Alegria

"SvenArne"

Anyone remember how low (in Hz) a male bass vocal goes, typically?

Assuming C4 @ 261.63Hz then a tenor should be comfortable hitting C3 @ 130.81Hz and in some cases, as low as A2 @ 110.00Hz. A bass (below a baritone) should be comfortable hitting E2 @ 82.41Hz and again is some cases, as low as C2 @ 65.41Hz.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.  

Thanks, that sounds about right to me! So, assuming that 99,9% of all singing will be above 80 Hz most lo-cut switches won't do anything to vocals, other than taming thundering foot taps and wind bursts...

SvenArne

 If you like deep and warm vocals (I have no idea what type of voices you'll be recording) the Bluebird may not be the best choice even with carefully controlled proximity effect. I have used it quite a bit and it seems to work best for high/mid range female voices. 

Hmm then what mic in a similar price range would you suggest? I don't know how to describe the type of sound I'm seeking other than warm and full. Maybe like a thicker sound? Deep sound? If you listen to a Neumann mic, such as the U87, U67, even the TLM102, it just sounds more in-your-face and deep. I'm hunting for a mic that gives that type of sound, but in the pricerange of the Bluebird. Of course I will never find a mic thats as top notch quality as a Neumann with the budget I have, but at least something that has a similar type of sound.


I've heard good things about the AT4040, but I'm not sure if it has that deep, full tone. This one does have a bass-rolloff switch I believe, which is a plus.

Do you have the oportunity to jump into a store and try some out with some headphones on? It's difficult to really hear them properly in a store, but better to at least run it through your voice first if you can.

I remember someone posted some audio samples once comparing a few different mics of which the bluebird was included along side a U87 and a few cheaper mics too. He was singing a U2 song in it. I'll see if I can find..

SvenArne

 Of the Audio Technica Range, I've only ever heard the 4050, and while it's really good for almost everything, I don't think it's the kind of "voice-reinforcement" mic that I suspect you're searching for. The TLM-102 however, it think would be a very good choice for your particular purpose! It's not that expensive, is it?

TLM-102? HA I wish...  Musicians friend sells it for $700... and the AT4050 for $700 as well. If I had that kind of money, I would get the TLM-102 in a heartbeat.


My budget is $300, which is why I mentioned the Bluebird and AT4040, which are both exactly that price... Sigh

"mattplaysguitar"
To two decimal places! Really?!?!?

It was abbreviated from originally 4 decimals. 

vaultwit

I have looked at the SM7 yes, but right now I'm not looking for a dynamic mic but rather a condenser. Currently I'm using a puny AT2020, and I need an upgrade.

While I haven't heard the AT2020, I get the impression it's roughly as good as it gets below 300$. You might find a smoother or cleaner mic for the money, but I don't believe deeper, warmer or more characterful. 

And honestly, it's not that I can't afford a $700 mic, especially if I did save up. But I just need to start spending less money on music equipment in general, I've spent way too much. Which is why I set my budget at $300. Used to be $200, but I figured since mic is such an important thing, I could tack on a extra 100

A good main vocal mic is the one piece of studio equipment that would benefit your recordings the most in the ears of most people IMO. Why not freeze your plugins/guitar stomp boxes/cymbals/bass strings  and most especially preamps/converters/cables budget until you can afford such a monumental item for your studio?

Alegria

"mattplaysguitar"

To two decimal places! Really?!?!?

It was abbreviated from originally 4 decimals. 

And can you please provide the expanded uncertainty on that measurement? Do you have the calibration certificates for all the equipment used to determine those numbers?


Sorry, I work as an engineer in a testing laboratory 


But it's Easter holiday now, so screw your calibration certificates!!! You can use 10 decimal places if you want!! With, gosh, should I say it, NO uncertainty measurement...  Oooo, I feel naughty.. What would my boss say...

My first LDC was a Rode NT-1A, with no integrated HPF. I had a LOT of problems with plosives - unless I was very careful to keep distance from the mic. These weren't problems you could mitigate later with EQ. A breath into that mic can completely overwhelm it.

Most of the time, you can avoid the problem by backing off the mic, but not always. Sometimes, the song style just calls for getting up on the mic, and the NT-1A was absolutely useless for that. I went back to dynamic mics for awhile, but they weren't really ideal for close-up either, due to their proximity effect. I borrowed some ribbons (Beyerdynamic M130) and liked them a lot, but they weren't what you'd call general-purpose mics.

Ultimately, I concluded that the only solution was to pony up for a decent LDC. I bought a Shure KSM-44, which has a two-position HPF (80Hz and 160Hz, and I normally use the latter). No more problems with plosives, and it works on anything and everything: male and female vocals, group vocals, acoustic guitars, spoken word, drums and percussion. Everything comes through clean and natural-sounding. And when I want it to be really flat, I can put it into omni mode, something the cardiod-only Rode could not do.

I kept the NT1-A, and it still comes out now and again. But the Shure is my workhorse and has never let me down in the 7 years I've had it. I have never regretted the expenditure, which at the time was a fair chunk o' change for me, about $800 (I think they're around a grand nowadays).

The moral of my story is this: I believe you're better off owning one quality microphone that can do everything, as opposed to many cheap mics that are limited to specific applications. (I know, I know, that's not always true; if you're miking drums you're better off with a dozen 58s than a single Neumann. But I don't mic drums here at home.)

I appreciate everyone's input, and I couldn't agree more than its much more wise to save up and invest in a mic, and then never have to worry about mics again. However, when I say that $300 is my limit, I mean that is and will always be my limit (at least for a long long time).

I am currently a student, and I just do music as a hobby (for now...). I dont even have a dedicated system for my DAW, I have SONAR loaded onto my laptop that I literally also use literally to write up lab reports or essays for school.

And like any advice anyone would give to a student, I need to learn to save my money instead of spending it on things like mic, even if I may technically have the money to buy it... self control, right?

Anyways, maybe sometime in the years to come, when I am working full time and such, I'll be able to get away with a $700 mic  but for now, even $300 is sort of pushing it... took a lot for me to shell out $400 for SONAR in the first place 

vaultwit


I appreciate everyone's input, and I couldn't agree more than its much more wise to save up and invest in a mic, and then never have to worry about mics again. However, when I say that $300 is my limit, I mean that is and will always be my limit (at least for a long long time).

I am currently a student, and I just do music as a hobby (for now...). I dont even have a dedicated system for my DAW, I have SONAR loaded onto my laptop that I literally also use literally to write up lab reports or essays for school.

And like any advice anyone would give to a student, I need to learn to save my money instead of spending it on things like mic, even if I may technically have the money to buy it... self control, right?

Anyways, maybe sometime in the years to come, when I am working full time and such, I'll be able to get away with a $700 mic  but for now, even $300 is sort of pushing it... took a lot for me to shell out $400 for SONAR in the first place 

I totally respect your stance on this and the fact you are a student. Way to go! :) But just keep one thing in mind...and this is really important at least to me. When I spend a lot of time doing something I love, and that something I love frustrates me or is not giving me the results I want/need, I'm not going to enjoy it.
 
If I have the money for a new guitar yet the guitar I have constantly goes out of tune when I play it and the one I really want is $400 more, you better believe I'm going to save for it instead of get the cheaper thing that ins't really what I want.
 
Here's another situation. I'm a die hard gamer. Mostly racing games. I have real wheels and pedals...the whole 9 yards. It's pretty disgusting to take gaming to the level in which I have, but I can't help it...it's what I enjoy. On one of my wheels, I broke the paddle shifter. I tried to fix it, but couldn't totally get it...so I rigged it the best that I could. They don't sell the paddle alone for this wheel, so I'd have to buy another one. That said, I'm having such a terrible time enjoying myself with this wheel, I don't play the game as often because of it. (I've also been too busy to as well) This has also forced me to stay away from other driving games because I just can't get into it if I can't shift gears the way I want to. Automatic settings just don't do it for me. LOL!
 
My point is, if saving up will help you enjoy something more and get better results in a shorter amount of time, you're only affecting your performance and enjoyment factor. It's like I tell my recording students that won't invest in new monitors or room correction.....
 
"This is a hobby you love. You spend loads of time enjoying this fun little thing. Why not make the best use of that time having the right stuff instead of struggling to make things work while being unhappy?"
 
It just doesn't make sense to me to look at it any other way unless you are so poor, you are struggling to pay bills and can barely survive. If you can afford something you really want eventually and can save for it, why not go for it and sacrifice something else? Is it really worth hearing your voice through a mic that still may not cut it and having to tweak for hours trying to compensate for that thickness you're not getting? Granted, I know times are tough especially when you're a student....I've been there myself. However, you can't put a price on personal enjoyment when it's something you love and spend loads of time with. You're worth it....you work hard, it's good you are all about saving and being conscious of things...but one good mic can make a huge difference and is a necessity in everyone's arsenal in my opinion next to a good set of monitors and some room tuning. :)
 
I'm not trying to sway your opinion....I'm just looking at it from another side. :)
 
-Danny

SvenArne


Danny is providing sage wisdom as usual! Take your 300$ and put them in the bank! For the time being, there's still much you can get out of your AT2020! It's not what's preventing you from making a hit record! Don't waste your money on some mic that's not really much better than what you already have!





Can I add? You'll probably be going on Gearslutz or whatever and people will tell you to get a better preamp. In one word: DON'T! The outboard preamp definitely comes after the $700 mic on your to-buy list!!! 

If you end up getting a $300 Blue Bluebird and a $300 Golden Age Pre 73 in the course of the next months, the joke's really on you! I'm trying hard not to be a prick here... 

I'd certainly trade in one of my preamps and two of my $300 mics for a TLM-102...  

Sven

+1000! Well said Sven on all counts! :)
 
-Danny

SvenArne

Danny Danzi
     
Here's another situation. I'm a die hard gamer. Mostly racing games.

-Danny

I'm guessing Gran Turisimo? I'm an Xbox 360 Forza gamer myself. I get my wheel and pedals out the second my wife and family has gone to bed. Makes me feel like I'm Montoya or Senna (until I go race online and find out what a loser sunday driver I really am). It breaks my heart whenever someone on the internet tells me my driving simulator isn't very realistic. I'm saving up for a 900 degree wheel with a real stick shift!

Sven, would you believe both? We so need to hook up. Haha! I love Forza on Xbox 360! You're as hooked as I am it sounds. Hahaha! Hey, it's the only thing I do besides music these days. I gotta have a little fun, right? :) If you're ever on, look me up. My gamer tag is SIK MALICE 8 U
 
-Danny