Ahhhh the safety of the internet.   It's really easy to be an arse on the net, and to say and do things you would never consider doing or saying in person......likely because someone would deck you.


In real life, as a kid growing in in New Jersey, there was one kid in particular who decided I would be fun to pick on. Being the kind and gentle soul that I am, I put up with and ignored to the best of my ability, this other kid's taunts. 

One day, I simply had enough and told him so. We were wrestling on my front lawn when this occurred. He stood up and so did I. Then he said "Oh yeah?" and hit me upside my head. I guess he figured that hit would go unanswered. But I lit into him with a fury that he was totally not expecting. 

I tackled him, took him down,  head-locked him with one arm and began introducing my fist to his face repeatedly. My little brother tried to pull me off. My mom and dad heard the commotion and my brother and his friends were screaming for me to let the kid go. My dad pulled me up and off of the kid, who ran for his bike as fast as he could. When he hit the seat, poo shot down his leg out of the shorts. He had crapped himself I guess from fear. 

Anyway, he left me alone, crossing the street and turning around when he saw me coming to avoid me. All I wanted was to be left alone. My dad complimented me on the way I handled that kid. My mom scolded me for fighting, but I think she was a little bit proud too because she didn't punish me at all. 

Unfortunately, he didn't learn this lesson completely. I guess it was 3 or 4 years later when he came back at me again needing a second lesson and reminder. That one ended pretty much the same way. He got the worst of it that night.  And again he avoided me for the longest time after that. We moved out of the neighborhood about a year later so I didn't ever see him again. 

I try to be as peaceable as possible as far as it concerns me. I never start a fight, but once someone else starts it,  I will do everything in my power to end one as quickly as possible. 

On the net, you generally can not handle it like that... so unfortunate indeed. So the best thing is to avoid the bullies and trolls. 


Here on the net or in the forum..... the best way to avoid getting poo on your shoes is to avoid stepping in it in the first place..... in other words, don't comment in the thread, and thereby invite hostile commentary. 

...says one of the "Glass Half-Full" guys...

:)

The Kiosk Project


Just a quick post to say I am really enjoying the intelligence and respect for differing opinions shown in this thread. Kudos to one and all.

It says something for the strength of the discussion so far that I agree with viewpoints from both sides of the debate (simplistically put for brevity) and some really good points have been made. 

No one should try to own or claim the streets (aka) The Coffee House, equally, there has to be room in this crazy world for a little madcap relief from the serious stuff, but not to let that spread into or push the serious, or thought provoking stuff off the page, but to co-exist alongside it.

I think self discipline and self-policing the forum is the right way to go (although I balk at using the term 'policing' it seems appropriate if done solely by the participants and not by the Mods / Cakewalk staff)

I believe, after the grim turn the forum took over the weekend (which was brewing for some time) that we are collectively entering a period of self-examination. This shows just what a vibrant community we have here, worth preserving and nurturing at some effort from us all.

I believe this debate will stay alive for a few days yet, and when it fades away under natural causes we may well have reached a collective consensus for the 'new, improved' Coffee House...

Garry Kiosk

Now, you see, if I was eloquent like that, I would not need flame proof-underwear.

bapu

{Note to self} Be a whole lot nice to Herb.

Shh!

I think this is the kind of comment they are referring to. Hard to tell cause nobody has really been specific about exactly who or what the problem is, so I'm just guessing.

I'm so glad to see though that since the Am's and Ja's have stopped, that we now have room for such stimulating music related conversation such as aliens and some Italian guy's hair.

It's so much better now.

Good times. Good times.

foxwolfen

We could argue that "if a person does not like their playmates, then get out of the sandbox"... but the reality is... its not the playmate's sand box. This is what makes it gang like. Gangs think they own the streets they hang out on too. They don't.  

I would say that everyone owns the sandbox. Any forum is a collaborative effort between the people who frequent it (and the host/mods). 

If it looks like a gang to someone, it may be because they are in some ways out of step with the others. There's a difference between different folks just having different tastes on one hand and people actively and intentionally excluding people on the other. I don't see the exclusionary behavior here.

And I'm not talking about bad behavior here, but if you are trying to force the sandbox to accommodate your personal vision, aren't you the one being the bully? Is anyone telling you you must change your ways or else you're not welcome here? I may be wrong, but I don't see that. Maybe certain opinions are treated as "unwelcome to the group", but that's the very nature of holding a minority opinion.

[serious]

Personally I now feel like I am not allowed to post freely what I want to because of all of the negative comments regarding the "inane" posts (i.e. "Am" and "Ja") and the comments regarding "posting for the sake of post count" or "look at me."

Maybe it's just a matter of "attitude" or something, but I've never thought of my posts as being self-centered or made just to draw attention to myself.  I've never thought there was any harm in just posting inane posts as long as the TOS wasn't violated.  but now there are people I respect in the forum who are saying we should be self-policing our posts and stop the inane chatter and stop the posting for the sake of increasing post count.

so I now feel like I have to refrain from posting something where I didn't feel that way before even tho what I would have posted wasn't a violation of anyone's rights, wasn't an attack on anyone, wasn't rude or mean or disrespectful nor was it a violation of the TOS, yet I feel like I'm not allowed to post it.

so - bottom line is that I currently feel like I'm not as welcome as I used to be.

just my thoughts and feelings on the current state of this forum.

Beagle

[serious]

Personally I now feel like I am not allowed to post freely what I want to because of all of the negative comments regarding the "inane" posts (i.e. "Am" and "Ja") and the comments regarding "posting for the sake of post count" or "look at me."

Maybe it's just a matter of "attitude" or something, but I've never thought of my posts as being self-centered or made just to draw attention to myself.  I've never thought there was any harm in just posting inane posts as long as the TOS wasn't violated.  but now there are people I respect in the forum who are saying we should be self-policing our posts and stop the inane chatter and stop the posting for the sake of increasing post count.

so I now feel like I have to refrain from posting something where I didn't feel that way before even tho what I would have posted wasn't a violation of anyone's rights, wasn't an attack on anyone, wasn't rude or mean or disrespectful nor was it a violation of the TOS, yet I feel like I'm not allowed to post it.

so - bottom line is that I currently feel like I'm not as welcome as I used to be.

just my thoughts and feelings on the current state of this forum.

That's exactly how I feel.

Unfortunately, like with the Jeff PM, the cat's out of the bag now. It's time to move on from this place because it's never going to be the same again.

Beagle


[serious]

Personally I now feel like I am not allowed to post freely what I want to because of all of the negative comments regarding the "inane" posts (i.e. "Am" and "Ja") and the comments regarding "posting for the sake of post count" or "look at me."

Maybe it's just a matter of "attitude" or something, but I've never thought of my posts as being self-centered or made just to draw attention to myself.  I've never thought there was any harm in just posting inane posts as long as the TOS wasn't violated.  but now there are people I respect in the forum who are saying we should be self-policing our posts and stop the inane chatter and stop the posting for the sake of increasing post count.

so I now feel like I have to refrain from posting something where I didn't feel that way before even tho what I would have posted wasn't a violation of anyone's rights, wasn't an attack on anyone, wasn't rude or mean or disrespectful nor was it a violation of the TOS, yet I feel like I'm not allowed to post it.

so - bottom line is that I currently feel like I'm not as welcome as I used to be.

just my thoughts and feelings on the current state of this forum.

Ouch ! 


<but puts the facts straight>

As I was the one that referred to 'self-policing' Beag, I feel honour bound to post a reply to you. What I genuinely meant (and it does read correctly in context, I checked back) was the COLLECTIVE self-policing that prevents the Coffee House from becoming the antithesis of all we would want it to be - collectively. 


Of course, as in any community / club / bar - virtual or otherwise, disruptive types appear from time to time, some settle down, other become (self) destructive. However for the rest of us, I believe we want a broad church here, with everyone being allowed to be absolutely, totally themselves. I am not going to embarrass you by going overboard telling you how much entertainment and amusement, as well as intelligent insight, in equal measure, you have given to me over the last few years.

I totally stand by my previous post on this thread, but I would be upset if it was taken the wrong way by a forum buddy I totally respect.


Garry

For the record, I would rather leave the sand box to you guys, than have you guys leave the sand box. 

Perhaps I misjudged how important the CH being like this is to a few of you. I will find my place within one or two of the other forums, and participate here when something catches my attention. Hopefully it will not be only the bad stuff like the fights of recent note.

foxwolfen


For the record, I would rather leave the sand box to you guys, than have you guys leave the sand box. 

Perhaps I misjudged how important the CH being like this is to a few of you. I will find my place within one or two of the other forums, and participate here when something catches my attention. Hopefully it will not be only the bad stuff like the fights of recent note.

Yes, but that's precisely what many of us don't want to happen Shad. A broad diversity of views, humour and insight from forum members old and new are what keeps a place like this alive and interesting for us. If you represent a trend, the forum would disappear into a cyberspace version of a black hole.

OK, let's for argument's sake say that I'm the biggest offender everyone is sighting. DUH!

What is my biggest crime? That I post a lot? That it's drivel? That my sense of humor is 'off' from the norm? That it seems (to you and possibly others) that I 'own' the CH? That I recycle tedious "in jokes"?

Or that I'm wasting space for more important thought provoking topics like:
The aged old (and tiring to me) debate about life on another planet? 
Or whether someone wants to know who's going to see their favorite group?
Or whether the snow is high or low in a particular ski area?
Or a particular person's studio or house remodel is going well?
Or failed attempts to discuss politics and religion?

Many many topics stay on page one because people are interested and keep the topic alive. And who says that anyone must only look to page one for interesting topics? Is everyone not allowed to look at page two or beyond to re-raise "important" topics? FWIW, I've seen some pretty heavy topics stay on page one for days at a time regardless of the number of inane posts.

OK, so I like to mashup titles, over use a tired (to some) catchphrases, inject a "play on words" titles of previously posted threads. IOW, I have too much fun amusing myself (seems to be the opinion of some).

Some have suggested that we should be like we are in real life. I believe I am to the extent possible that it can be done in print vs. in person. If that raises doubts about whether you would like to meet me in person, so be it.

I was "serious" as a heart attack until I was 49 years old and it got me into some serious trouble. I've become a more fun loving person since then and now to be "told" (directly or indirectly) that my kind of humor is just too much does somewhat reek of bullying, IMHO.

Taken as constructive criticism (from my mate Steve) I have acknowledged that my use of the Am's, Ja's, Ya's and "play on words" mashup titles are something that I will make every effort to curtail. But, in all honestly, on reflection, I feel like I'm being told by this community "it's OK to do what you do, but just not so much". IOW, be who you are but not unless you do it the way we want.

This is not a Bobby goodbye post. Really.

I have serious issues going on in my life. Do I bring them here? Not really. Why? Because I (at least before a few days ago) have thought this was a place where I could let those issues set for a while, have some fun and not be judged.

But <edit: I feel like> I am being judged and I would be lying if I said it does not affect me.

Thanks for letting me share.

foxwolfen


For the record, I would rather leave the sand box to you guys, than have you guys leave the sand box. 

Perhaps I misjudged how important the CH being like this is to a few of you. I will find my place within one or two of the other forums, and participate here when something catches my attention. Hopefully it will not be only the bad stuff like the fights of recent note.

The Kiosk Project

Beagle


[serious]

Personally I now feel like I am not allowed to post freely what I want to because of all of the negative comments regarding the "inane" posts (i.e. "Am" and "Ja") and the comments regarding "posting for the sake of post count" or "look at me."

Maybe it's just a matter of "attitude" or something, but I've never thought of my posts as being self-centered or made just to draw attention to myself.  I've never thought there was any harm in just posting inane posts as long as the TOS wasn't violated.  but now there are people I respect in the forum who are saying we should be self-policing our posts and stop the inane chatter and stop the posting for the sake of increasing post count.

so I now feel like I have to refrain from posting something where I didn't feel that way before even tho what I would have posted wasn't a violation of anyone's rights, wasn't an attack on anyone, wasn't rude or mean or disrespectful nor was it a violation of the TOS, yet I feel like I'm not allowed to post it.

so - bottom line is that I currently feel like I'm not as welcome as I used to be.

just my thoughts and feelings on the current state of this forum.

Ouch ! 


<but puts the facts straight>

As I was the one that referred to 'self-policing' Beag, I feel honour bound to post a reply to you. What I genuinely meant (and it does read correctly in context, I checked back) was the COLLECTIVE self-policing that prevents the Coffee House from becoming the antithesis of all we would want it to be - collectively. 


Of course, as in any community / club / bar - virtual or otherwise, disruptive types appear from time to time, some settle down, other become (self) destructive. However for the rest of us, I believe we want a broad church here, with everyone being allowed to be absolutely, totally themselves. I am not going to embarrass you by going overboard telling you how much entertainment and amusement, as well as intelligent insight, in equal measure, you have given to me over the last few years.

I totally stand by my previous post on this thread, but I would be upset if it was taken the wrong way by a forum buddy I totally respect.


Garry

This didn't start with either of you, tho.  The first slap of coldness I felt was from Strummy's post regarding how he felt that John was right and that there is too much inane nonsense going on.  I had no idea that anyone felt that way besides John and some of his followers in the X1 forum who only come to the CH to belittle and berate those who post here.
 
I respect Steve and his opinion very much and while I said to him in that thread that I disagree with him, I understand what he's talking about.  so since then I've been thinking about what he said, then others of you have reiterrated the point with terms like "self-policing" and other similar posts. 
 
I do not want this place to be somewhere that others feel unwelcome.  I thought that was their problem, not mine (as I told strummy) because they didn't try to come join us, they just assumed we were cliquish and didn't want them here.  but since Strummy's post there have been several other members posting similar comments regarding "less use of "Ja" and "Am" and even references to not posting all the time about "becan." 
 
there are also numerous posts regarding "posting for the sake of post count."  if that's not directed specifically at bapu and myself then I don't know who it would be directed to?
 
so yes, I do feel like I am not free to post what I want.  but I guess that's OK.  the forum is a community and if they community doesn't want it then C'est la vie.
 
 

FastBikerBoy

I was "serious" as a heart attack until I was 49 years old and it got me into some serious trouble.

I was serious once, I was about 17 IIRC lasted all of 2 hours and I've never bothered since. Here's a thought provoking question. When you're laying on your death bed do you think you're more likely to be thinking "I wish I'd been more serious in life" or "I wish I'd had more fun in life"

I know which one it'll be for me, to hell with serious.

Ja?

+1

Censorship in any form is the enemy of creativity, since it cuts off the life blood of creativity: ideas.

~ Allan Jenkins

pwal


these forums just need (a) proper moderator(s)s)

Well it's got 38000 wannabees, does that count..........