Helpful ReplyBarre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me

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Beepster
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/01 13:37:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2014/02/01 21:26:52
The "normal" position (with the body draped over the right leg) is absolutely horrendous for not just neck stability and fretboard access it also brutal for one's posture. I attribute the advancement of my spinal curvature to being hunched over a guitar in that position for endless hours as a young puke. If I try that position now I have to put the guitar down shortly after and go lay down to stretch my back out again.
 
Now I use a strap to keep the guitar at my ten o'clock with the bass of the body resting on my right thigh to take some of the weight off. If I stood up the guitar would be strapped across where my stomach begins and my rib cage ends.
 
It sure don't look cool but allows for some major rippage all across the fretboard. Joe Satch and most of the crazy jazz guys wear their guitars up that high so that should tell you something.
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Rikkie
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/01 13:39:17 (permalink)
Cool tele, nice posture too ; )
 
http://youtu.be/deeBQZ8Aklc
post edited by Rikkie - 2014/02/01 13:44:32
#32
Beepster
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/01 13:56:09 (permalink)
Rikkie
Cool tele, nice posture too ; )
 
http://youtu.be/deeBQZ8Aklc





Indeed. That's just a little lower than my guit would sit if I stood up from my chair but if I were going to play standing I would loosen the strap to land about there if I were really doing the fancy stuff. I tend to point my headstock a little more northwards but again it would probably drift south if I were standing and perhaps more so playing higher up the neck as he is there.
 
And am I seeing jumbo polished frets on a scalloped neck there? Good lord I wish I had some of that shiz going on my axe. So crisp and clean.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/01 21:31:01 (permalink)
Rikkie
Cool tele, nice posture too ; )
 
http://youtu.be/deeBQZ8Aklc


That guy is pretty damn good!
#34
dubdisciple
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/01 21:31:11 (permalink)
Rikkie
Cool tele, nice posture too ; )
 
http://youtu.be/deeBQZ8Aklc


That guy is pretty damn good!
#35
dubdisciple
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/01 21:34:57 (permalink)
[link=mailto:lol@sharke]lol@sharke[/link].  The whole cool way of holding the guitar reminds me of in movies where they hold the gun sideways.
 
@rikkie  great advice.  I'm sure I could save myself a little discomfort and get better tone if i pay more attention to holding it properly
#36
sharke
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/02 00:00:53 (permalink)
Beepster
The "normal" position (with the body draped over the right leg) is absolutely horrendous for not just neck stability and fretboard access it also brutal for one's posture. I attribute the advancement of my spinal curvature to being hunched over a guitar in that position for endless hours as a young puke. If I try that position now I have to put the guitar down shortly after and go lay down to stretch my back out again.
 
Now I use a strap to keep the guitar at my ten o'clock with the bass of the body resting on my right thigh to take some of the weight off. If I stood up the guitar would be strapped across where my stomach begins and my rib cage ends.
 
It sure don't look cool but allows for some major rippage all across the fretboard. Joe Satch and most of the crazy jazz guys wear their guitars up that high so that should tell you something.




I wear my guitar that high up too. Definitely easier to play it up there. I remember as a teen in a thrash band, everyone was trying to outdo each other in the low slung stakes. I went along a little but hated it. Nothing worst than trying to shred with your wrist all bent up like that. 
 
To be honest I prefer to stand when I play, but lately that's been irritating my lower back a lot. I think walking dogs for so many years did me some damage. Before I became the "boss" I just worked alone for myself, and it would involve 8-10 hour days of constant walking. I carried a shoulder bag with me and I'd usually have some big ass programming manual in there or something to read on my breaks. It's not good to carry a weight like that over your shoulders all day. So when I stand up with the guitar, I'm feeling the same back pain I used to get lugging that bag around. And 100lb monster dogs pulling my arms out of their sockets didn't exactly do me any good either 

James
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sharke
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/02 00:03:50 (permalink)
Rikkie
Cool tele, nice posture too ; )
 
http://youtu.be/deeBQZ8Aklc




Ah you cannot whack Roy Buchanan!

James
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Kev999
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/02 01:24:16 (permalink)
sharke
...I remember as a teen in a thrash band, everyone was trying to outdo each other in the low slung stakes. I went along a little but hated it. Nothing worst than trying to shred with your wrist all bent up like that.



Here's an early example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vWTtx_PxPo
Did the Small Faces start that trend?

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#39
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/02 02:03:06 (permalink)
Kev999
sharke
...I remember as a teen in a thrash band, everyone was trying to outdo each other in the low slung stakes. I went along a little but hated it. Nothing worst than trying to shred with your wrist all bent up like that.



Here's an early example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vWTtx_PxPo
Did the Small Faces start that trend?




I should think Pete Townsend had a hand in it as well. 
 
And then at the other extreme of course, there was Mark King 
 


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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/02 02:20:35 (permalink)
sharke
Kev999
sharke
...in the low slung stakes...

Here's an early example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vWTtx_PxPo
Did the Small Faces start that trend?

I should think Pete Townsend had a hand in it as well. 
 



Certainly he did later on but he wasn't wearing his guitar low in 1968.

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Jay Tee 4303
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/02 16:48:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2014/02/06 11:18:59
Solid background in practice priorities here, so plenty of options to pick and choose what works for YOU.
 
On another plane, two key elements are comfort, and audibility. I can't overstate how many "dirty jobs" I've learned to enjoy, simply by getting my stance and breathing right. Three broken vertebra mean I stand straight, or endure torture, so I TAKE THE TIME to get comfortable and the obstacles melt away.
 
In guitar practice this means two things for YOU. Get your position comfortable for the long haul, and that will also get your breathing right. Right for breathing means "out of the way".
 
"Comfortable" however, gets into an area not much discussed. A key element is technical, and simple, but maybe not obvious.
 
You have to create balanced volume levels between at least two sources, your guitar and either the master performance you are learning from, OR, your guitar and your timebase (and backing tracks). In short, it helps immensely to be able to adjust relative levels, without leaving a comfortable position.
 
You can get a small measure of this from an electric guitar, but there are tone and gain FX penalties in this approach.
 
If, however, you happen to have a smartphone (new or retired) and a Bluetooth speaker laying around, placing the adjustability on the Accompanyment side of the equation yields great benefit, in addition to keeping the necessary guitar tone no matter what.
 
Without leaving your comfortable position, you can:
 
1. Balance the signals.
2. Tune the guitar.
3. Watch and play along with videos.
4. Set, adjust, and keep a timebase with a basic drum machine app on the smartphone.
5. Play with and learn from a wide variety of music files, including MP3s and Waves.
6. Alter playback speed of MP3s and Waves at will.
7. Record rudimentary (solo) song and riff ideas, on the smartphone, which you can then playback and layer on top of as per item 5 above.
 
If you are an Apple Eater, you can probably multi-track with your smartphone, but being an Android myself, we are decades behind in audio handling, and have to choose between recording and playback, one at a time.
 
In my opinion, and from a bird's eye 5 to 20 year view, the guy who is comfortable will be putting in the hours, and achieving much better levels of expression and satisfaction, while the guy who is straining, physically, or to hear himself or his teacher or his drummer, is going to find something else to do much quicker.
post edited by Jay Tee 4303 - 2014/02/02 16:51:38

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#42
spacey
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/04 08:18:16 (permalink)
Most people have limited time to practice so knowing how and what to practice helps one get the most out of the time they have. That's one major plus of having a good instructor.
It stands to reason that learning as much as possible such as theory, tunings, reading etc., are all good.
 
I haven't used this (because I see no personal benefit) but it may be a very good investment for the price.
 
 
I didn't read all the posts...sorry if it's already been mentioned.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/06 11:21:16 (permalink)
spacey
Most people have limited time to practice so knowing how and what to practice helps one get the most out of the time they have. That's one major plus of having a good instructor.
It stands to reason that learning as much as possible such as theory, tunings, reading etc., are all good.
 
I haven't used this (because I see no personal benefit) but it may be a very good investment for the price.
 
 
I didn't read all the posts...sorry if it's already been mentioned.


 I have wondered as to how effective this is.  It's not that expensive of an investment so it may be worht a try.
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mettelus
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/06 22:59:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2014/02/07 01:57:55
For scales and modes, a gentleman by the name of John Walkenbach made an Excel file that is driven by macros that allows you to chose key, scale/mode, change tunings, etc. and updates the fret board for you accordingly.
 
It took me a while to realize I needed to Google HIM and not that specific xls file, since it does require macros enabled to run (and could be a virus risk if not his). I actually found the correct file easily from his site (he obviously has a passion for Excel!!!)
 
http://spreadsheetpage.com/index.php/file/guitar_scales_and_modes/
 
I was actually bouncing back and forth if I should even mention this because I was worried about the macro part (and why I wouldn't drop the xls file name), didn't occur to me to Google him at first, sheesh.

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dubdisciple
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/07 01:59:31 (permalink)
big thanks!!
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/02/11 16:10:02 (permalink)
Danny Danzi
dubdisciple
To make a long story short, I have picked up the guitar after years of letting them collect dust.  I never was a guitar player. I bought a couple 8-9 years ago, taught myself to play a little and then I had a tragedy strike that made me not want to touch a guitar.  Recently i decided to start again and remembered one of the things I was struggling with..barre chords.  How the f#$@% do you play them with any consistency? Does anyone know any tricks or tips for such things? 




Hey dub, how about I make YOU laugh?
 
I've got a pretty good musical track record....3/4 of which I never share with the forum unless I get asked specific questions or feel the need to explain something from experience.
 
That said, I suffer from the same thing you do. As a matter of fact, I suffered from barre chords so bad, when I was 12 years old, I sort of came up with my own way of tuning and to this day, it's how I play because I can barely play in standard tuning. So if you've ever heard me play, that's all done in a goofy tuning that would make you and any other guitarist laugh their butts off. :) I never wanted to be a virtuoso guitarist....I never wanted to learn theory....I never even thought I'd be interested in playing lead guitar and I NEVER though I'd have to learn crazy chords.
 
 
 
-Danny


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mettelus
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/03/07 11:44:35 (permalink)
Hey Dub, how is the class going? Is that one ending this week too?
 
Just to share that everyone is always learning.... I ran across this video of Brian Setzer last week, and didn't get too far into it before I started cussing... from 5:30-6:00 you can see how deftly he switches from picking, to finger picking! Half the time I try that stunt I end up dropping the pick. He even tucks it under his index finger moving back and forth off the tremolo! My hands are always dry, so I am not sure if that is all technique or if his pick has a truckload of "Gorilla snot" on it. I just wanted to share that... if you saw how many times I "squirted" the pick out of my hand you would be able to get a good laugh
 
I found I cussed even more trying to do that...
post edited by mettelus - 2014/03/07 11:45:52

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#48
Dave Modisette
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/03/10 14:48:29 (permalink)
When I was a kid the issue was trying to emulate what George Harrison was playing.  He was a barre chord freak.  He was always holding the barre and play open "G" chord and "C" chord formations like he was capo-ing up in any key.

I can do a bit of that now but not song after song because of hand cramping.

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Truckermusic
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/03/11 12:04:45 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2014/04/14 12:41:50
Many people ask this very same question so you are not alone.
 
There are a couple of things that you need to do and they are very simple.
1. make sure your guitar is set up properly...If you are not sure about this then take it to a "Trusted" guitar tech. If you do not know one, ask around your area for recommendations......google them etc....but do some looking....It may cost you about $40 bucks or so but it will save you a LOT of frustration...
 
2. Learn a System ......meaning there is a very logical system any compentent guitar teacher or friend can show you....it all stems out of the 1st postion chords E, A and D.......learn the major chords, the minor chords, dominante 7th chord, minor 7th chords and Major 7th chords.......with these 5 qualities you should be able to play your way thru any tune....
Once you learn them in 1st position then push then up and down the finger board
 
3. The CAGED system is also a good system....
 
4. Now ....to the mix......
Contrary to popular belief and I know that I am going to get slammed here but this is the truth...and if your guitar is set up properly..........It does NOT take a lot of strength to play barre chords....I know that is how we all start our but.....in fact if the muscle between your 1st finger and thumb is bulging out in a few minutes of playing them.......then you are trying to man handle the instrumet....
 
What it takes is finess and technique......once aquired you can play your barre chords with out tiring....
rather than try to re type all this finess information please read this article.....
http://douglasniedt.com/Tech_Tip_Little_Jennifer.html
 
I know it is by a trained classical guitarist......but we can learn from it......cause it works.....
 
5. Lastly, if you do want to increase the strength of your hands Please DO NOT go out and buy one of thoese items that music stores sell that you push with your fingers.......or that other item body builders use to squeeze in their hands......
 
Why?.........you are only building ONE muscle in the hand and in the end you will injure it........
There are 4 muscles in the hand....why would you only want to exercise one muscle.....and leave the other three alone?????  does not make much sense to me....
 
Instead there is a product out called Power Putty and it is cheap $8.00.
http://www.rei.com/produc...0&msid=v49ni7BC_dc|pcrid|44272128400|&{copy:s_kwcid}
 
It comes with instructions that include exercises for ALL FOUR Muscle groups of the hand so you are encompassing a COMPLETE package so to speak.....
the soft is really soft.....the medium (Green) is a good starting point and the Blue med. hard is REALLY HARD.....you will do your self more good with the Green three times a week (like while you are watching the news) than anything else you can do..
but also if you over do it you can hurt yourself ....so be moderate in your approach....
 
anyway
that is my 2 cents to your question...
If you want I have an excel spread sheet outlining how to go from 1st position chords into barre chords and how to take it around the neck.....if you PM me I will send it to you ....
 
Also use the arm muscles and not the hand muscles....
 
Clifford

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#50
sharke
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/03/15 22:48:55 (permalink)
Truckermusic
Many people ask this very same question so you are not alone.
 
There are a couple of things that you need to do and they are very simple.
1. make sure your guitar is set up properly...If you are not sure about this then take it to a "Trusted" guitar tech. If you do not know one, ask around your area for recommendations......google them etc....but do some looking....It may cost you about $40 bucks or so but it will save you a LOT of frustration...
 
2. Learn a System ......meaning there is a very logical system any compentent guitar teacher or friend can show you....it all stems out of the 1st postion chords E, A and D.......learn the major chords, the minor chords, dominante 7th chord, minor 7th chords and Major 7th chords.......with these 5 qualities you should be able to play your way thru any tune....
Once you learn them in 1st position then push then up and down the finger board
 
3. The CAGED system is also a good system....
 
4. Now ....to the mix......
Contrary to popular belief and I know that I am going to get slammed here but this is the truth...and if your guitar is set up properly..........It does NOT take a lot of strength to play barre chords....I know that is how we all start our but.....in fact if the muscle between your 1st finger and thumb is bulging out in a few minutes of playing them.......then you are trying to man handle the instrumet....
 
What it takes is finess and technique......once aquired you can play your barre chords with out tiring....
rather than try to re type all this finess information please read this article.....
http://douglasniedt.com/Tech_Tip_Little_Jennifer.html
 
I know it is by a trained classical guitarist......but we can learn from it......cause it works.....
 
5. Lastly, if you do want to increase the strength of your hands Please DO NOT go out and buy one of thoese items that music stores sell that you push with your fingers.......or that other item body builders use to squeeze in their hands......
 
Why?.........you are only building ONE muscle in the hand and in the end you will injure it........
There are 4 muscles in the hand....why would you only want to exercise one muscle.....and leave the other three alone?????  does not make much sense to me....
 
Instead there is a product out called Power Putty and it is cheap $8.00.
http://www.rei.com/produc...0&msid=v49ni7BC_dc|pcrid|44272128400|&{copy:s_kwcid}
 
It comes with instructions that include exercises for ALL FOUR Muscle groups of the hand so you are encompassing a COMPLETE package so to speak.....
the soft is really soft.....the medium (Green) is a good starting point and the Blue med. hard is REALLY HARD.....you will do your self more good with the Green three times a week (like while you are watching the news) than anything else you can do..
but also if you over do it you can hurt yourself ....so be moderate in your approach....
 
anyway
that is my 2 cents to your question...
If you want I have an excel spread sheet outlining how to go from 1st position chords into barre chords and how to take it around the neck.....if you PM me I will send it to you ....
 
Also use the arm muscles and not the hand muscles....
 
Clifford


I think I mentioned this earlier but picking up a full sheet of newspaper (broadsheet) with one hand and crumpling it up into a ball is one of the best hand strengthening exercises out there. Another good one is to get a set of chime balls and learn how to rotate them. I used to have a large set (please, no jokes) and I got to the point where I could rotate them in both directions just using my fingers without the thumb. After a good five minutes of that your hands feel incredibly powerful.

James
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#51
Kev999
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/03/16 01:41:42 (permalink)
Sometimes when I find something difficult to play on a 6-string guitar, I try playing the same thing it on my 12-string, which makes it even harder.  Then after returning to the 6-string it suddenly seems much easier.
 
 

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#52
LpMike75
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/03/16 14:02:11 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2014/03/31 13:37:20
If playing the whole chord is painful, just learn the triad on the top 4 strings and let the bass worry about the low notes :)
 
Incidentally, mixing your material might be easier too.


- Mike
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#53
dubdisciple
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/03/31 13:40:46 (permalink)
mettelus
Hey Dub, how is the class going? Is that one ending this week too?
 
Just to share that everyone is always learning.... I ran across this video of Brian Setzer last week, and didn't get too far into it before I started cussing... from 5:30-6:00 you can see how deftly he switches from picking, to finger picking! Half the time I try that stunt I end up dropping the pick. He even tucks it under his index finger moving back and forth off the tremolo! My hands are always dry, so I am not sure if that is all technique or if his pick has a truckload of "Gorilla snot" on it. I just wanted to share that... if you saw how many times I "squirted" the pick out of my hand you would be able to get a good laugh
 
I found I cussed even more trying to do that...




 
I got ultra busy and my courseload was overwhelming but i finished.  good beginner course.  i just need to practice more
#54
mmorgan
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/04/01 10:14:02 (permalink)
dubdisciple
 
... i just need to practice more




I've been playing guitar for nearly 5 decades. I still practice nearly every day. It's what musicians do. 
 
Regards,


Mike

Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
#55
Living Room Rocker
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Re: Barre chords help...yes, feel free to laugh at me 2014/04/13 22:23:27 (permalink)
In my early days of learning guitar, I would hold up an acoustic guitar by the neck with my index finger across the entire fret board and my thumb against the back of the neck; like pinching the next with just those two fingers.  I would start at the highest fret (close to the body of the guitar) for a period of time or as long as I could.  I would then work my way down the fret board over a period of time...kinda like practicing scales or patterns.  So, at the lowest end of the fret board would be the toughest since you will be holding up the guitar with the majority of weight at the bottom.
 
After doing this (especially with a nylon/classical guitar) for a while, you will quickly find how easy it is to bar chords on an electric.
 
Kind regards,
 
Living Room Rocker
#56
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