jsaras


I know that this is a Sonar forum, but Reason's ReGroove Mixer is awesome for loosening up step sequenced material of any kind.  It allows you to have 8 different "groove" sources loaded into the project, and any MIDI track can be non-destructively assigned to any one of those 8 slots. Each of those slots has a fader that determines how much of the groove quantize you want to apply.  Since you can hear the adjustments you are making in real-time, it makes it easy to dial in the right amount of sloppiness for each element you are working with. 

Sonar's groove quantize feature feels very clumsy by comparison.  This is a feature that they should definitely borrow from the folks at Propellerhead.

Jsaras:
I'm glad you like Reason ... but, IIRC, isn't it still 32bit like everything else Rx2. 
 
3 Reasons not to purchase Reason:
1) Ridiculously expensive
2) 32 bit obsolescence (yeh, Reason is old) ... heck Sonar has a 'workable' Rex-Beatscape.
3) ... with so many cheaper better professional grooves out there than Reason's programs and samples ... re-inventing the Rex wheel will only work for the devout Rex-artists.
 
Ironically, Reason-Beatz Meisters are probably selling the very grooves I will purchase. 
 
But most of us here are producer-singers who need to select the best-of-the-best beatz for your/my time and buck.  That said, Jsaras, you may still convince me to buy reason.
 
Note: I did try working with the Rex files of purchasable beatz and realized that the splicings have their tempo-limits as the grooves get better.

Reason may be 32 bit only, but it's sequencer environment is still my favorite.  It has a feel factor that Sonar lacks.  Version 5 has Kong, which is one of the coolest drum synths ever.  Thor is as good an analog synth as you'll find anywhere and the new Octo-Rex is pretty dang cool.

One method of building human feel into prv beats is to extract the groove from an inspiring and groovy track using audiosnap, and then make it your own.  This is also a good exercise that enables you to see the subtle timing shifts that go into making a groove groove if you know what I mean.

jamesyoyo

 

May I strongly and respectfully disagree with your disagreement? 

There are literally hundreds of thousands of midi drum loops out there for free/purchase. One of them has to be close enough to what you are hearing in your head. Tweak that one. Another thing with pre-made loops is that while auditioning several to find the  right beat, one comes on that totally changes what you were thinking. Those happy accidents are a lot harder to come when  you are starting from scratch. 

To each his own, I guess. 

And how much time are you going to spend sifting through those thousands of loops to find one that's close to what you want?  Compare that to how long it would take to create something that you can call your own.  For me the choice is easy. 

Well, if you are unfamiliar with those loops, I guess quite a long time. However, with search functions available in some programs like Addictive Drums, it takes a few minutes to audition a REAL professional drummer's take on Punk, Ska, Metal, with all the velocity and timing nuances, as opposed to tapping out some rudimentary stuff. Tweaking a close enough one allows yout o maintain a real feel, and get what you want as well. But that is just me, a guy who's been doing midi drum programming for 25 years. Maybe I am sick of it! ;)

"Using midi files played by a real drummer, which I can edit if I choose is basically the same thing, IMO. "


But isn't that exactly what I am doing?

 :-)

I'm a real drummer with a fully equipped acoustic kit in a place where it can be played at any time of day.... I also have a small Edrum kit... but I also write from scratch in PRV so quickly that it seems to me to be the most efficient way to move forward from a sketch to a production.

best regards,
mike

 I just bought some midi loops and found a few that fit my song.I had a beat I made up that I spent alot of time with learning how to edit velocities,playing ahead of and behind the beat,my biggest problem was getting the hihat right.Through ALOT of reading and ALOT experimenting I've kind of answered my own question.As soos as I can,I'm going to buy a set of hihats (lol).

Another practitioner of hand-made from-scratch MIDI drum tracks here. Trying to make my drums sound un-machinelike has always been my first priority. This is an old thread and an old topic, but it's worthy of resuscitation from time to time!

First of all, never succumb to the temptation to use an automated "humanize" algorithm. They merely add randomness to timing and velocity. Human timing and velocity may indeed be inconsistent, but they are not random. "Humanizing" just ends up making the part sound sloppy, not human. And it never helps the song's groove.

Making timing more human is difficult, nearly impossible. I've been programming the PRV for a quarter century and I still cannot tell if a drum hit is in the "right" place by just looking at it. What looks right may sound wrong and vice versa.

There is only one way to make timing variances sound natural, and that is to play them in real time on a keyboard, on keyboard trigger pads, or on drum pads. And even that's challenging if you're not a drummer.

If you are a keyboard player, this is the data entry tool you want. Or, if you have the money, its big brother. It's a drum trigger you play with your fingers and hands, making the most of a keyboard player's strengths, namely fast, agile fingers. I don't have one of these - yet - but I've played them both and I am convinced that this is the path to faux-drum nirvana for keyboardists. (And in the hands of a real drummer they are amazing, too!)

But if you're stuck editing a boring pattern in the PRV, there are still things you can do to make it sound less like a machine. My favorite tricks involve velocity, ghost hits, switching up instruments and varying the pattern itself.

You can improve a hi-hat part dramatically by merely putting in velocity accents. If your drum synth features multiple hi-hat openings, use them. Switch from closed to 25% open, even if for one note in the middle of the measure.  Use an open hat on every third downbeat. Anything to avoid the dreaded machine-gun effect!

Don't forget about hi-hat crescendos, a time-honored rock technique. Use an open or semi-open hat sample and increase the velocity from below-normal to above normal over the course of a measure or two.

With rides, don't forget the bell and hit it for accents or even randomly pepper the track with bell hits. Load up two different ride cymbals that sound very similar, pan them identically and then randomly switch between them in the track.

On a good snare sample the tone will change a lot with velocity. Just bringing the velocity down for the verse and up for the chorus adds interest. Ghost hits - love 'em (on the kick, too). And don't forget the sidestick, as a substitute during quiet passages, as an accent, or layered over the main snare sound.

A good drum track, real or fake, strikes a genre-appropriate balance between repetition and unpredictability. If it's too varied, listeners will have a hard time grasping the groove. Too predictable, and listeners will get bored with it. The ideal is to give the listener a steady drumbeat to fall into sync with and then surprise them periodically.

I completely agree about velocity being the primary thing to focus on.

It is also worth noting that off-beats tend to sound louder than they really are and should be reduced accordingly.