losguy
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/28 18:47:42
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ORIGINAL: mwd
ORIGINAL: rumleymusic ~ Speaking of boycotting cable manufacturers. Has anyone here tried making their own cable? I have been thinking of seeing how well that would work out.
Recently did just that with about 4 billion miles of studio cable. Purchased Canare cable and G&H Connectors. Also used some Neutrik connectors.
It was actually quite therapeutic. Saved a good chunk-o-$$$ and got custom cable lengths, as needed, which turned out much cleaner.
My one tip or trick is to get really good solder. Makes a diff.
Best info I've found is this Chart from Rane to show you any hookup you'll encounter.
Big +1 on all points. I wired my own studio as well. Been making my own cables for decades, and I agree about the therapeutic quality! I'm not sure why, but the whole DIY vibe is really satisfying... when you're done and you know that the sound is coming from something that you created, both materially and musically, it just adds to the whole good feeling. Luthiers must get this feeling multiplied by 1000! Another tip: Get a good iron, like a Weller, and keep the tip clean. If you've never done it before, then it's a good idea to practice on some cheap connectors with some scrap wire. Just google on soldering technique and you'll find the tips that you need. A good supplier of tools and parts is MCM Electronics (http://www.mcminone.com). That chart from Rane is a great reference too.
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Roflcopter
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/28 19:26:47
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I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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losguy
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/29 00:12:05
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A good brand of multicore solder will include rosin flux right in the mix, so no added flux is needed in that case. I prefer the narrower gauges (24 or less) because they melt faster and flow more quickly. That's better for the components and wires that are being connected... less heating. You really shouldn't need more than 30 Watts on the iron, unless it's a mammoth speaker wire connection. Edit: BTW, rolling your own cables and connections is a great way to boycott the Monster!
post edited by losguy - 2007/07/29 00:19:53
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Roflcopter
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/29 05:33:34
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A good brand of multicore solder will include rosin flux right in the mix Yep. Might be an eyeoper to some though, exactly WHY that works so much better.  [late edit for typo]
post edited by Roflcopter - 2007/07/29 17:46:31
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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mwd
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/29 17:23:25
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I wished we had a judicial system that didn't sleep with some of these big corporations like monster cable and Volkswagen.
There should be steadfast copyright laws that followed common protocol and common sense.
Like sure you can trademark or copyright Monster Cable but you have no rights to "monster". Or yes you can trademark Volkswagen. No you can't trademark VW... it's part of the english alphabet, no you can't trademark "bug" it's part of common language but sure if you want to trademark "VW Bug"... go ahead.
It's real simple... if the context existed before you did... then you can't own it.
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yep
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/29 18:16:04
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ORIGINAL: mwd
I wished we had a judicial system that didn't sleep with some of these big corporations like monster cable and Volkswagen...
Well, in fairness to the courts, this particular case is not really one of judicial corruption, per se. In fact, Monster Cable has gone out of its way to *AVOID* taking its own lawsuits to court. These are shakedown cases. The whole idea is that even though these lawsuits don't have a chance of success, the defendents will find it cheaper to "buy" the rights to use the word Monster for a few grand than to actually fight the case and deal with the hassle of proving that they already have the right to use it. So the whole racket actually sidesteps the courts altogether. The "flaw" in the American judicial system that is being exploited here (if there is one), is not corruption, but rather protections of the right to sue. In some countries, if you file a frivilous or wrongful lawsuit against someone else and lose, you may have to pay their legal expenses, plus reimburse the taxpayers for wasting the court's time. In the US it is difficult to punish someone for inappropriate use of the courts in these ways so it is sometimes worthwhile to knowingly file a lawsuit that you know you have no chance of winning in order to basically try and extort a settlement from the defendant, who doesn't want to go to court. Believe it or not, this protection of the right to sue is most often seen as a protection for the little guy, who might be reluctant to seek redress against the wealthy or powerful if losing the suit means he'll have to pay for the defendant's million-dollar lawyers. Cheers.
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mwd
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/29 19:56:06
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Yes you are correct. File a frivolous lawsuit and force someone to travel out-of-state or hire a lawyer in a state they have never even been in to defend themselves or default.
Is most definitely a flaw.
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bitflipper
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/30 11:51:01
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Just googled "boycott monster cable" to see what would pop up. 237,000 references, that's what. Clearly, the movement to boycott this company is picking up steam. This page lists email addresses for the executives of Monster Cable: Monster Greed Labor unions have taken up the cause. Apparently, the company doesn't think any more of their employees than they do of their customers: Justice for Monster Cable Workers
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Roflcopter
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/30 12:40:54
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Saw they also had a youtube vid on that worker page, and then something else caught my eye, so I did a quick search - apparently MC is has been on a extensive promo-trip lately, and they got quite a few big names for the MonsterMusic blah-blah of theirs: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=monster+cable&search= Maybe time for some Artists Awareness Alert on this cr*p. Slash, Kerry King, Santana, Al Jarreau - pretty big names, all helping to sell hot air.
post edited by Roflcopter - 2007/07/30 12:48:25
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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newfuturevintage
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/30 15:57:08
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I've been vehemently anti-monster since using their bulk snake cable I referenced in the other thread. Was always leery of them before as every chunk of their ad-copy I'd seen sounded like snake oil. Also have a couple friends that were 'on the inside'. Some of the tales I had heard were numbing. Joe & Dave's points about monster cables breaking female connectors in guitars were well documented. My understanding at the time (around '00 /'01-ish) was that Ken Smith Basses had a warning on their website that using Monster would void the warranty with respect to the jack, and that Mackie mixers were prone to having the tip connector on their jacks torn out due to improper tapering on the monster cable end. The power strips (around $50 for a sl weber style) would short out if they were dropped. Not a great design for something advertised for stage use. Their rack-mount 'power centers' had non-standard hole spacing and had to be redesigned. We have some of their 'balanced configuration' cabling at work (dot-com leftovers  ). Stereo RCA and composite video bundled together. No shielding on the audio lines carries through to ground. Had also heard their 1st gen of their iPod car-adaptors put out too high a voltage and would smoke the iPods connected to them. Best part of all, their cabling (and probably the remainder of their product line) is Chinese sourced. Yep, for that premium price, it's not even domestically produced. Amazing.
My inner child is an angry drunk.
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fep
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/30 22:04:53
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I've worked for a NYSE traded company that was the victim of several shakedown lawsuits. To add what Yep has said, part of the shakedown is they request outrageous amounts of records and start deposing all the executives. It is a total disruption to the Companies goal of trying to run a profitable business.
Our countries legal system is truly screwed up and it does not favor big business, it favors law firms.
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yep
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/30 22:45:59
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ORIGINAL: fep
I've worked for a NYSE traded company that was the victim of several shakedown lawsuits. To add what Yep has said, part of the shakedown is they request outrageous amounts of records and start deposing all the executives. It is a total disruption to the Companies goal of trying to run a profitable business.
Our countries legal system is truly screwed up and it does not favor big business, it favors law firms.
Also, this kind of thing is certainly not less disruptive to small business than to big. Fep is right on about this-- if you are a large corporation and you are having to dig up thousands of pages of documents and have seven-figure executives travelling and/or spending hours or days in depositions, then it is WAY cheaper to simply pay off the plaintiff to the tune of a few grand than to try and fight them, never mind the massive disruption and expense of having your corporate executives actually appearing in court. If you are a small businees owner, the damage can be just as bad or worse. Very often, *you* are the one who has to physically respond to each and every demand of the opposition counsel. They can have interns and $15/hr paralegals phtotocopy demand letters en masse for outlandish correspondence requests or whatever and you are the person who has to stay up till 3am trying to dig it all up. Again, if they are demanding $1,000 plus 1% of revenues there are probably a lot of people who are paying the protection money. I am not in favor of passing new laws, but I am in favor of spreading the word on all forums that you frequent and among all the people you come into contact with. I think Monster made a mistake and I think they will pay for it. Cheers.
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fep
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/07/31 08:15:57
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There is an infamous attorney that has become a multi-millionaire with strike suits, William Lerach. His last name has actually become a verb as in, "We were Lerached". And the settlements are several million dollars when a large corporation is "Lerached". Lerach has paralegals reviewing stock prices, if your company losses a certain amount of stock value in a short period you'll be Lerached - class action lawsuit for tens of millions making a general claim that you defrauded investors. Then you get outrageous document requests and all the execs start getting deposed as he performs a witch hunt.
We were faced with, settle or bet the company in a jury trial. Remember the Simpson trial? Betting your company in a jury trial is a risky endeavor no matter how favorable your case is. Big business vs. the class that includes poor old grannies doesn't necessarily play well in front of a jury.
I'm sorry about the OT, but this is a topic that hits a nerve. Lerach is totally gaming the legal system and imo the legal system has to change.
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Ognis
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/02 04:40:20
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Boycott Monster Cable
companies being sued by Monster
example of despicable business practices Monster© has not engaged despicable business practices. In fact, Monster© is expanding it's product line all the time, to offer some of the finest products on that market. Monster© Cable, is now so much more than cables. Monster© simply feels the right to preserve the name Monster©, as Monster© has evolved into so much more than the cables that made Monster© famous. Thank you for choosing Monster© products.
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Roflcopter
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/02 05:16:31
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I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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yep
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/02 12:38:24
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ORIGINAL: Ognis
Boycott Monster Cable
companies being sued by Monster
example of despicable business practices
Monster© has not engaged despicable business practices. In fact, Monster© is expanding it's product line all the time, to offer some of the finest products on that market. Monster© Cable, is now so much more than cables. Monster© simply feels the right to preserve the name Monster©, as Monster© has evolved into so much more than the cables that made Monster© famous.
Thank you for choosing Monster© products.
This is a joke, right? Because if Monster truly has not engaged in despicable business practices, then they should really sue whatever company is going around suing people in their name. Cheers.
post edited by yep - 2007/08/02 12:41:57
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Joe Bravo
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/02 12:53:28
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Dave Modisette
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/02 17:41:41
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ORIGINAL: Ognis
Boycott Monster Cable
companies being sued by Monster
example of despicable business practices
Monster© has not engaged despicable business practices. In fact, Monster© is expanding it's product line all the time, to offer some of the finest products on that market. Monster© Cable, is now so much more than cables. Monster© simply feels the right to preserve the name Monster©, as Monster© has evolved into so much more than the cables that made Monster© famous.
Thank you for choosing Monster© products.
I'll buy Cubase first.
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Ognis
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/02 18:05:28
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ORIGINAL: Mod Bod
ORIGINAL: Ognis
Boycott Monster Cable
companies being sued by Monster
example of despicable business practices
Monster© has not engaged despicable business practices. In fact, Monster© is expanding it's product line all the time, to offer some of the finest products on that market. Monster© Cable, is now so much more than cables. Monster© simply feels the right to preserve the name Monster©, as Monster© has evolved into so much more than the cables that made Monster© famous.
Thank you for choosing Monster© products.
I'll buy Cubase first.
The Cables work best with Nuendo anyway 
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Owen
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/02 19:44:57
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If I owned a large company that was sued by Monster Cable, I would file extortion charges against them. There is much evidence on the web for the case.
Instead of filing extensions like Monster Cable does, you try to get it into court.
If there is a lawyer out there looking to get rich on a class action lawsuit, previous victims are easy to find on the net.
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yep
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/02 20:30:34
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I suspect it's only a matter of time before somebody turns the tables on monster, somehow. But filing extortion charges is tough. The courts are the one avenue through which one can legally pursue extortionary schemes, which is exactly what this is. The laws in the US are tough about protecting the right to bring suit. The underlying theory is that the more you make it expensive or risky to sue, the more it will advantage the powerful and wealthy, which overall I think is true (although that may be a price worth paying). If a person could be sent to prison for extortion or forced to pay millions in legal expenses if they file a lawsuit and lose, then a lot of pivotal and important lawsuits would probably never have been filed, and filing a lawsuit would suddenly become a very risky proposition UNLESS you are rich enough to afford mad lawyers and court costs. Therefore the definition and punishments for frivilous lawsuits are pretty narrowly-defined. You could try to make a law that would make it so that only the Moster Cables of the world and not the Joe Averages could be charged with extortion, but I think you'll agree that the more you think about it, the tougher it would be to craft that language. After all, in the eyes of the law the merits of the suit are really determined by whether you won or lost, not whether the judge thinks it was "fair." Please note that I'm not saying that the current system is *good,* nor defending it, just pointing out some unintended consequences. Other countries do it somewhat differently. I think the best thing to do is to spread the word, ESPECIALLY in music stores. Most of the salespeople have no idea this going on, and a lot of them push monster cable because, well, monster pays them to do so. If you tell them what's up a lot of them will actually change their tune. Music store employees sometimes have a more anti-corporate streak than the general population. Besides, wouldn't it be kind of cooler to take down Monster WITHOUT suing? Cheers.
post edited by yep - 2007/08/02 20:46:42
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Roflcopter
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/03 03:16:22
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Therefore the definition and punishments for frivilous lawsuits are pretty narrowly-defined. You could include a proviso in the law that states that extensions are automatically denied if the plaintiff is over a 100 or 1000 times the size economically as the defendant, or has a dedicated legal staff (!), where the defendant has not.
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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bitflipper
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/03 18:05:27
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If I owned a large company that was sued by Monster Cable, I would file extortion charges against them. There is much evidence on the web for the case. The way the standard trademark/patent/copyright infringement shakedown works is you start by attacking some small-time mom & pops who couldn't possibly fight back. Each little "win" adds to a cumulative legal precedent that you can eventually take to court and take on one of the big guys. Their deep pockets won't help much when you can demonstrate to the judge that you already have a couple dozen identical judgments in your favor. You can't call it extortion after multiple courts have already given their legal blessing. The only way to battle these jerks is through a grassroots movement. It really does work, and there's nothing they can do to stop us from expressing opinions. So express at every opportunity, including loudly during your next trip to Guitar Center.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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fep
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/04 09:56:12
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On my wish list at musiciansfriend sits a pair of Monster cables 3' patch cables (unbalanced) to add a couple more channels from my mixer to my soundcard breakout box. Scratch that idea as I'm now a full fledge member of the boycott Monster cable movement. I wish I had the fortitude to boycott any business that sells Monster cables but I'm too much of a music equipment junky to pull that off. I kind of like the idea of making my own cables. I guess I'll start my internet search of a supplier of the equipment and materials needed. Cheers
post edited by fep - 2007/08/04 10:05:37
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Roflcopter
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/04 10:14:51
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Start a company called Cable Inc., deposit the word cable as a brandname/trademark, grant everyone the right to use it, except Monster Cable Inc., and sue them for infringement? If they can do it?
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/04 16:06:56
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the legal system will always benefit people with more money or an inordinate amount of time on their hands. you all may or may not be aware of the eolas lawsuit, basically a shell corporation that successfully sued microsoft (or whatever the term is) over a patent they filed which essentially gives them the rights to anything on the internet considered "rich content." in that case, the little guy took a chunk out of the big guy, although as with most patent cases i think this one was a crock, since rich content was around before eolas filed their patent, but i digress...
in order to make justice available in civil court, the system is biased toward the plantiff. in order to help ensure due process, the criminal court is biased toward the defendant (the 10 to 1 or 100 to 1 rule - that 100 criminals go free before 1 innocent person is convicted).
what's missing are judges who have the ability, guts or intelligence to dismiss stupid cases out of hand before they get anywhere. but that doesn't fly with the legal purists and special interest groups.
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losguy
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/05 09:48:32
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ORIGINAL: Roflcopter
Therefore the definition and punishments for frivilous lawsuits are pretty narrowly-defined.
You could include a proviso in the law that states that extensions are automatically denied if the plaintiff is over a 100 or 1000 times the size economically as the defendant, or has a dedicated legal staff (!), where the defendant has not.
The same thought occurred to me. Just come up with a workable way to define size, like net worth of the corporation, number of employees, annual sales volume, or some formula accounting for all three factors.
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Roflcopter
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/05 10:48:17
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The same thought occurred to me. Just come up with a workable way to define size, like net worth of the corporation, number of employees, annual sales volume, or some formula accounting for all three factors. Yup. I think MC is only the tip of the iceberg in such gaming the system. A presidentially appointed staff of ex-judges could easily take store of all such 'gaming' issues, put up advise for stopgap measures, effect these pro tem per presidential decree, and send it off to the respective Houses. As a matter of fact, any country should have such a watch-dog committee, with enough teeth to match their bark. 
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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krizrox
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/05 10:59:31
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I have a feeling if you Googled McDonalds you'd find similar business practices. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald%27s_legal_cases I've decided to get to the bottom of this. I will go to Monster Cable and ask them to respond to these accusations. As soon as I hear back from them, I will let you know what is going on. If that doesn't work, I will change my name to Monster Recording and see how long it takes them to sue me. Don't try to thank me.
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
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Joe Bravo
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RE: Boycott Monster Cable
2007/08/05 14:47:35
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nevadaappeal.com article - May 16, 2000
What's in a name? Bucks
Our View It seems to us - who have no claim to legal expertise - that Carson City's Convention and Visitors Bureau needs to fight to use Mark Twain's name in its advertising. A company called CMG Worldwide is trying to squeeze $1,500 out of the bureau for its past use of Twain in advertising material. The company, which has a contract with the Mark Twain Foundation Trust, is based in Indiana, where trademarks are recognized for 100 years after the person's death. But we're operating in Nevada, which recognizes a trademark for only 50 years. How a state law in Indiana can tell a Nevada visitors bureau what to do is something, we guess, that lawyers need to figure out. Nevertheless, as we've pointed out before, there are numerous places named for Twain all over America - including a Lyon County town and a Carson City school. Isn't it a historical fact that Twain worked and wrote here. What's the visitors bureau supposed to do, word its advertisement something like: "Come visit the Comstock, where a really, really famous American writer whose name rhymes with Dark Train once worked?" If the bureau settles with CMG Worldwide for past use of the name, it will be admitting that it did something wrong and will give the company leverage to forbid use of Twain's name in the future. That may be true in Indiana, but it's not true in Nevada. Of course, the issue isn't over Twain or his writing or his image. It's over the money the company stands to collect from licensing. Without some kind of legal challenge, the visitors bureau won't have much of a leg to stand on if it wants to negotiate a deal. Twain himself was a fairly ingenious self-promoter, so it doesn't surprise us that someone is profitting from his name nearly 90 years after his death. Perhaps the visitors bureau can come up with a clever way around the Indiana law. For example, Carson City is actually home to Orion Clemens, whose brother, Sam, became a really, really famous writer whose pen name rhymes with Dark Train ....
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