williamcopper
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CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
Another update, another uncontrolled dump into the C drive; as I watched it, now there are new places for crap that I don't want on the C drive. This update, platinum alone, supposedly, which goes to a different drive, 3300+ new blocks on C drive used up. 3300!!!!
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Anderton
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/01 10:04:01
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Did you download the files and do a manual install, or choose the automatic option? I always choose automatic so I'm not sure about the fine points of manual installation, but other people here do it and can probably help you out. I'm pretty sure that with the state of the current CCC, with few exceptions automatic will put stuff where it wants to put it regardless of where you want it to go. The only way to customize the install (aside from the VST options in the system menu) is to download the files and install manually. Note that if you downloaded my percussion loop library, that's going to add about 100MB. You can delete it if you don't need the loops, or move to the drive you use for content.
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williamcopper
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/01 10:06:47
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I have everything set in CCC settings that is possible to set. Yet stuff still keeps being put on C drive, and this time in new places under "users", including, I believe, under "Public" by some crapletmaker called Overloud.
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williamcopper
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/01 10:13:21
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Just doing a little more tracking: REmatrix Solo has made multiple little (and sometimes big) nests all over the C drive. I don't use it, don't want it near me. Why why why does this stuff happen?
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williamcopper
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/01 10:26:19
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Perhaps, at this point, it is not actually the CCC which is to blame: it downloaded as I requested, into a different drive, and it updated Sonar as I requested, on a different drive. It is all the other stuff that is incredibly annoying, and silent, and clogging up the C drive.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/01 10:28:35
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williamcopper Just doing a little more tracking: REmatrix Solo has made multiple little (and sometimes big) nests all over the C drive. I don't use it, don't want it near me. Why why why does this stuff happen?
Because you told it to
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williamcopper
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/01 10:38:21
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"Because you told it to" ... no. I'm reviewing my account. I don't use any of the extra stuff except melodyne, and I don't even see "REmatrix" as an option, so it must be bundled into Platinum itself.
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Tom Riggs
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/01 10:47:32
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Rematrix is bundled with the main product. There is also a Reverb from Overloud that gets installed as well.
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mudgel
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 02:14:31
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I let everything go to the default location but 4 months ago I set up mklink for the Cakewalk Content folder to another drive. Everything apart from programs and plugins goes to other drives.
I have an enormous amount of software on a 256 GIG SSD with about 100GIG left. All the space taking data goes to other drives simply by making a few links, and I mean a few. Easy peasy once I learned how. Now I just let each Sonar program go to its default location and it doesn't even know that things have been moved to another drive.
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 03:23:47
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2015/07/02 10:16:42
mklink is DA BOMB... No problems whatsoever since creating junctions to my other drives. Mel
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williamcopper
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 03:42:09
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Sounds like a good idea. Can you give a bit more info on how to use mklink? It would seem that you delete the actual windows directory (folder), and replace it with a symbolic link? So for example, Overloud made something called c:\ProgramData\Overloud and put stuff about REmatrix, BREVERB, TH2 in it. I should move whatever is there to another drive, then make a link: mklink /j C:\ProgramData\Overloud D:\mybigdrive\Overloud_crap ? And down in C:\users\myname\appdata\roaming\Cakewalk, move all that stuff to a big drive and then mklink /j C:\users\myname\appdata\roaming\Cakewalk D:\mybigdrive\Cakewalk_crap ? edited to correct mklink option according to following comment ... so if others see it, it will be right.
post edited by williamcopper - 2015/07/02 04:37:16
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 04:11:25
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☄ Helpfulby williamcopper 2015/07/02 04:27:34
I use mklink with the /J(junction) argument. It's a special link(says junction but is actually a hard link to a Directory on another [local] drive). The /d argument, I believe, is a hard link to a File. williamcopper Sounds like a good idea. Can you give a bit more info on how to use mklink? It would seem that you delete the actual windows directory (folder), and replace it with a symbolic link? So for example, Overloud made something called c:\ProgramData\Overloud and put stuff about REmatrix, BREVERB, TH2 in it. I should move whatever is there to another drive, then make a link: mklink /d C:\ProgramData\Overloud D:\mybigdrive\Overloud_crap ? And down in C:\users\myname\appdata\roaming\Cakewalk, move all that stuff to a big drive and then mklink /d C:\users\myname\appdata\roaming\Cakewalk D:\mybigdrive\Cakewalk_crap ?
Yes, other than the argument change you would be correct. Make sure that the folder you make the junction to DOES NOT exist when you enter the mklink junction command, or you will get an error message. A word of caution: once you have committed to this be aware that Windows will treat the link as though it were a real Directory... DO NOT use Explorer to delete the link if you use any OS previous to Windows 7. Explorer will traverse the link and delete the entire directory AND it's contents. Use an Administrative dos prompt with rmdir to delete it after changing to the directory where the junction link exists. An even safer way to work around this would be to just change the name of the destination folder(directory) before deleting the link. Then you could safely delete the link with Explorer without damaging your files. Mel P.S. With regard to deleting the original folder on your C Drive; It's a good idea to back up the folder before doing so in case you make a doodie.
post edited by OldTimerNewComer - 2015/07/02 04:24:01
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mudgel
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 04:36:55
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I don't have access to some files at the moment but I keep a text file with the various scripts that make the links I want. All I need to do is copy them and paste them in the Command Prompt when necessary. Eg if I was to accidentally delete one or have to amend a location or reinstall etc.
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KPerry
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 04:47:54
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☄ Helpfulby Paul G 2015/07/03 11:21:38
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mudgel
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 09:38:46
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KPerry I'm going to tout this again http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/linkshellextension.html which allows you to do the mklink (and more) from within Explorer.
You say tout it again so I must have missed it the first time. Must check it out. Thanks Kevin. First edit: Checked it out and it looks daunting with all the pics and documentation compared to just a few lines in the command line to use mklink. More reading required. Second edit: I've now read quite a bit of the documentation that comes with LSE. It's seems worth creating a thread espousing its value to Sonar users and providing the link back to the original website. What do others think? I didn't mean to hijack your thread WilliamCooper but it's pretty much where you're heading I think. Let me know.
post edited by mudgel - 2015/07/02 11:46:59
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5MilesHigh
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 16:39:02
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I'm glad that I suggested this back in Jan as I recall, but stated then that I was unwilling to do the experiment due to all the other problems. I've used mklink via a shell extension (probably the one above) for Steam for years in MS (decades in Linux and Unix, but CW is quirky. (No browser text for compressed dir's, etc., for instance, the whole 8.3 filename CLSID thing that still throws errors on Z3ta every time I start SPro, etc) It appears that this is working so far for other folks, so I'll put "link's" on the Sonar maintenance to-do list. I won't even try to check until I've got Win10 running and my new fiber internet running in August maybe, but this does seem to address a lot of concerns with Sonar. I'd sure like to see a confirmation from Cakewalk supporting this tool or better yet explaining any issues that they may be aware of, as that did not happen last time I suggested this alternative for those of us with SSD C: drv's and are concerned with capacity, temp file locations, and write duty cycles.
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mudgel
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 16:45:38
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I haven't used this tool at all, but I have been using mklink not just for bulky data but for VST/I plugins for better organisation and smoother updating. No issue during Sonar's operation nor during new installations which seem to have no difficulty reading the data from it's symbolic location. Mklink is a Windows command so I can't see a problem with it. I don't think you'll get "permission" from Cakewalk, they often remain silent on these matters. As for the LSE (link she'll extension) program that I think you're talking about (mentioned above by KPerry) I guess it will be up to enough of us to use it and convince others to do so also. Again I can't see anyone from Cakewalk authorising it and if they did it would limited in their not carrying any responsibility if the wheels fell off. For the kinds of files/folders we want to push around, I can't see anything worse than an incorrect link being made generating an immediate error or an improper link making some plugin or sample unavailable. I can't think of anything worse. There is the possibility of deleting data inappropriately but that's the case with anyone who has access to a delete key.
post edited by mudgel - 2015/07/02 17:00:50
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jih64
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 16:50:52
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mudgel
What do others think?
What I think is the whole mklink, and above mentioned utility thing, shouldn't even be necessary, just like it isn't necessary for the other 99.9% of the software I/we own, which actually goes where we tell it to, and has the options readily and easily available to do just that.
post edited by jih64 - 2015/07/02 16:57:54
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5MilesHigh
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 17:24:44
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The last issue I have with mklink (cmdline or shell extension) is that it again spreads data around (though by choice this time). I change storage HW/SW and drives pretty much every year or so. Even worse is the effort required to 'backup' a CW/Sonar installation across multiple drives which has stuff scattered all over anyway. Now, if I had a dedicated PC just for Sonar maybe it isn't so bad. But even that gets tedious. BU'ing a TB data partition (being used by other programs (with their own special needs) in addition to myself for a bunch of data) along with my UEFI (which doesn't help at all) C: drive every month just to keep SPro current is not how my BU schedule is arranged and won't be. And I'm becoming a lot less tolerant of C3 DL issues like this F...Boro release with a dozen individual DL's being required to 'get updated' and no 'Down Them All' option. A complete BU involves 2SSD and over 6TB's and happens every 4 to 6 months. I waited 3 years to go from X1(d?) to SPro, and I'm having a lot more than doubts. CW has another 6 months to work things out, but I'm perfectly prepared to go another 3 years with other DAWS if that's how long it will take to get an installation that will be stable for at least one year.
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scook
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 17:30:28
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Ease of backup and environment recreation is precisely why I use mklink. All my custom files are in one place and linked into where the need to go. That said, everyone needs to feel comfortable with their computer management and maintenance methods.
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5MilesHigh
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 17:43:08
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This would be a lot easier if CW wasn't so dependent on the registry and provided log files of installation locations. The whole registry thing (as it works today) precludes separate 32b and 64b Sonar installations since they share the same preferences rather than using their own log files. I mention this because even if I used mklink for both all the CW program and support dir's to get them someplace convenient, I'd still need to do a C: drv backup to ensure the registry and file systems include the Sonar updates. For instance, this FB DL currently in progress to help C3 cache installations is very likely keeping that cache in the registry and on a different drive than any other CW data after using mklink. I tend to sort things out eventually, but I'm not as patient as I used to be and this is way more hoops than any other tool I use. Just my comments with an intent to help make things better. I clearly am "comfortable with their computer management and maintenance methods." It's just that the current Sonar path isn't helping at all.
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scook
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 17:50:33
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I have no use for a current version of 32bit SONAR. If I needed 32bit SONAR for legacy projects, I would use an older version since it would be completely separate from the current 64bit installation. The registry is another reason I use mklink. No need to mess with the registry.
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5MilesHigh
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 18:09:35
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Not raining on anyone's parade here, but I'm not afraid to make comparisons. Sonar and my assorted CW VSTs (and only CW VSTs) still seem to use the registry in ways that my other DAWs/video,etc don't have problems with. I'm a long time user and have 'crafted' (shall we say) structures, libraries, and indexes for RaP,Z3,DP,Z2,etc. Near as I can tell Sonar uses these links along with their CLSID's when locating them. I believe I've got everything 64b, but ... And I do not want to hijack this thread. There are a lot of things going on in the registry for CW relative to other programs for keeping routine data specific to a certain program (which then attempts to go obsolete asap, say Project5). I haven't seen anything resembling a description, and definitely do NOT want to see such a thing of magical registry. The reg is not localized or relocatable from the C: drv. I worry about re-storing a 3 month old BU to a failed C: SSD and potential conflicts with CW's current records, etc. Per the OP: Please make it stop. Pretty please?
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mudgel
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/02 18:36:03
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Let's face it the big data consumers on a drive are samples. The quantity and size of other files pales into insignificance by comparison. The other thing that's nice to have is organisation from the point of finding files and for the purpose of backing up those files where required.
The decision we face is to use defaults and suffer the space consumption on precious C:/ drives or make a change.
I can tell you now that the first CCC update won't solve everyone's issues. Go read the sticky thread in the Features/Ideas forum. There are new features already defined along with things that will definitely not yet be added and may be added later.
Mklink doesn't impact on the registry so anything you've changed already won't be effected. As far as programs are concerned the files are still where they were.
Anyway it's a personal choice. I chose to take care of a simple problem with a simple solution that is working now and doesn't rely on how much Cakewalk do or don't do in terms of making installations and file locations more flexible.
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/03 03:01:05
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mudgel
KPerry I'm going to tout this again http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/linkshellextension.html which allows you to do the mklink (and more) from within Explorer.
You say tout it again so I must have missed it the first time. Must check it out. Thanks Kevin.
First edit: Checked it out and it looks daunting with all the pics and documentation compared to just a few lines in the command line to use mklink. More reading required. Second edit: I've now read quite a bit of the documentation that comes with LSE. It's seems worth creating a thread espousing its value to Sonar users and providing the link back to the original website.
What do others think? I didn't mean to hijack your thread WilliamCooper but it's pretty much where you're heading I think. Let me know.
LSE seems way cool... gonna have to DL this one. Mel
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/03 03:12:29
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jih64
mudgel
What do others think?
What I think is the whole mklink, and above mentioned utility thing, shouldn't even be necessary, just like it isn't necessary for the other 99.9% of the software I/we own, which actually goes where we tell it to, and has the options readily and easily available to do just that.
The man has a Point... However I refuse to hold my breath when a simple, reliable(if you make sure you understand it) annnnd NATIVE fix is so readily available. I stopped stamping my foot when I was three. Perhaps the Bakers SHOULD/will shortly make all these issues a distant memory but it's nice to know I'm not screwed if they have older,(just not in the face, please) more important(in their view) things to contend with. Mel
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mettelus
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/03 03:22:45
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Another associated problem I have is my SSD does not appreciate massive read/writes period, so the unpacking/installing (i.e. temp folder usage) makes it highly irate - unpacking these massive installers to the SSD will cause a BSOD before the installation can complete (e.g., X2, Dim Pro, et. al.) ... and researching this seems to point at a simple heating issue (one site recommended an auxiliary fan just to blow on the SSD for such things). As I just rebuilt this machine and knew this was coming, during the SONAR installs (only) I reassigned the temp directories to a folder on my HDD (and switched them back when done). It would also be beneficial to allow the user to assign an alternate temp directory in the installers themselves because of this. I checked the directory I used after reinstalling Platinum (all piece parts) and 3GB of "residual material" had been left in that folder. [To reassign temp directories - Win7] - Right click computer, select "Properties"
- In the pop up, select "Advanced System Settings" on the left.
- In the next pop up, on the "Advanced" tab, click "Environmental Variables"
- There you can edit both the "TEMP" and "TMP" directories to a new folder (default is "%USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local\Temp" for each).
- This is not something to leave re-assigned, as other installers (especially Windows) assume that is the primary drive and will begin to write protected files on it that shouldn't be there).
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Paul G
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/03 11:15:04
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KPerry I'm going to tout this again http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/linkshellextension.html which allows you to do the mklink (and more) from within Explorer.
I'm hoping one of our very helpful, (and much smarter than I), forum members will make an instructional video for this utility as it would be used with Sonar. I haven't read all the way through the documentation yet but for me, (at least), it's going to take some head scratching. Thanks to whomever developed this. Paul
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KPerry
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/03 11:42:20
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Quick and easy instructions...you only need to use one function of it. 1 - Browse to the folder you want to link to 2 - Right click on it and select Pick Link Source 3 - Browse to the folder where you want to paste the link 4 - Choose Drop As, then Symbolic Link in the submenu Done! You might be prompted for admin privileges depending on where you're creating the link. You can also rename the link you've created after the event if you'd like to.
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SilkTone
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Re: CCC on C drive PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
2015/07/03 11:49:09
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To understand why we are in this position to begin with, we have to understand Cakewalk's own viewpoint on this issue. Which goes something like this: Willy Jones (Cakewalk) Because it adds a layer of complexity between a new user making music right away. I'd hate to burst your bubble here - but you are in the minority. The vast majority of users don't specify custom paths. Muddying up the first time/new user experience because Steven doesn't like it is a poor design choice and counter-productive to one of C3's major goals: remove obstacles to firing up a project and making music fast (herein referred to as goal 1).
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
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