vintagevibe
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Cakewalk totally messed up Key +/- !
In X1 they removed the ability to quick-group Key +/- making it a nightmare to try different keys for a singer. So now in X2 they remove the ability to click and enter a number with your keypad. Oh, but they didn't stop there. Now it's a slider that goes to + or - 127 semitones! (that's really usable) How could it be worse you ask? They also changed the brackets ([]) function to go in increments 8 semitones instead of an octave!
I suppose it makes sense in a way. They don't believe anyone needs notation so who needs silly things like octaves and key changes. Just grab a different loop. 
post edited by Bill Jackson [Cakewalk] - 2012/10/08 15:48:28
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chuckebaby
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 02:17:38
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you should really change this title man..
theres no need for that.
what you may think is okay to put what you want in the title,its not.
and its offensive.
i have no problem with your beef but your title is out of line.
fwiw-do what i and alot others have done,use a notation professional software,unless ofcourse youd rather write posts like this that offend people.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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dubdisciple
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 04:48:32
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chuck, vintagevibe is one of the resident angry people who finds a way to insert snide condescending remarks into his complaints so it's no shock he would use a crude title. For some reason he is under the mistaken notion that sonar is targeting mostly loop based musicians when the truth is that loop based musicians are certainly not the core of sonar users. sample based musicians probably find sonar even more frustrating than staff view musicians they are just not as prone to complain here or leave snobby remarks. they simply use software they find more loop friendly (no need to name names since anyone who knows anything about loop based production already knows the regular competing names). Every time i find myself somewhat sympathetic to his cause he rips off another elitist remark that reeks of pure bitterness. Sonar can be used for just about any genre but if this forum is any indication, the primary user is either an independent studio owner, mostly doing rock and blues and independent singer/songwriters who specialize in guitar based music. Yes, there are exceptions and i have seen the occasional jazz, hip-hop, dance music artist here, but make no mistake, they are far outweighed by guitarist and rock/blues and folk keyboardists.
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daveny5
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 08:42:05
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Just press enter and type in the # of semitones you want it transposed, or you can use the + and - keys, or the left and right bracket or you can use the slider. I don't think this is the big deal you're making it out to be.
Your title is a violation of the TOS. You should change it.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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John
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 08:52:55
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I agree with the responding posters the title should be changed. You should do it voluntarily or CW will do it for you. I would prefer you did it.
Also I too have used the new transposed widget and I did not have a problem getting it to do what I needed done. A change of approach may prove useful to you.
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pwal
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 08:58:10
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yes, swearing in the subject gives people a reason to ignore your genuine dissatisfaction with the apparently random swapping around of key bindings etc - changing stuff around is a standard marketing tactic to make things appear to be new
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vintagevibe
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 14:47:17
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daveny5
Just press enter and type in the # of semitones you want it transposed, or you can use the + and - keys, or the left and right bracket or you can use the slider. I don't think this is the big deal you're making it out to be.
Your title is a violation of the TOS. You should change it.
daveny5 you are correct you can press enter. I didn't realize that. So why did they remove the ability double click on it, or increment by octaves? Why did they remove the ability to quick group it? I'm angry because these screw ups will never be fixed. They have been steadily removing functionality and flexibility since X1. If you don't use these functions you don't care. If you do it makes your work harder. They upgraded the matrix since it's all about loops but MIDI, notation and video is not only ignored but made more difficult to user. Cakewalk has, indeed, re-positioned Sonar for the amateur, paint by number crowds and this is evidence by the things they work on and recent price reductions.
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Freddie H
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 15:52:19
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vintagevibe
In X1 they removed the ability to quick-group Key +/- making it a nightmare to try different keys for a singer. So now in X2 they remove the ability to click and enter a number with your keypad. Oh, but they didn't stop there. Now it's a slider that goes to + or - 127 semitones! (that's really usable) How could it be worse you ask? They also changed the brackets ([]) function to go in increments 8 semitones instead of an octave!
I suppose it makes sense in a way. They don't believe anyone needs notation so who needs silly things like octaves and key changes. Just grab a different loop.
There are numerous ways how to change the values... Hovering over with the mouse... and.... 1. hit ENTER and enter value 2. Scroll-wheel with the mouse +12 or -12 octave.. 3. Click left mouse and Drag left - right 4. Shift scroll-wheel +1- -1
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 16:28:21
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vintagevibe
In X1 they removed the ability to quick-group Key +/- making it a nightmare to try different keys for a singer. So now in X2 they remove the ability to click and enter a number with your keypad.
Press F2, enter value.
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MagBass
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 17:45:39
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vintagevibe
In X1 they removed the ability to quick-group Key +/- making it a nightmare to try different keys for a singer. So now in X2 they remove the ability to click and enter a number with your keypad. Oh, but they didn't stop there. Now it's a slider that goes to + or - 127 semitones! (that's really usable) How could it be worse you ask? They also changed the brackets ([]) function to go in increments 8 semitones instead of an octave!
Sorry for coming late to this, but I'm confused: I assume you're referring to Sonar 8.x, but in-program help says that you cannot group Key+. I tried it and it didn't work, so how did X1 remove something that never worked? Apologies if I'm misunderstanding something.
Sonar Platinum (64-bit); many CW PC modules; endless plugins (most of which SPLAT doesn't list); Edirol PCR-800; Win10 Pro 64-bit; Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 interface; lots of hardware I don't actually use anymore; 1972 Rickenbacker 4001 bass (Chris Squire days); other basses, guitars, mics, etc.
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jbow
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 17:50:27
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you should really change this title man.. theres no need for that. what you may think is okay to put what you want in the title,its not. and its offensive. +1 J
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Heroics
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 17:52:19
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u a priest ???? LMAO
chuckebaby
you should really change this title man..
theres no need for that.
what you may think is okay to put what you want in the title,its not.
and its offensive.
i have no problem with your beef but your title is out of line.
fwiw-do what i and alot others have done,use a notation professional software,unless ofcourse youd rather write posts like this that offend people.
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jbow
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 17:52:28
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Press F2, enter value. Pithy... Karl style! You are good... J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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Heroics
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 17:54:17
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LMFAO so hard --
you all Jesus lovers ??????????????
ROFL
one can not post a word ???
you all cry now ?
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MagBass
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 18:32:30
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vintagevibe
...Oh, but they didn't stop there. Now it's a slider that goes to + or - 127 semitones! (that's really usable) How could it be worse you ask? They also changed the brackets ([]) function to go in increments 8 semitones instead of an octave!
I've just played with Key+ in X1 and X2 and it really is messed up in X2: As you said, the brackets go +/- 8 instead of +/- 12, plus the +/- keys themselves go by 2 instead of one and you can never get back to 0 unless you dbl-click. (And I didn't realize that in X1, those keys don't work at all!) Wow. Completely FUBAR. You know they'll fix it but CW, that is pretty lame...
Sonar Platinum (64-bit); many CW PC modules; endless plugins (most of which SPLAT doesn't list); Edirol PCR-800; Win10 Pro 64-bit; Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 interface; lots of hardware I don't actually use anymore; 1972 Rickenbacker 4001 bass (Chris Squire days); other basses, guitars, mics, etc.
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simeon
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 19:37:36
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FastBikerBoy
vintagevibe
In X1 they removed the ability to quick-group Key +/- making it a nightmare to try different keys for a singer. So now in X2 they remove the ability to click and enter a number with your keypad.
Press F2, enter value.
Karl, Learned something new ;^) Might pick up that video to see what else I might be missing. Thanks!
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timidi
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 19:40:19
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They also changed the brackets ([]) function to go in increments 8 semitones instead of an octave! Haven't noticed that (haven't tried yet). But, if so, then your post title is accurate.
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timidi
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 19:41:33
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Press F2, enter value. I thought that was tempo????
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stevec
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 19:52:50
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LMFAO so hard -- you all Jesus lovers ?????????????? A priest comment followed by this. It's not hard to tell where you're coming from...  Anyhow, this is a public forum and therefore subject to TOS rules regarding language. IOW, the OP could could have made his point with a more tactful subject line. Just sayin'... Just curious... did Karl's suggestion to use F2 help?
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Dave Modisette
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 20:28:42
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Heroics
LMFAO so hard --
you all Jesus lovers ??????????????
ROFL
one can not post a word ???
you all cry now ?
I am. Have you got a problem with it?
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chuckebaby
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 21:31:55
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Heroics
LMFAO so hard --
you all Jesus lovers ??????????????
ROFL
one can not post a word ???
you all cry now ?
maybe your not used to an open forum of members actualy helping members,youve broken the TOS twice now and are just basically trolling. you have said nothing to help anyone or nothing constructive to provide even the slightest bit of information regaurding the subject. Youve been Reported
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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musicroom
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/06 23:21:37
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Heroics
LMFAO so hard --
you all Jesus lovers ??????????????
ROFL
one can not post a word ???
you all cry now ?
Yes - I love Jesus! Is that a problem for operating X2? So far my Christian songs seem to record quite nicely...
Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
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vintagevibe
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/07 00:01:44
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MagBass
vintagevibe
In X1 they removed the ability to quick-group Key +/- making it a nightmare to try different keys for a singer. So now in X2 they remove the ability to click and enter a number with your keypad. Oh, but they didn't stop there. Now it's a slider that goes to + or - 127 semitones! (that's really usable) How could it be worse you ask? They also changed the brackets ([]) function to go in increments 8 semitones instead of an octave!
Sorry for coming late to this, but I'm confused: I assume you're referring to Sonar 8.x, but in-program help says that you cannot group Key+. I tried it and it didn't work, so how did X1 remove something that never worked? Apologies if I'm misunderstanding something.
I am referring to 8.x and before. They removed that function. If you need to audition different keys in a MIDI based song it's a nightmare.
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vintagevibe
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/07 00:06:36
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timidi
They also changed the brackets ([]) function to go in increments 8 semitones instead of an octave!
Haven't noticed that (haven't tried yet). But, if so, then your post title is accurate.
Thank you.
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vintagevibe
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/07 00:23:36
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Freddie H
2. Scroll-wheel with the mouse +12 or -12 octave..
That is actually helpful.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/07 01:18:39
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timidi
Press F2, enter value.
I thought that was tempo????
AFAIK F2 will work on any value entry, highlight the control or text figure - press F2 - enter value. It'll even work on the odd few where enter doesn't, hence the suggestion.
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vintagevibe
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/07 02:15:41
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FastBikerBoy
timidi
Press F2, enter value.
I thought that was tempo????
AFAIK F2 will work on any value entry, highlight the control or text figure - press F2 - enter value.
It'll even work on the odd few where enter doesn't, hence the suggestion.
Interesting. So why can't you double click to enter?
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MagBass
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/07 02:28:15
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vintagevibe
MagBass
vintagevibe
In X1 they removed the ability to quick-group Key +/- making it a nightmare to try different keys for a singer. So now in X2 they remove the ability to click and enter a number with your keypad. Oh, but they didn't stop there. Now it's a slider that goes to + or - 127 semitones! (that's really usable) How could it be worse you ask? They also changed the brackets ([]) function to go in increments 8 semitones instead of an octave!
Sorry for coming late to this, but I'm confused: I assume you're referring to Sonar 8.x, but in-program help says that you cannot group Key+. I tried it and it didn't work, so how did X1 remove something that never worked? Apologies if I'm misunderstanding something.
I am referring to 8.x and before. They removed that function. If you need to audition different keys in a MIDI based song it's a nightmare.
That's what I'm saying; I tried to do what you said in 8.5.3 and it didn't work. I looked it up in the help system and it specifically said that Key+ could not be grouped at all: You can create a temporary group (a Quick Group) of track or bus controls by clicking the strip selector on each track or bus that you want to group. Similar or identical controls in the grouped tracks or buses will then move synchronously when you adjust them. For example, if you made a Quick Group of an audio track and a MIDI track, and then dragged the volume fader in the MIDI track, the volume fader in the audio track would move in similar fashion. If you dragged the Velocity Trim fader in the MIDI track, the Volume Trim fader in the audio track would move also.
Note: Not all controls can be Quick Grouped or Grouped. Controls such as Input, Output, and Effects Send Selector on Audio tracks as well as the Input, Output, Channel, Bank, Patch, Time+ and Key+ controls on MIDI tracks cannot be grouped (they can have identical values set though by using the Tracks > Property > [name of property] command).
So it appears that what you're saying was removed in X1 didn't even exist in 8.5.3. Am I missing something?
Sonar Platinum (64-bit); many CW PC modules; endless plugins (most of which SPLAT doesn't list); Edirol PCR-800; Win10 Pro 64-bit; Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 interface; lots of hardware I don't actually use anymore; 1972 Rickenbacker 4001 bass (Chris Squire days); other basses, guitars, mics, etc.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/07 02:35:59
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vintagevibe
FastBikerBoy
timidi
Press F2, enter value.
I thought that was tempo????
AFAIK F2 will work on any value entry, highlight the control or text figure - press F2 - enter value.
It'll even work on the odd few where enter doesn't, hence the suggestion.
Interesting. So why can't you double click to enter?
No idea but I'm not a big mouse man. I either have the control highlighted via a CS and then press F2 or single click and press F2. I prefer F2 simply because pressing enter can have a changing affect if the focus isn't where I think it is whereas F2 doesn't.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Cakewalk totally f**ked up Key +/- !
2012/10/07 02:52:42
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vintagevibe
In X1 they removed the ability to quick-group Key +/- making it a nightmare to try different keys for a singer. So now in X2 they remove the ability to click and enter a number with your keypad. Oh, but they didn't stop there. Now it's a slider that goes to + or - 127 semitones! (that's really usable) How could it be worse you ask? They also changed the brackets ([]) function to go in increments 8 semitones instead of an octave!
I suppose it makes sense in a way. They don't believe anyone needs notation so who needs silly things like octaves and key changes. Just grab a different loop.
Why not use process-->transpose? Wouldn't that be the easiest way anyway? Even in 8.5 an earlier it was a menu command not a quick group.
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