Marshall
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Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
Are there any real benefits to running more than one DAW? I have SPLAT, and was thinking of getting the free Tracktion 5, just for fun. I used Tracktion 1 and 2 as my only DAW many years ago, and I'm curious to see it again. Kind of nostalgic too.
Is a second daw just for fun? Another toy to play with? Or are there real benefits in having a second one?
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synkrotron
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/21 17:17:38
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Hi Bill, I bought Reaper. Used it a bit... Thought it was good. Not used it for ages. I am so at home in Sonar, always have been. But that's just me  cheers andy
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bapu
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/21 18:21:57
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For me, and I'm not 100% there yet, Harrison's Mixbus 32C is my #2 DAW for mixing and mastering.
The reason why I am not there yet is that they have a serious problem with UAD and Brainworks plugs.
Once they straighten that out my plan is to 99% of the time do my mixing and mastering in Mixbus.
I have Reaper and like Andy, I found no joy in its paradigm. I do not plan on buying a new license when V6 comes out.
I also have Studio One Pro 3.x and I thought that its "arranger" ability was something I'd like to use but I'm still more comfortable in SONAR for tracking and editing. Maybe one day SONAR will have "arranger" capabilities and I can stop paying upgrade fees for Studio One too.
I expect to continue to pay upgrade fees for Mixbus 32C (and maybe Mixbus 3 too, we'll see).
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bapu
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/21 18:24:08
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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that for me the benefit of using Mixbus 32C for mixing and mastering is that I use it a break away from tracking and editing (change of mindset i.e. think differently).
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Sidroe
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/21 18:46:26
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I love the sound of Mixbus and it seems you can get a better mix faster but Mixbus doesn't play well with Sonar drivers for my Roland Studio-Captures so I can't use it without my ASIO drivers hanging if I go back to Sonar. Splat's good enough anyway.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Fleer
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/21 23:07:51
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Went for Tracktion as a second. Simple and smooth.
"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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Kuusniemi
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/22 03:42:33
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I view a DAW as a tool; either it can give you something you don't already have and need or it doesn't. If the first then get and use it. If the latter, then there's really no point in having it. For basic sequencing I prefer to use what I work best with, which is Sonar. Have never seen the need to use another DAW. I can and have used, but never felt anything is better than Sonar, since it's workflow suits me.
But I have bought a copy of Reaper, because it is vastly ahead of Sonar in one thing: time stretching. The engine and an algorithm in Reaper is far far far superior than the one in Sonar. So for me this second DAW is a tool for a specific task.
But would I use Reaper for much more? Probably not, since Sonar gives me everything the way I want it.
Composer & Sound Designer at Really Slow Motion, Man Makes Noise, Epic North, YleX and Yle Puhe.
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Rain
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/22 04:23:23
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My main DAW is Logic X. I also have Pro Tools installed, to take advantage of my control surface (Command 8). The performance leaves to be desired compared to Logic, so I don't use it that much, but it's handy for compatibility reasons, and I try to stay on top of it because PT is everywhere. I have Harrison MixBus, which I never use. Cubase, if I feel like I need a change of pace - but I don't use it either. I had Studio One but I sold my license because I never used it. In my experience - and I know it's different for every one - the only reason I ever really "need" another DAW is if I feel uninspired. Instead of working, I start messing with plug-ins and synths. But the problem is me, not my DAW. If I'm inspired, I can't imagine working with anything but the software I know like the back of my hand. For me the benefit of having a second DAW is that I can launch it and get it out of my system, validating that a second DAW is not the solution to my problem. Every time I do launch Cubase or Pro Tools, I usually get back to Logic within minutes. In all fairness, if I had to pick a real second DAW, I'd pick Logic 9. On a very pragmatic level - a lot of my music is built in Logic, meaning that I create sounds as I go, adding busses and all. By the time it's time to mix, I don't feel like starting from scratch. And Logic let's me create a new project and import individual tracks, their settings, automation and their assigned effects and busses if I want to - which is the best of both world. I guess if I recorded bands, it's be different.
post edited by Rain - 2016/09/22 04:45:58
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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smallstonefan
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/22 07:51:05
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I now use Ableton Live for most of my stuff because it's unique workflow fits my creative process. I mostly use Sonar for it's comping features.
I actually prefer Sonar for mixing - I love the Console view. I just found that I do a lot of mixing as I create, and dumping those tracks from Ableton to bring into Sonar is more work than it's worth.
I have both Mixbus versions, and I intend to try and master my current project in Mixbus after exporting stems from Ableton Live.
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KingsMix
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/22 08:59:29
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☄ Helpfulby Fog 2016/09/22 19:53:05
Depends on "your" workflow and what "you" are trying to accomplish.
For "you" another DAW could be more efficient at some task than another maybe.
To save yourself some financial remorse, just try the demo of whatever DAW you might be interested in, that's pretty much an easy thing to do nowadays.
Imho.
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patriciocs
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/22 13:03:41
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Exactly, it is a matter of taste, personal workflow and needs. To me Reaper is by far my first DAW and later Sonar Artist. Its routing capabilities have no comparison with Sonar Artist, as also its hierarchical tracks system. Also to me Reaper is rock solid in my Windows machine with an incredibly low footprint in my system, something I sadly cannot say about Sonar Artist at least in my configuration.
The only thing is that you need to invest a little time understanding Reaper and its philosophy. Once you do that and after a little customization, it is unbeatable. It did such and improvement in my workflow that I did the huge work of migrating all of my Sonar projects to Reaper. Now I use SONAR only for working on projects I share with a friend who only uses SONAR and in order to open old projects.
The only thing I miss in Reaper that SONAR have very well implemented is my M-Audio Projectmix control surface driver. Reaper one is a little basic compared with SONAR implementation... but it is something I can live with.
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Amicus717
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/22 21:31:17
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My main DAW is Sonar Plat, and I've been using -- and enjoying -- Cakewalk products since Sonar 3 Producer came out.
However, I did buy Reaper as a back-up DAW when I was struggling with Sonar Platinum's stability on my previous system. I was using SPLAT with a VS-700 system, and while it sounded great, it was not stable. I went with Reaper not because of any particular feature or workflow element, but simply because it was a very good sounding and sophisticated DAW, that was also really cheap. I don't actually like working in it, but I do acknowledge that it gets the job done, and has a deep feature set. It saw a fair amount of use for a span of about 9 - 10 months, off and on.
I have since resolved my SPLAT issues by ditching the VS-700 and moving to RME, and building a brand new audio computer from scratch, with 100% new components. SPLAT is now solid and stable like granite, and I've had no reason at all to fire up Reaper. But its there if I need it, and it never hurts to have a back-up system.
Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 Pro 64, Core i7-5820K Haswell-E CPU, 32GB DDR4 RAM, RME Babyface, Adam F7 monitors, Mackie MCU
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Maarkr
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/22 22:05:16
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i started with sony acid (& pro) prob 20 years ago and still use it in certain cases... looping, stretching, pitching. I have many projects I started on it over the years and still go back and listen to song 'ideas' to resurrect, remix and finish. I use Reaper for mostly quick ideas or midi building for keyboard midi files... low overhead and quick to get going. SPLAT is my primary DAW for most projects and final mixes. Cubase was too klunky and I liked Reason, but the brain cells can only manage so much, so I stopped using it.
Maarkr Studio: SPALT Lifetime/BL Cakewalk, Studio One 3.5, UAD, Z3ta+2, IKM, NI, Waves, iZotope, Melda, Reaper i7 3770/Giga Z77 mobo, Win10 Pro-64 w16Gb, MOTU Ultralite MK4, Yamaha HS80M wSub, Live: PX-5S, FA-06, Roland Lucina, Epi Les Paul, Ibanez Bass, Amps, e-drums, Zoom R-16... Latest album release, NEW! Counry Classic at http://genemaarkr.bandcamp.com/
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bitflipper
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/22 22:27:24
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If the last time you saw Tracktion was version 2, you're in for a shock. It's grown up a lot.
I can think of one good reason for a second DAW: if you have ProTools you can put it up on the screen to show idiot clients who think it's the only DAW for "pros", or who think "ProTools" and "DAW" are synonyms.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bapu
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/23 10:47:54
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timidi
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/23 21:48:25
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I got Studio One mainly for something to use on my Macbook.
I got Mixbuss cause Bapu said it had Mojo..
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Fleer
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/23 22:10:59
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bapu
I like Cinnamons.
Bun intended.
"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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abacab
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/24 12:48:28
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I use Sonar, but I also have the evaluation version of Reaper. I put it on to A/B test with. For example if I run into some issue using Sonar, I like to determine if it's caused by my PC, Sonar, or a plugin. For example, if a 3rd party plugin works OK in one DAW, but not the other, that's useful info. Or if it's a audio issue, is it the DAW software, or the audio interface setup, audio settings, etc.? So having a 2nd DAW can help isolate problems.
The only other reason I could see spending time to learn the workflow of a 2nd DAW is if offered something drastically different and useful. The best example that comes to my mind is Ableton Live. The session view does something really special. If you are into loop based song construction it's also very friendly. It's also great if you intend to perform live with a computer.
I have an older full version of Ableton, that sadly will not run correctly on Windows 10. Probably not going to bother paying to upgrade, as I only used it on rare occasions. Like if I was just looking for a distraction, or just wanted to play around.
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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mettelus
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/24 18:08:49
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For me this comes down to specific functions. I use Adobe Audition a lot as a wave editor launching from SONAR's utility menu, but also master in it a lot. While technically a "DAW," it is more for features non-existent in SONAR, and I feel as a stand-alone DAW Audition is sorely lacking (my version (v4) has no MIDI support whatsoever, but was rebuilt from scratch on the audio side).
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Marshall
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/25 15:47:18
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abacab
I use Sonar, but I also have the evaluation version of Reaper. I put it on to A/B test with. For example if I run into some issue using Sonar, I like to determine if it's caused by my PC, Sonar, or a plugin. For example, if a 3rd party plugin works OK in one DAW, but not the other, that's useful info. Or if it's a audio issue, is it the DAW software, or the audio interface setup, audio settings, etc.? So having a 2nd DAW can help isolate problems.
This is a really good point. I have a software / conflict issue at present (documented here http://forum.cakewalk.com/Cursor-movement-over-GUIs-causing-audible-crackling-m3488966.aspx ) It would be good info to know if it is present in another DAW. Thanks all for the interesting replies.
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JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/25 19:06:38
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I use Sonar because it is my native language. I started with Cakewalk version I don't know what. And I'm pretty sure, though it is now several houses later, I still have a factory disc labelled Cakewalk Pro Audio somewhere in the basement. Over the years I have learned a lot of nuances of Protools and a few things about Cubase. Not because I used them, but because that's what my friends were using and if I wanted to hang around with them, I had to know how to use their tools. Oddly those friends have switched horses several times. First Protools, then Nuendo, then Cubase and now I think Studio One and Logic. All the while, I've been on some version of Cakewalk/Sonar. I've helped them through their various struggles as best I was able and learned their various platforms as needed to facilitate working with them. But I learned a long time ago to stop saying 'yeah I dunno, I use Sonar and I don't have any problem like that' because it always seems to fall on deaf ears and/or just seems to piss them off. I guess the problem is I'm the lone keyboard guy of the group and everyone else I know is a guitar guy. And their perception is that any serious DAW should be audio first and MIDI as an add-on but to them Sonar is a MIDI first and audio second solution. I've given up trying to argue that because as I've said, it falls on deaf ears, at least in my group. So I'm relegated to a world where I'm forced to learn everyone else's DAW if I want to work with them because none of them seem the least bit interested in learning mine even though I've never switched horses and my solution still works great after all these years. C'est la vie.
post edited by JohanSebatianGremlin - 2016/09/25 19:28:06
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Kuusniemi
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/26 02:58:53
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JohanSebatianGremlin
I use Sonar because it is my native language. I started with Cakewalk version I don't know what. And I'm pretty sure, though it is now several houses later, I still have a factory disc labelled Cakewalk Pro Audio somewhere in the basement.
Over the years I have learned a lot of nuances of Protools and a few things about Cubase. Not because I used them, but because that's what my friends were using and if I wanted to hang around with them, I had to know how to use their tools.
Oddly those friends have switched horses several times. First Protools, then Nuendo, then Cubase and now I think Studio One and Logic. All the while, I've been on some version of Cakewalk/Sonar. I've helped them through their various struggles as best I was able and learned their various platforms as needed to facilitate working with them.
But I learned a long time ago to stop saying 'yeah I dunno, I use Sonar and I don't have any problem like that' because it always seems to fall on deaf ears and/or just seems to piss them off. I guess the problem is I'm the lone keyboard guy of the group and everyone else I know is a guitar guy. And their perception is that any serious DAW should be audio first and MIDI as an add-on but to them Sonar is a MIDI first and audio second solution.
I've given up trying to argue that because as I've said, it falls on deaf ears, at least in my group. So I'm relegated to a world where I'm forced to learn everyone else's DAW if I want to work with them because none of them seem the least bit interested in learning mine even though I've never switched horses and my solution still works great after all these years. C'est la vie.
This is something I keep running into. I use Sonar professionally in my composing / sound design job at the biggest media house in Finland (the Finnish Broadcasting Company). And I've always wondered why people are so locked on the oh-this-is-the-only-software-professional-use mode. For me having a tool that I do not need to change between jobs is a relieve. No jumping between two or more software to do different things. I can just chug anything into a project I want. And still people tell me "all the professional use Logic", which can be so easily proved as BS. What I always tell people is that it's not the software, it's what you do with it. The people listening to your productions aren't going to give a flying fudge whether you used a certain "professional" software or not. They care whether what you've made is good or not (and most of the time they just really won't care at all either way). From my experience with different "pro" DAWs I can say that the one that has pro in the name (I'm looking at you BroTools) is the most clunckiest piece of gear ever deviced... I'd rather use Logic, which to my Sonar loving senses is completely illogic software... :D End rant.
post edited by Kuusniemi - 2016/09/26 03:20:40
Composer & Sound Designer at Really Slow Motion, Man Makes Noise, Epic North, YleX and Yle Puhe.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/26 08:20:39
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Kuusniemi
What I always tell people is that it's not the software, it's what you do with it. The people listening to your productions aren't going to give a flying fudge whether you used a certain "professional" software or not. They care whether what you've made is good or not (and most of the time they just really won't care at all either way).
From my experience with different "pro" DAWs I can say that the one that has pro in the name (I'm looking at you BroTools) is the most clunckiest piece of gear ever deviced... I'd rather use Logic, which to my Sonar loving senses is completely illogic software... :D
Well said. I don't understand how people get so attached to a piece of software that they go trolling around bashing alternatives ... I use Sonar because it provides what I need - and it has become really stable and keeps expanding its functionality faster than I can find the need for the new stuff. Probably my mind is too limited to think of something that I'm truly missing there, either. Apart from Sonar I bought Mixbus with the idea to become as cool as bapu. So far it has not worked ... well, Mixbus itself works, apparently that's not the issue here ...
post edited by Rob[at]Sound-Rehab - 2016/09/26 08:42:18
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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bapu
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/26 12:30:00
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Rob[atSound-Rehab]
Apart from Sonar I bought Mixbus with the idea to become as cool as bapu. So far it has not worked ... well, Mixbus itself works, apparently that's not the issue here ...
LOL! You need the Alembic bass too. DOH!
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elsongs
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/27 02:25:34
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I'm a registered user of three DAWs...
Sonar Platinum is my main one for sequencing and recording, but I also have Reason 9.1 on both my studio PC and my MacBook Pro, mainly for composing and sequencing; I rarely use the audio track recording features of Reason.
I also have Studio One v3.3 on both computers, but mainly as a mobile recording DAW if I have to take my MacBook Pro somewhere outside my studio to record tracks. The tracks usually get transferred to a Sonar project in the end, though.
I'm mainly a PC Windows guy but I have a MacBook Pro because I've never met a PC laptop that I actually liked. Apple wins hands down in the laptop game.
Elson Trinidad Los Angeles, CA, USA Web: www.elsongs.com Twitter: twitter.com/elsongs DAWs: Cakewalk by Bandlab, Cakewalk Sonar Platinum x64, Propellerhead Reason 9, Presonus Studio One v3 OS: Windows 10 Professional CPU: Intel i7 3820 3.6MHz MB: ASRock X79 Xtreme4 RAM: Corsair Vengeance 16GB DDR3 Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd Generation MIDI: MOTU Microlite & Novation Impulse 61
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Zo
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/28 08:07:57
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I'm exactly in the same land as Bapu here (Mix buss and S1 ) ... i will only add that sometime , the fact that i'm less confortable leads me in another creativ land , as we know limition is a key ....
Also in my case , i have to know pretty every daw for my job : teaching ... (so i have to master also Live , PT , Cubase ..ect )
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
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pwalpwal
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/28 08:25:54
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one possible use case: after moving from one daw to another, one might keep the original daw as an archive-retrieving tool for accessing old projects
i have sonar, studio one, live and mixbus
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jerrydf
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/09/28 08:30:33
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Do Octamed and Digital Orchestrator Pro count? I still have those somewhere, including the Amiga for the Octamed. Haven't used DOPro since Windows XP, I think. I remember that Roger McGuinn was also a user of DOPro.
i5 6500 3.2GHz; 16GB; Win10 on SSD1; recording and samples on SSD2; + 3 other HDDs; 2 monitors in landscape; back with CbB and also Cubase 10 Pro, Komplete 11, Steinberg UR22. Instruments: Various fretboards and amplifiers. Listen to ... Cosmic Two-Step (2017)
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Bloodrocuted666
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/10/05 19:08:02
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I have Sonar Platinum(recently upgraded from pro), Reason 7(still considering the 9 upgrade) and Reaper 5.
I bought Reaper with a plan to start using it instead of Sonar for a band that I collaborate with other people on as it is both pc and mac but could never get used to it.
Reason 7 I bought and use it to rewire as well as occasionally standalone. I don't really use it to record audio into but I do sometimes export a drum loop from Sonar turn it into a rx2 file as I like being able to hit tab in reason to turn the rack around and start plugging things in randomly just to see what happens. I mostly write industrial rock/metal type stuff and the first daws I ever used were reason 2 and fruity loops 2. And while I don't miss fruity loops I did miss the whole workflow of Reason.
Sonar Platinum - Sonar Professional Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 - Roland QuadCapture - Scarlett 8i6 i7 6700K - 32GB ram - Win 10 Schecter - Gibson - Ibanez - Peavey - Orange - Digitech - Propellerheads - Slate Digital - Native Instruments
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BobF
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Re: Benefits of running a second DAW. Are there any?
2016/10/06 08:49:12
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I've been using Cake since Pro8. I went to Reaper during the X1/X2 era and moved back at X3. There are things I like about both and things I wish worked differently in both - but I'm pretty much 98% with SONAR these days.
I also added Tracktion 4 mainly to help a collaborator that was already using Tracktion. I recently upgraded it to version 5, but I only ever launch that to help my partner figure out how to do something.
I continue to keep Reaper up to date, but at license renewal time I may decide to leave it wherever it is.
It IS handy to have alternative DAWs to help troubleshoot VSTs, OS, hardware and such, but honestly SONAR has been pretty dang solid for me for a long time now.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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