Dofka
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/09 16:09:14
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And the first "TIP" window that comes up in X3 tells you to save CWB But Let it be known, CWB is not reliable like it once was.
Did you know that SONAR allows you to choose several file types when saving projects? CWP Files - A CWP file contains MIDI dad, project-specific settings, and reference to all audio data that resides in another location - the current Data Directory which is set in SONAR' Options, Audio, Advanced Tab
CWB Files - Bundle files contain all the data in a .CWP file in addition to storing the actual audio data used in this project There should be a WARNING that the CWB Files have been known to have problems since SONAR 4 and you should always backup with other methods as well. Such as copying your Per Project Folder. And save as .OMF
Cakewalk's NATIVE file system saving file "CWB" has serious issues now, loss in your audio data. I am one of the unfortunate registered users that has experienced this with a paid client with a deadline and band members from 2 different countries! And SONAR tech support did not bother to respond still after 2 weeks.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/09 17:06:20
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So now the big question remaining is still why do they work for some poeple and not others. Has no one any insight into this? I see the mention of Audio snap. IS there then the possibility that only projects that may contain certain elements, like audio snap as example, are the ones that go south? It seems odd to me that so far there's no real solid understanding here about what it is that does go wrong. And why. And the reason I ask is not for me, as I said I have avoided them because of the many negative posts, I became curious with Dofka's legit complaint on the old Sonar forum which it seems Cakewalk themselves will not even answer. Someone said that Cakewalk has the means to recover his files for him, this would be a good thing if it is true.
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mudgel
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/09 21:40:09
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I don't think you can bundle up a file that contains any active Audio Snap processing. From memory you get an explanatory message when trying to create a bundle.
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mudgel
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/09 21:49:09
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Further to above post to confirm:
From reference guide page 835
"Bouncing AudioSnap and stretched clips SONAR includes a command to select all AudioSnap and stretched clips. The primary use of this command is to quickly select all stretched audio clips before you use the Track view Clips> Bounce to Clip(s) command. There are two common reasons why you may want to bounce AudioSnap and stretched clips: •To free up CPU resources during playback. •In order to save a bundle (.cwb) file, which does not support AudioSnap data."
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wetdentist
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/11 09:08:51
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just yesterday i tried opening up a couple .cwb files from 2007 & both would not open due to being corrupted. this has happened to me numerous times. the "remedy" (opening in safe mode) is a joke because nothing opens, just a blank project. cakewalk should do something about this: either write a utility program that fixes this, or start a service where someone will uncorrupt the .cwb
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eric_peterson
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/13 13:22:23
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vintagevibe Never had problem and have used them for 20 years.
You have had a charmed life. :-) I stopped using them ages ago after getting burned. It was repeatable, they would supposedly be generated without errors, but they were corrupted during creation. Could have been my old daw and not cakewalk, but either way I decided it was a bad idea to have all of my eggs in one basket.
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soens
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/13 17:11:04
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wetdentist just yesterday i tried opening up a couple .cwb files from 2007 & both would not open due to being corrupted. this has happened to me numerous times. the "remedy" (opening in safe mode) is a joke because nothing opens, just a blank project. cakewalk should do something about this: either write a utility program that fixes this, or start a service where someone will uncorrupt the .cwb
Did you open them in the same Sonar that created them or in a newer version? Was it created in 32 bit and opened in 64 bit? Just curious.
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Splat
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/13 17:16:59
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[Deleted, had a good thread to point to but was too messy]
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Grem
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/13 17:53:34
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@wetdentist: Did these files open before? Did you check them after you created them?
And I have been hearing about corrupted bun files before Sonar4. It didn't start then.
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eric_peterson
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/13 18:13:47
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Grem And I have been hearing about corrupted bun files before Sonar4. It didn't start then.
Correct, I stopped using them before SONAR came into existence, back in the Pro Audio days.
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Geo524
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/13 21:46:54
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No probs with CWB's here. Been using them since the X series but I also export the individual .WAV files as yet another back up and safety measure to be on the safe side. I also back up to 3 different places. Internal drive dedicated for back ups, External drive and DVD. I'm not paranoid. Lol.
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Sacalait
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/13 21:50:53
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I back up ALL the time to a bundle. I've yet to have any issues unpacking. Ever!
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Anderton
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/13 23:16:53
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"Digital data is not real unless it exists in at least two places" Those used to be my "words to live by," but now it's two hard drives, a Blu-Ray or DVD optical disc, and a separate backup for all three that consists only of rendered WAV files so they can be brought into any project. For really important projects, on-site backup is important as well. The cloud is good for this. Bundle files existed before Sonar offered the per-project saving option, which is waaaaaay better than the days of dumping all the audio in a single folder and having projects point to that audio. Technology has changed a lot since the bundle file was introduced. I don't use bundle files, but not because I've had problems with them; I haven't. It just doesn't seem optimal to save everything in one huge file where if one bit is missing, you're hosed. I've downloaded plenty of zip files from the net that won't open because they became corrupted during the transfer, which seems like the one-size-fits-all file format is trying to tell me something...
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Cactus Music
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/13 23:21:49
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OK, Ok we know there are plenty of people who have used Bun file without issue, that has never not been clearly understood here.. But that does not help the folks who do have issues. What would be nice is a clear understanding of what goes wrong, and under what circumstances. Obviously something goes wrong in the creation of the file otherwise the dude who has 3 backups would not have all 3 corrupted. There also seems to be the understanding that it goes wrong a lot more that it does with CWP files. I guess we will never know that answer without polling 1,000 users. it would be good to hear from someone who managed to salvage a file.
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Anderton
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/14 00:07:05
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What I'd also like to know is whether anyone who saved a bundle filed opened it immediately after saving to see if it loaded properly or not. If not, then it would seem like a good idea to save using a different format. If so, then what about a bundle file "aging" would cause it to become corrupt over time? I know hard drives block off bad sectors, and sectors can go bad over time...could that be part of it? Do bundles saved to flash drives fare any better? What about optical drives? FWIW whenever I save something with any program I always try loading it before shutting down the program, just to make sure. We have plenty of anecdotal evidence that some people have problems with bundle files, but the circumstances under which any problems happen haven't been very explicit...they generally go along the lines of "I saved a bundle file years ago, I tried to open it recently, it doesn't open." Some more data might help narrow down a possible failure mode.
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Splat
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/14 03:16:33
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If Sonar stores a checksum in somewhere in the file Sonar should diagnose these sort of issues straight away Craig... I have no idea whether this happens or not.
I never have issues, I wonder if it is peoples antivirus that's doing something to it such as locking a file. The other issue is how well bundles work from earlier versions of Sonar.
I'd be keen to find out if people have any issues with brand new projects created with X3.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/15 18:43:09
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I guess the problem is those who have been having issues never get back to the forum with any follow up, I dug through a bunch of threads on the topic and every single one had the same ending, the regulars asking more questions and the OP disappears into the ozone. That is one reason I started this thread. So we are still waiting to hear back from anyone who figured this mystery out. My feeling is this is not a case of anything going wrong with a hard drive or whatever, It seems to point at the files might just be corrupted the instant they were created. The other unanswered question is whether this is a change in audio format issue. After all the message they get is the audio is corrupted. Or is it a change in OS, or a change in Sonar version, 32 bit or 64 bit???? And is Cakewalk going to keep that outdated knowledge base article recommending bundles I copied to my opening post? I will certainly continue to advise not to use them without a CWP backup alternative. .
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Anderton
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/15 20:29:39
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And I'm still waiting to find out if anyone opened their bundle file after saving it to see if it opened correctly.
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mudgel
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/16 02:18:01
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On the occasions when I've used bundle files, I've always treated them like any archiving software. ie create the bundle and before moving or sending it somewhere I ALWAYS open it to check the archiving process worked properly. If it checks out OK then I can use it if not on the occasion is where there's been a problem usually doing it again has resolved whatever the original failure was. Have to admit I've had that occur probably as frequently as any archiving attempts with zip, rar or other earlier windows archiving utilities. That means occasionally I've had a failure. The advantage of zip and rar archives is that there are utilities available that let you examine the archive and often you can salvage many of the files
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paulo
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Re: Bundle files? Making folks mad why are they still an option?
2014/05/16 08:10:10
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mudgel On the occasions when I've used bundle files, I've always treated them like any archiving software. ie create the bundle and before moving or sending it somewhere I ALWAYS open it to check the archiving process worked properly.
Absolutely this. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't. I also wouldn't keep any kind of compressed/zipped version as my back up anyway. The various storage media are so cheap these days that I would only use this type of thing for sending over the www to keep the files size down, not for archiving purposes.
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