out. That's pretty pathetic, to be honest. I saw a comparison with some new program Microsoft has been playing around with (currently in beta) that does a much finer job of creating nice patterns. This was pretty well tested, with a rather large panel of people doing blind tests. It's absolutely marvelous for reharmonising, and adding the required minimum to your tune via the right style. But that's different - don't think it will make music for you - that's going to be a deception, I think. It's not very good at it, and any veteran user could spot a BiaB tune with his eyes closed, I think. 
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 20:16:09
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You have to be kidding me. To me BIAB has the most sophisticated style generation of any product in its class. Songsmith doesn't even scratch the surface there. You must be thinking of a earlier versions of the product that did pure MIDI based patterns. The new generation ever since it does real tracks is quite amazing since all the patterns are audio. (Perhaps more so if you have an interest in jazz or some other acoustic styles). The patterns it generates for drums and bass are 100% authentic since they are based on phrases played by real musicians. With some work you can create pretty authentic stuff that you would be hard pressed to do if you didn't actually have an intimate knowledge of all the instruments.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2009/03/17 20:24:56
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Roflcopter
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 20:25:24
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You have to be kidding me. To me BIAB has the most sophisticated style generation of any product in its class.
You must be thinking of a earlier versions of the product that did pure MIDI based patterns. I said I used 2007, didn't I? And that I didn't upgrade because nearly all the new stuff is audio? Don't know the exact version BiaB they used for the comparison, but the text seems from 2008 somewhere: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/dan/mysong/ but it would certainly seem there was room for improvement, judging from those results. And still - I cannot use audio as easily as I can (re)use that midi. To me, big difference - however neat-o it may sound. It's still frozen.
post edited by Roflcopter - 2009/03/17 20:32:50
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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Dave Modisette
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 22:33:01
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I'm going to have to check out BIAB again since it's been improved. I've used it to create a couple of inexpensive backing tracks for an amateur singer to use at her church. It's nice when you have someone who has written a song that is just lyrics and melody. You can insert chord changes that are being suggested to you by the melody you are hearing and immediate ask the composer if it is what they had in mind. You can then try some alternate chords and get immediate feedback from the client if you are on the right track.
I'm not a keyboardist at all so I really would like a product that could produce convincing keyboard parts. I've been wishing for a product that would be along the lines of EZkeyboards. I had hoped that Studio Instruments by Cakewalk would have become something along that line but it's fallen along the wayside and never been developed as far as midi patterns are concerned.
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Oaf_Topik
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 22:50:51
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Original Rolfcopter:
Well, I wouldn't use the generated music it puts out. That's pretty pathetic, to be honest. I saw a comparison with some new program Microsoft has been playing around with (currently in beta) that does a much finer job of creating nice patterns. For your information the Microsoft program that you refer to is called Songsmith. The backing styles that were used in Songsmith were created by PG music, makers of Band In A Box!
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tsanders
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 23:00:11
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I used BIAB all the time. Like many here I'm not a keyboard player or drummer and I use it to generate a lot of my backing tracks. I've gotten pretty good with manipulating the soloist feature as well. Check out my tune "Discover The Secret" at my Soundclick link below. The synth solo is auto generated with some coaxing of the parameters and then a few notes cleaned up in Sonar. Drums are BIAB midi played thru EZ Drummer.
<<TS>>
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riojazz
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 23:06:48
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Mod Bod, BIAB would be ideal for your purpose, especially if you purchase a good set of Real Tracks. However, because of the time each song with Real Tracks needs to regenerate (maybe 30 seconds or so), I recommend you develop songs with MIDI only, and only convert the instruments to Real Tracks and Real Drums once the song is 'done'. Roflcopter, even if you do not want to use the Real Tracks or Real Drums (or Real Charts), I recommend you upgrade just to get the bug fixes that have occurred in the three versions beyond yours. The minimal upgrade, without Real Tracks, is quite inexpensive. True, most of the new functionality is in the Real instruments, but there are some new features for MIDI as well. Disclosure: I have worked for PG Music, makers of BIAB, as a consultant.
post edited by riojazz - 2009/03/17 23:15:46
Software: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Adobe Audition; Band-in-A-Box audiophile; Izotope Ozone; Encore; Melodyne; Win 10 Pro, 64-bit. Hardware: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd; Roland Integra-7; TCE Finalizer; Presonus Central Station, Behringer X-Touch. Home built i7 with 16 GB RAM, SSDs.
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jazaddict
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 23:34:27
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tsanders,
Nice track. great idea. I'd love to hear you record a drummer & a bass player playin that...it's nice like it is, but it'd JUMP outta the speakers w/ live players me thinks.
:clap:
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nelcatjar
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/17 23:35:03
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WOW! All these BIAB users chiming in... I had no idea people used it so much, and the same way I am, creating basic MIDI tracks and importing into Cakewalk. All that to say, (as the thread starter) I think my latency issue is not there now. I don't know, it must have fixed itself. I imported another midi file and recorded some audio, and it sounded in sync.
To answer the question before, I have a DELL XPS400 and am using an E-MU 1616m.
But please continue your discussion on BIAB. I love to hear your wonderful and exciting insite.
The difference between a musician and a large pizza is... a large pizza can feed a family of 4. Sonar 8 Producer, E-Mu 1616m, Brian Moore i88.13 synth guitar, Roland GR-20 & GR-33, Band-in-a-Box, Taylor 312ce, and some drum machines.
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mudgel
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/18 00:56:38
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Then there's Jammer Pro which now has a version that works as a VST plugin within SONAR.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Roflcopter
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/18 05:16:40
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For your information the Microsoft program that you refer to is called Songsmith. The backing styles that were used in Songsmith were created by PG music, makers of Band In A Box! And for your information: it isn't called Songsmith, but Mysong. It's a new program. See the link in my previous post. Noel made the same misassumption in his edit, I see. I was working on something that would follow some rules in chords via Hidden Markov Models, but found out it was already being done. Nope, it's pretty new.
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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alvie
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/18 06:32:56
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Alain Sonar X1 Producer Expanded (64 bits) Windows 7 (64 bits) Intel I7 / 8 MB UA-4FX, EMU XBoard49, AT-2020 http://parseq.alvie.ca/
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Mike Kohlgraf
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/18 06:57:10
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ORIGINAL: Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
You have to be kidding me. To me BIAB has the most sophisticated style generation of any product in its class. Songsmith doesn't even scratch the surface there.
You must be thinking of a earlier versions of the product that did pure MIDI based patterns. The new generation ever since it does real tracks is quite amazing since all the patterns are audio. (Perhaps more so if you have an interest in jazz or some other acoustic styles). The patterns it generates for drums and bass are 100% authentic since they are based on phrases played by real musicians.
With some work you can create pretty authentic stuff that you would be hard pressed to do if you didn't actually have an intimate knowledge of all the instruments.
I can only underline this post. BIAB has become a very powerful tool and is unmatched by any competition. Cheers, Mike
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DaveClark
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RE: Band-in-a-Box users
2009/03/18 07:59:44
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Hi all,
I completely agree with the fans of BIAB and will attempt to correct a *possible* misimpression made by Noel's post. BIAB is also quite good for MIDI, and has been for a long time. Not only can you use existing styles, create hybrid styles, etc. but you can create entirely new styles with all your own playing. Therefore what you do with this valuable tool and how much you get out of it is ultimately up to you, the user.
Blaming BIAB for bad music is like blaming a stove for bad cooking or blaming a saw for bad carpentry. Yes, if you simply push the buttons and accept the VSC DXi output to WAV, then you'll not necessarily get a great work any more than just throwing something in an oven for two minutes at 150 F will get you great meal. There are far, far more possibilities than this simplistic approach. Anyone who wants to criticize PG Music for misleading folks about pushing a button to get great music is free to do so, but not much attention will be paid by those of us who feel we understand what PG Music is really trying to accomplish and what real software can actually hope to accomplish along the lines of compositional assistance.
Mike's claim about BIAB being "unmatched" is absolutely correct. There are some pale imitations out there; I am not aware of any that offer anywhere near the sheer number of capabilities and understanding of both music theory and music heuristics that BIAB does.
Regards,
Dave Clark
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