jbraner
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1830
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:38:35
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Status: offline
Re: CWBRN-40567 - real time track bounce or export hangs
2015/11/11 16:33:11
(permalink)
I thought "fast bounce" came about so that you didn't have to wait the full amount of time that the real bounce takes. I never considered the real time bounce to be a "challenge", when it's doing nothing more than the normal "play" would do. I actually thought the fast bounce was "cheating" so we could finish our bounces quicker. Seems like it's pretty much the opposite though 
|
Doktor Avalanche 
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: CWBRN-40567 - real time track bounce or export hangs
2015/11/11 17:12:46
(permalink)
All these people optimizing their systems when really they need to switch the audio off when recording and mixing ;) You laugh but I suspect that will be the next fad!
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/11/11 17:23:30
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: CWBRN-40567 - real time track bounce or export hangs
2015/11/11 17:20:06
(permalink)
jbraner
I never considered the real time bounce to be a "challenge", when it's doing nothing more than the normal "play" would do.
normal "play" does not write to disk
|
jbraner
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1830
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:38:35
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Status: offline
Re: CWBRN-40567 - real time track bounce or export hangs
2015/11/12 04:54:52
(permalink)
scook
jbraner
I never considered the real time bounce to be a "challenge", when it's doing nothing more than the normal "play" would do.
normal "play" does not write to disk
Good point Steve! The thing is - I had this completely wrong in my head, and I'm not sure where it came from ;-) I haven't had a chance to check the manual yet, but hopefully this is explained in the manual. I've been using "Cakewalk" (since "Pro Audio" ver 4 or 5, and have had every version since - right through SONAR) for a long time - so I don't tend to read through the manual much - except when I get lost, or for new features etc. There are lots of features now (and none of us use all of them any more), and things change as versions change - I'm just wondering how many *other* things I've missed. I might start a new post - suggesting some kind of a "Did you know?" section (or maybe even just a heading for posts in the normal forum) where we can share "a ha" moments, or just help each other keep on top of things. ;-)
|
jbraner
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1830
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:38:35
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Status: offline
Re: CWBRN-40567 - real time track bounce or export hangs
2015/11/12 04:58:45
(permalink)
One more thing - perhaps it would be more intuitive to call it "offline bounce" and "real time bounce"?
I just think "Fast Bounce" sounds like it would take shortcuts etc, and maybe be more prone to errors. I never consciously went for "real time" bounce - I just unticked the box for "fast bounce" - thinking that would be the "safer" or "more reliable" solution.
Maybe I'll make a suggestion - although it's a little late to change things now ;-)
|
jbraner
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1830
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:38:35
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Status: offline
Re: CWBRN-40567 - real time track bounce or export hangs
2015/11/12 13:54:45
(permalink)
I just checked the manual and it says nothing about "Fast Bounce" except that it processes audio as fast as your computer can handle it. This is where my misconception comes from, and I'd be surprised if many others don't think the same.It says nothing about being "immune to dropouts since it scales performance based on cpu availability." or "Melodyne can most definitely be fast bounced and virtual instruments as well." In fact is says some instruments can *not* be fast bounced...
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re: CWBRN-40567 - real time track bounce or export hangs
2015/11/12 14:45:33
(permalink)
Fast bounce can have it's own issues, different from real-time, mostly related to whether specific plugins work well with it or work well at the current ASIO buffer setting which is used by default as the "chunk" size for processing audio.
You can add this to the "did you know..." file:
There's a setting in AUD,IN called BounceBufSizeMsec. By default, it's 0, which tells SONAR to use the real-time ASIO buffer size for offline rendering. Some plugins don't like offline processing at high speed in very small chunks (usually obvious as a total bounce failure or gross signal distortion, not something subtle that you would miss). You can avoid this, and potentially get faster offline processing by setting a non-zero value.
A value of 4 (milliseconds) solved a problem I had with a Rapture track in one project. This is how I first found out about the setting. Later I raised it to 20, and it's been there ever since. Noel once posted that values up to 300 or so (IIRC) can be beneficial, but that the larger this value, the more RAM is used per track, which can get to be an issue when bouncing a whole project with a lot of tracks - maybe not so much a concern in the age of machines with 16GB or more, but relevant for those of us running significantly less.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: CWBRN-40567 - real time track bounce or export hangs
2015/11/12 14:59:41
(permalink)
Fast bounce is the default. Rather than overthink the terms used, I try sticking with defaults where possible and only use another setting when the default does not work or I KNOW there is a better setting. I do not see "fast" as a bad adjective or "fast bounce" as misleading. Terms like offline and asynchronous while more technical are also often misunderstood and may not be appreciated by many users.
Given some plug-ins you were using were not capable of fast bounce might have colored your assessment of the feature. I see real time bounce like the global audio folder and bundles as an archiving strategy. When someone posts saying they rely on these features, another user inevitably asks why? The answer often has some historical basis which may need review.
When it comes to the manual, even with the terse descriptions provided, it runs over 2000 pages. I always considered the manual as a one or two sentence description of the items in the index. For more detail "SONAR Power!" seemed a better resource. I admit though, I have not seen a version of "SONAR Power!" since the release of the X series. Still when it comes down to the inner workings of the software, the occasional post by the developers are the real pearls.
My guess is even if one were to create another "Did you know?" thread it would soon be swallow by the torrent of posts about things which could easily be answered by the one or two sentence descriptions in the manual or a Google search of the existing posts.
That said, things could be more clear and I for one would appreciate a more detailed explanation of everything under the hood.
|
jbraner
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1830
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:38:35
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Status: offline
Re: CWBRN-40567 - real time track bounce or export hangs
2015/11/13 06:17:46
(permalink)
Well, thanks a lot for your input guys - I've certainly learned something new. I'll try using "fast bounce" for all my bounces and for track freezing (I do a lot of this with my guitar amp sim plugin) and see how it goes... 
|