Biab 2012

Bummer I bought BIAB 2011 (the Everything PAK) and have not used it yet.

I knew it would be soon. 

$159.  mmmm.  decisions, decisions.

I did the dinky upgrade.

What a marvellous company they are to deal with.  Top notch service, quick and efficient.

call them, MM - they'll do you right, I guarantee it!

On the other hand, I guess it's no more cheating than using EZdrummer grooves...

 
Well, it is actually no more cheating than as a songwriter, going into a professional full production studio and hiring some top notch studio session players and giving them your song arrangement  (chord progression, key, tempo, meter, style, types of instrumentation, etc.) and telling the guys and/or gals......"hey give it your best shot and make her shine".
 
I almost always use the realtracks (which are actual studio recorded audio preformances (not MIDI) of top session players from LA, Nashville, NY, etc..), so essentially, BIAB is my 24/7, always on call studio with some of the finest session players, in the world playing on my songs. I usually create my songs on my acoustic guitar (get the chord structure, key, tempo, meter and vocal melody) and then input that info into BIAB to create my tracks. I'll export the created tracks to separate instrumental audio tracks and import them into my DAW. I do not always end up keeping every BIAB track, as some will work and others not so much. Sometimes, I cut, paste, delete, stretch to fit what I need at the time. Then I'll record additional tracks as needed (vocals and additional intrumentation of my own), do my arranging, mixing and final export to a stereo file (MP3, WMA, CD or whatever I need).
 
I am a songwriter/guitar player/vocalist and a DAW enthusiast and not a full fledged top-notch master studio multi-instrumentalist, so BIAB suits me just fine, working in my modest little home studio. The truth of the matter, is even the top bands/groups/performers & producers, in the world use professional session players, on their records. It is one thing to play live on stage where you can be sloppy and get away with it, quite another to be able to nail perfect performances, many times in isolation, in a studio environment. Also, not everyone is a master of every instrument. That is why there are session players. Here are some of the session cats that I have on call  24/7, whenever inspiration strikes: 
 
http://www.pgmusic.com/realtracks.artists.php?os=win
 
Cheers,
 
Billy Buck

Billy Buck

On the other hand, I guess it's no more cheating than using EZdrummer grooves...

 
Well, it is actually no more cheating than as a songwriter, going into a professional full production studio and hiring some top notch studio session players and giving them your song arrangement

You would need to credit the musicians, though... I'm guessing with BIAB, there's no such obligation?

bapu


Sven,

I would say it should be considered a "moral" obligation to at least mention that BIAB is used (at some level) just as one would with "hired" musicians if, and I mean a big IF, the song is intended to make any kind of money. YMMV.

I'd say there's always a moral obligation to credit musicians and other people involved when presenting your production, no matter if there's money involved or not. Otherwise it's kinda like neglecting to mention that you're playing covers at a concert (well, not quite but still..).  
 
For instance, someone might post in the Song forum like this:
"Here's a song that I did, what do you think"?
 
Maybe I'm naïve or stupid, but I automatically assume that the whole track was written, arranged, performed/programmed, mixed and mastered by the poster unless he or she explicitly states otherwise! Then I give feedback accordingly.
 
Should I not feel pretty foolish for applauding the sensitive and clever performance of a piano player In-A-Box?
 
Sven

Guitarhacker

Sven.... this is a superb song writing tool for me. I easily enter the chords, style and tempo and try different ideas out. If something works, I send it to Real Band where I render audio tracks using the real style samples and export them to wave and into Sonar.  Go to my web site, click the MY MUSIC link and listen to the stuff I write.  All steel guitar, dobro, fiddle, (some) piano, drums and bass are very likely to be Band in the Box tracks rendered in Real Band. 


As far as credits to the musicians..... nope.... I either say it's my studio band or nothing at all.  No one really cares as long as the samples are legit, which BB/RB if licensed to you are legit, and that you own 100% of the rights to the song.... no unsigned work for hires.  BB/RB meet all those requirements. 

Herb, I don't think you've ever hidden the fact that you use BIAB. I respect that and appreciate your excellent work accordingly!
 
Perhaps I'm just bitter that songwriting doesn't come as easy to me as I would like, and so I try to compensate by playing a lot of instruments...
 
When will they release Song-In-A-Box? I'd buy that!

Sven... the thing I really like about BB is when I have no ideas to write something....I can set down and start popping in some chords, try different tempo's, keys, and styles, and sometimes that ends up bring the muse to write. 

Or So I'm Told started like that.  I keep all the ideas that I get and start in a folder called "Song Tank 2011" ...I also have ST10, ST09 as well.  I'll be starting ST12 very soon. That way, if I get an idea, and it dries up, I save it in the BB file (pretty small files in BB) and then later, I can open it up again to work on it later. At times I will delete those files when I open it, and realize...WTF was I thinking? 

Another strategy that you can use is to work with a co-writer to develop those ideas.  I have sent my co-writer just the music that I had worked up in BB and she came back to me a few days later with a pretty good song idea lyrically. We bounced it a few times and it ended up being a pretty good song. 

every now and then I will simply pick a topic and ask her if she wants to write on that topic. I use BB to sketch out the music and let it roll. 


Also.... if you are stuck for original ideas, try doing a cover in BB. I just posted an old Creedence song that I spent 3 days working on in BB. The only tracks left from the original BB rendering was the bass, drums and B-3 organ. I replaced all the other tracks with me on guitar.  That song is up in the songs forum right now. 

For me, BB is a really sweet way to work efficiently and quickly when writing. I work with my acoustic or electric guitar and use the lyric view to write the words while experimenting with the chords in the main view. No more pad and pencil for me..... I do use them but not in this context or at this stage of the writing process. 

I use pencil when my co-writers send me their updated lyrics. Then I cross out the parts I think are not up to par and write in my new ideas. Then it gets converted to the laptop to email back...... 

Even if someone used only BIAB and didn't play any instruments, there's only a limited amount of personal gratification from doing such a thing. They'd be an expert BIAB software user (or a glorified cut & paster) and probably are better off doing tutorials on BIAB. Besides how long can they keep up such a sherade? Even if someone did such a thing, he's really only fooling himself.

Whereas anyone who can play an instrument fairly well to a certain degree, will want some sort of recognition for his "true" abilities as that's the talent he's been gifted with and he can honestly say...."yeah, that's all me....good, bad, or ugly". BIAB is a great tool to use in "enhancing" the talent a musician has and not meant to be used in replacing the actual musician.  

That said, I should actually try & use my BIAB 2011..........     

I'd move it off the front porch.

Just sayin'

bapu


I'd move it off the front porch.

Just sayin'

why?  it looked quite comfy there.

@ Beagle (and others) Just got off the blower with a nice lady at PG Music, and yes she credited my account for what I spent already, and charged the difference for the Ultra Pack Hard Drive!!! WHAT GREAT SERVICE!!! This will be the 3rd HD Pak I purchased from them and really is a convenient way to purchase the product.

Beagle

musicman100


@ Beagle (and others) Just got off the blower with a nice lady at PG Music, and yes she credited my account for what I spent already, and charged the difference for the Ultra Pack Hard Drive!!! WHAT GREAT SERVICE!!! This will be the 3rd HD Pak I purchased from them and really is a convenient way to purchase the product.

I knew they would.  they're a great company and I've seen them do the same thing numerous times.
 
enjoy!

Once I ordered online and chose an upgrade option. They (or their system) saw that I had chosen a more expensive upgrade than I needed based on the version I had and they changed the order to a lower price.