Bullies and Gangs

Where? Link?

Got it!

I'm way too lazy to jump up and down.

Smooth move Mooch.

That is why you are my hero.

Beagle


I must say that I am very confused about the Bullies and Gangs references.  I don't understand who has been "bullied"?  and how were these people bullied?

can we get some examples?  references of where this happened?

I suspect the response will be "just look at page one".

bapu

Beagle


I must say that I am very confused about the Bullies and Gangs references.  I don't understand who has been "bullied"?  and how were these people bullied?

can we get some examples?  references of where this happened?

I suspect the response will be "just look at page one".

Page one of the Coffee House?  or Page One of the X1 forum? 
 
I'm honestly not understanding the references.

I used to have a couple of bullies go after me a lot when I was a young hatchling going to school .... this lasted through grade 4 then finally ended when I went to high school ...then, I happened to be taking some self defense curses and found my own inner strength...the 2 found summat a different fellow next school year...they came after me..I flipped one over and he landed on his back and the other I just popped in his jaw...left him staring at me wondering what truck nailed him...never had any issues after that...

Beagle

bapu

Beagle


I must say that I am very confused about the Bullies and Gangs references.  I don't understand who has been "bullied"?  and how were these people bullied?

can we get some examples?  references of where this happened?

I suspect the response will be "just look at page one".

Page one of the Coffee House?  or Page One of the X1 forum? 
 
I'm honestly not understanding the references.

You raise a good point. I will clarify. Both here and there. In many ways, I find the Sonar forum to be rife with bullies. But, then down here, there is a bit of a gang mentality. There is an underlaying vibe of "us vs them", a lot of backhanded comments made about members of and from both forums. I think, frankly, that the participants enjoy the avarice. They keep stirring the pot.


I guess maybe this is just the dynamic of this place. Maybe without it, the place would just fall silent.

I believe I understand your point, Foxwolfen.  I know I have been guilty of referring to topside dwellers as though they were different from those who frequent the Coffee House.  There was no intent to bully anyone, but I see your point.

The reality is that there is a very good reason for these two different forums.  There is an expectation in product and/or technical forums that serious questions or comments will be considered and given serious replies.  It's understandable that some who frequent those forums would take offense at silly or frivolous responses to their posts.  For this reason, we have an Off Topic area so those who wish to do so may engage in all the frivolity they can handle. 

People come to these disparate groups for different reasons.  Those who are seeking answers to technical questions typically do not visit the Coffee House.  Those who are looking for community, humour, or nonsense, will not go to the technical forums.  When threads are moved from "upstairs" to the Coffee House, people from the technical forums suddenly find themselves surrounded by people poking fun and spouting nonsense.  Some don't understand it and get upset.

Occassionally, some of the harsh, accusatory, demeaning and abusive language common to the technical forums is unleashed on those people who frequent the Coffee House.  When that happens, it's natural for a group of people who feel attacked to band together for mutual defense.  We know better, but it still happens sometimes. 

Many of us came to the Coffee House initially to escape the increasingly hostile environment in the Producer forums.  Frankly, I got tired of seeing the forums dominated by hateful, arrogant, jerks who continually tried to shout down anyone who dared to disagree with them.  I visited the Coffee House out of curiosity.  In here, I found the community that had vanished from the Producer forums.  Sure, we're all still Cakewalk Forum members.  The folks who visit the Coffee House are not necessarily any better than those who don't.  For many of us, we just don't want to waste our time and energy engaging in ugly arguments in the Producer forums.

That being said, I take your comments as they're intended.  I care about this forum and the folks we chat with here.  This is my community and I am fortunate to have found it.  I hope that others from the Producer forums would find this a welcoming environment.  I do believe that there is room for all who want to be here.  I have seen a great deal of compassion, encouragement, understanding, and support within this forum.  It has never been my intention to ostracize anyone and I apologize for doing so. 

Bub

foxwolfen

Beagle

bapu

Beagle

I must say that I am very confused about the Bullies and Gangs references.  I don't understand who has been "bullied"?  and how were these people bullied?

can we get some examples?  references of where this happened?

You raise a good point. I will clarify. Both here and there. In many ways, I find the Sonar forum to be rife with bullies. But, then down here, there is a bit of a gang mentality. There is an underlaying vibe of "us vs them", a lot of backhanded comments made about members of and from both forums. I think, frankly, that the participants enjoy the avarice. They keep stirring the pot.

If that's your idea of clarifying, I'd hate to see you in confusion mode.

I really enjoy lively conversation, but the signal to noise ratio is inverted. As noted, many threads just turn to utter nonsense. And yah, I think there are some bullies upstairs. And yah, I think down here, dissenters (and even non) tend to be swarmed by the gang. I know you are all good guys and not out to harm anybody, but maybe its time to stop and think a little. Maybe?

So let me see if I've got this straight:

We are a gang of insecure bullies (who are also good guys) jumping up and down waving hands saying, "here I am, here I am, pay attention to me" and engage in utter nonsense?

And even though you "like and respect" us, maybe we should think about our behavior?


Though I like and respect you (really!), have you thought about who appointed you to be our mommy?

drewfx1


So let me see if I've got this straight:

We are a gang of insecure bullies (who are also good guys) jumping up and down waving hands saying, "here I am, here I am, pay attention to me" and engage in utter nonsense?

And even though you "like and respect" us, maybe we should think about our behavior?


Though I like and respect you (really!), have you thought about who appointed you to be our mommy?

Maybe that is the point. Why is there even a need for a mommy? Why cannot some mommy themselves? You guys all know what I am talking about. Your own sigs, and comments throughout the threads demonstrates that clearly. So why the need to continue with it? What is it, if not attention seeking?

foxwolfen


Maybe that is the point. Why is there even a need for a mommy? Why cannot some mommy themselves? You guys all know what I am talking about. Your own sigs, and comments throughout the threads demonstrates that clearly. So why the need to continue with it? What is it, if not attention seeking?

Maybe because you're missing and mis-characterizing certain things, or criticizing something you find unappealing that others have a different opinion of.

What you consider "attention-seeking" or "noise" may not be that at all to the people involved. 

Or you might be missing something - for instance I made a post earlier in this thread playing on your "shouldn't necessarily be said" adage. You might have just dismissed that post as unproductive noise, but I was intentionally making an implicit point through satire. And the fact that I did so in that particular way also makes a larger implicit point about this place: It was a carefully thought out, provocative post designed to make you consider your own viewpoint while masquerading as drivel - which in turn makes a larger point. 



Having said that, there is certainly a lot of truly pointless stuff here. But who cares? Where is the harm in that? The culture of this place is not suited to bean-counting efficiency experts where everything has to serve some perceived bottom line, but rather a Python-esque creative outlet that ranges from completely pointless to deep and thoughtful, often in the same thread(!). It's a creative outlet for people, and 98% of everything produced is crap. But knowing where that 2% is going to come from ahead of time is elusive. 


Now as to the bullying part, I do think people can go a bit overboard at times. And some seem to be much better at holding a grudge than I am, and I don't see any value in that particular talent. And I also don't see it as helpful when disagreements spill over into every other thread. I think a bit of (hopefully friendly) mockery of self-important types is fair game, but other than that I don't see any reason people can't just make their point (without resorting to personal attacks) and move on. People will disagree sometimes. Big deal.

As to the gang mentality, sometimes a group of people hold similar opinions and a visitor who offers a differing opinion might feel ganged up on, but that's the very nature of holding a minority opinion. The only concern I have about gang behavior is when a group tends to hold themselves to lower standards of behavior than outsiders or dissenters. And I would hope that someone would point that out if or when it happens.

And we really can not have these girls doing this kind of stuff at the midnight hour.
(without me being there since the keyboard in the other corner is vacant)
 The very idea of it, what to do!
I am trying several lines to see if this works in FF.
 Nope did not work either adding <br> to the end of the line, get error message about server.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIsC_eFCkoc
Look at that guy smilin'
Geeze!

drewfx1

foxwolfen


Maybe that is the point. Why is there even a need for a mommy? Why cannot some mommy themselves? You guys all know what I am talking about. Your own sigs, and comments throughout the threads demonstrates that clearly. So why the need to continue with it? What is it, if not attention seeking?

Maybe because you're missing and mis-characterizing certain things, or criticizing something you find unappealing that others have a different opinion of.

What you consider "attention-seeking" or "noise" may not be that at all to the people involved. 

Or you might be missing something - for instance I made a post earlier in this thread playing on your "shouldn't necessarily be said" adage. You might have just dismissed that post as unproductive noise, but I was intentionally making an implicit point through satire. And the fact that I did so in that particular way also makes a larger implicit point about this place: It was a carefully thought out, provocative post designed to make you consider your own viewpoint while masquerading as drivel - which in turn makes a larger point.

Having said that, there is certainly a lot of truly pointless stuff here. But who cares? Where is the harm in that? The culture of this place is not suited to bean-counting efficiency experts where everything has to serve some perceived bottom line, but rather a Python-esque creative outlet that ranges from completely pointless to deep and thoughtful, often in the same thread(!). It's a creative outlet for people, and 98% of everything produced is crap. But knowing where that 2% is going to come from ahead of time is elusive. 


Now as to the bullying part, I do think people can go a bit overboard at times. And some seem to be much better at holding a grudge than I am, and I don't see any value in that particular talent. And I also don't see it as helpful when disagreements spill over into every other thread. I think a bit of (hopefully friendly) mockery of self-important types is fair game, but other than that I don't see any reason people can't just make their point (without resorting to personal attacks) and move on. People will disagree sometimes. Big deal.

As to the gang mentality, sometimes a group of people hold similar opinions and a visitor who offers a differing opinion might feel ganged up on, but that's the very nature of holding a minority opinion. The only concern I have about gang behavior is when a group tends to hold themselves to lower standards of behavior than outsiders or dissenters. And I would hope that someone would point that out if or when it happens.

Its not that I disagree with you. I have made similar arguments myself about this place here and "upstairs" over the years. 


We could argue that "if a person does not like their playmates, then get out of the sandbox"... but the reality is... its not the playmate's sand box. This is what makes it gang like. Gangs think they own the streets they hang out on too. They don't.

I cannot help but think if we are all the sensitive, compassionate comrades we say we are, perhaps its time to take the comments seriously. And do not say "what comments?", or we'll do the fish dance with a dead trout. It is an ago old and ongoing battle. In a stalemate, when no ground is being gained or won but battles are still fought, somebody has to be the first to say "lets stop".

I will admit I am happy to see certain old members no longer frequent the song forum (or I have not seen them yet). I used to love the song forum. I hope I will again, because I like talking about music, I like mixing music, I like composing music, I like helping others achieve their artistic goals. But it was ruined by one or two very noisy people.

Maybe you use satire to get people to think. I prefer to be direct (like John, I am pretty flame proof). I might not be the most eloquent debater, I am not very good at tempering comments with humor, nor am I particularly subtle... but I think I have shown that I do care.