Building a poor-man's computer for MC5/SONAR

well, first let me say that you shouldn't trust sales people at samash.

2nd let me say that no MIDI controller by itself will give you low latency.  the controller is never the reason for the latency.

3rd - yes, your laptop computer is a little low on resources.  but it's not the main problem.

4th - you should always come here and ask advice before spending money!  we can't tell you exactly what to do, and we can't guarantee results.  but we can help steer you in the right direction.

latency is 90% due to your soundcard and its drivers.  while your CPU speed, RAM, operating system, hard drive speed and a few other minor things is the other 10%.  spending money on a new soundcard will be the better investment for you.

my advice to you is to get a soundcard FIRST, then if you're still having problems, THEN consider upgrading your computer.

check my website for soundcard recommendations.  you'll need either a USB or Firewire soundcard for the laptop and only firewire IF you have firewire ports on the laptop - all laptops should have USB.

Thanks Beagle & Robomusic! I have some reading/research/testing to do!
Beagle: to your point #4 - I'm glad I checked here 1st as I didn't get a tremendous feeling of confidence from the samash guy.
I'll update this thread when I have more questions...

No need to be sorry :)

Let us know how you get on once you get the tweeks done and the Dpc You should see a difference maybe not night and day but at least something to keep you going untill you get a new computer

Just to warn you though even a new computer would still need to be tweeked for audio

One thing at a time though and lets just get you recording for now :)

Norrie

Beagle


I wouldn't rule out a new computer - your laptop is pretty far on the low end.  but you might be able to work with a project with a few tracks that aren't softsynth or FX heavy.  but the soundcard should be the first thing you go for andworry about the next step after taht.

Agreed and you dont have to go over board on a good sound card if say what you would like to record how many tracks at once I am sure Beagle could offer great advice on whats best for you :)

I know very little about any interfaces other than my own I am afraid and even that I am learning

Norrie

Ok - Norrie: I downloaded the latency test and followed those suggestions as well as the tweaks from the other link. Disabling some of the drivers etc improved the results of the latency test so that it said "This machine should be able to handle real-time streaming of audio and/or video data without drop-outs" but I was still having a latency problem once I started MC5 and my keyboard. I think it helped a little, but not enough to allow for smooth recording. (I could mute all tracks but the one I'm currently recording and then try to sync them up after by just recording to a click track-by-track, but I prefer to hear the other tracks I've recorded so I can get a better "feel" for how they sound together as I'm recording).

Beagle, I read through some of the recommendations and am trying to decide between the following 3 USB sound cards:

1) EMU 0404USB - seems to come with all the software (incl. an upgrade to SONAR?)
2) Focusrite Saffire USB - I think I read another person on this forum uses this and like it?
3) Cakewalk UA-25Ex - only deterrent is that it's not sold at Sam Ash (I'm only stuck on this store b/c my wife bought me a gift card for Christmas)

In looking over your chart, I realize that I'm quite an amateur and don't even really understand what all the differences imply. I doubt I'm going to be doing any "full band" recordings even for a while. Not sure I understand the Digital I/O (exc. MIDI) vs. MIDI I/O or how many analog outputs I need or what types of inputs. Also, the EMU only has Mic/Instr Input and the other two have Mic/Instr/Line Input - what does that indicate? They all have Phantom power and I've heard that I should have that. They all work on Vista. For the most part right now and into the foreseeable future it will probably be just me on vocals and either a guitar or keyboard - maybe one or two other musicians down the road...

Any suggestions? 

http://www.samash.com/p/Cakewalk_UA1G%20USB%20Audio%20Interface_-49954250
 
What kind of microphone do you have?
 
Correction: my brother doesn't have the 0404, but the software is the same as the 0404's software.

4tlomusic


Ok - Norrie: I downloaded the latency test and followed those suggestions as well as the tweaks from the other link. Disabling some of the drivers etc improved the results of the latency test so that it said "This machine should be able to handle real-time streaming of audio and/or video data without drop-outs" but I was still having a latency problem once I started MC5 and my keyboard. I think it helped a little, but not enough to allow for smooth recording. (I could mute all tracks but the one I'm currently recording and then try to sync them up after by just recording to a click track-by-track, but I prefer to hear the other tracks I've recorded so I can get a better "feel" for how they sound together as I'm recording).

Beagle, I read through some of the recommendations and am trying to decide between the following 3 USB sound cards:

1) EMU 0404USB - seems to come with all the software (incl. an upgrade to SONAR?)
2) Focusrite Saffire USB - I think I read another person on this forum uses this and like it?
3) Cakewalk UA-25Ex - only deterrent is that it's not sold at Sam Ash (I'm only stuck on this store b/c my wife bought me a gift card for Christmas)

In looking over your chart, I realize that I'm quite an amateur and don't even really understand what all the differences imply. I doubt I'm going to be doing any "full band" recordings even for a while. Not sure I understand the Digital I/O (exc. MIDI) vs. MIDI I/O or how many analog outputs I need or what types of inputs. Also, the EMU only has Mic/Instr Input and the other two have Mic/Instr/Line Input - what does that indicate? They all have Phantom power and I've heard that I should have that. They all work on Vista. For the most part right now and into the foreseeable future it will probably be just me on vocals and either a guitar or keyboard - maybe one or two other musicians down the road...

Any suggestions? 

Glad you at least got the latncy down to handle real time audio thats a god start :)

One thing I forgot to ask was what audio Drivers are you useing at the moment ?

I personaly dont see anything wrong with the UA-25Ex a friend of mine is actualy just about to buy one to start out his first home setup and I had thought about buying one for on the road with a laptop.

It gives you 2 inputs and a midi in and out and built in compressor, Main Monitors outs and Sub outs ( second monitors if you want them) headfone socket on the fronts handy aswell. It has digital in puts so you could add a bit of out board gear at a later date

I would go for itif you have the coucher and can afford it.

Basicaly makeing it nice and easy to understand with this one you could record for instance One Mic and one guitar and one midi device all at the same time ( if your computer can handle it ) OR 2 mics or2 guitars or  one guitar one bass any one of the above on its own aswell. Makeing a lot of cobintations but no more than 2 things plus one midi instrument at a time.

Only you will know if thats enough inputs for you :)

Looks like a good bit of kit and If you dont think you will be recording any more than the 3 things mentioned above at once I would go for it and if you have a gift card thats a plus:).    (cant promiss how your laptop willl like it though )

THe other 2 you mentioned will do the same job as the Cakewalk UA-25Ex but personaly that would be my choice :)I love anything made by Roland Cakewalk so I dont think you would be disapointed in the unit its self. ( but you may still need that computer )

Phantom power is for when a mic needs a power source to use it Mics Like condencers for instance use it where as a good old SM58 wouldnt. Its good to have the fantom power though just incase you need it for a mic at some point.

But the sound card would be the next step to take and will be the only way to find out. Then If worst case you would build a New desk top and what Robo Musi said about geting one built is a great starting point

Go for what you can aford at the time to get you started you can always add more ram and hard drive space at a later date so always make sure you have room on your mother board to upgrade!!!!

That type of thing we can talk about after you get an interface 

Norrie

If you want to use samash gift card then get something there!  the cakewalk unit is good, but certainly use the gift card on something because the others are just as good.  either the 0404USb or the focusrite usb will do well.  not sure which one I'd choose over the other.

you don't have to worry about digital I/O unless you know you need it! 

57Gregy


The link I provided above (post #12) is for a different device I see. The UA you mentioned isn't on the Sam Ash or Guitar Center web sites. It is on Musician's Friend, though, but you can't use your SA gift card there.
Ask the folks at Sam Ash; maybe they will order it for you. Or like Beagle wrote, buy something they have if you want to take it home today.
I would get something with XLR input(s) for mic, 1/4" input for guitar (Hi Z) or mic (some newer devices have 'combo' XLR/1/4" inputs for both mic and guitar), MIDI in/out, RCA Line in/out, phantom power just in case you want to upgrade your mic some day, USB, and good ASIO drivers, but WDM can work well, too.

+1

All of the above interfaces mentioned by beagle will do all that has been said above :)

The Saffire USB looks like a good device. Performance-wise, it's similar to my Saffire and has the same effects suite (probably updated). Plus it's $200 less than what mine cost.
It doesn't have SONAR LE, but it has Ableton Lite, digital audio workstation (DAW) software similar to MC. Mine came with Cubase, which I never even installed. I see there is an update/patch on the Focusrite site in case the Saffire ASIO driver doesn't load properly, so that's good.

Ok - at the risk of revealing just how illiterate I am when it come to computers and recording, I googled images of firewire ports and I think my laptop might have one after all - some of the google pics look like one of my laptop's ports, but my laptop manual says it's a 1394 port for connecting an optional IEEE 1394 or 1394a device (?)

Google image: http://axiolearning.org/s...c/laptop-side-firewire
My laptop side view/manual: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00765305.pdf (look at number 9)

Does this change things? Should I really be considering a Firewire external audio interface?

Yes, 1394 is a FireWire port.
But consider USB 2.0 anyway. I have a FireWire interface and I went to Best Buy a few weeks ago to get a new computer; they didn't have a single one with a FireWire port. USB is ubiquitous, Bubba.

So we're back to USB interfaces and I talked with samash and they can order the Cakewalk interface. I think I'll get this one, but my last question is to do with the cables I'll need. My keyboard only has USB for midi-out. Is this going to be a problem to run my keyboard to the interface and then from the interface to my laptop's USB ports? I've been using a USB-USB cable from my keyboard to my laptop up until now, but I don't think I'll be able to use this cable for the new set-up. Are there just basic cables that I'll be able to buy from samash or wherever? (I just want to make sure that everything will work as planned before dropping $200!)

If you have enough USB ports, plug your keyboard in one. The MIDI jacks on the interface are just for convenience; you're not required to connect there.
I've never heard of a USB-to-MIDI cable. Use the MIDI ports on the interface later if you add another keyboard or a drum machine.

Just thought I'd let you know: SamAshMusic agree to order the Cakewalk UA-25EX for me and even price-matched the best price I could find online! I'm waiting for it to arrive - should be here in the next couple of weeks!