Can Sonar switch banks on a Korg T3

In your Korg manual, or from Korg support, you need the exact controller code(s) for switching banks. One of my synths requires three non-intuitive controller messages to be sent to change banks. You will probably have to go into event view for that track to insert these. Something else to watch for is how different soft and hardware handle the first Bank name. Some call it Bank 0 while others call it Bank 1. You can guess what happens to the rest if the first one doesn't match.

Madmix,

I'm afraid I don't have a Korg T3, but I do have an old Korg N1R,
and I had the same problems as you, in trying to change some
midi channels to instruments in different banks.

As a start, try looking for a patch which is very different in Bank A
to Bank B, ie a Helicopter noise in bank A, and a steel drum in
Bank B.

You need a short Midi file with only midi notes in it, and perhaps a
GM/GS reset sent as a SYSex when you open it.
Change the patch to be your BAnk A patch, and make sure the sound is correct.

Then try changing the Bank number from what it currently is (probably
none) to the (MSBx127) value. in the Sonar track pane, and see if it will
change the sound from the Bank A patch to the Bank B patch.

If it stays the same, add 1 and try again.

If it stays the same, try adding 127, and trying again.

I know it's a bit hit and miss, but that's the way I got to do patch changes
initially, until I worked out what was going on.

Now, it's easy, and my Instrument definition takes care of it, I don't know whether
there is one for the T3, have you tried CakewalkNet.com.

I will try and recall what I did to get it working properly, in the meantime,
stick with it, because it can be done.

Regards,
Colin.

Madmix,
I've just tried changing banks - and all I do, is position my
mouse on the Bank panel in the Expanded Track view, and right click.

This gives me a list of all the possible patches, and shows the Bank
namesand numbers. I highlight a patch from a different Bank, click
OK, and Voila - my patch ahs changed, and the Bank has changed
on the N1R. I've got mul;tiple banks of sounds, and I can use all
of them at the same time.

See if your Instrument Def. file will allow you to do this. If it looks ok in
Sonar, but the Korg does not change, then check for a setting in the Korg,
(possibly a Global Setting) which allows or stops Program Changes, etc,
and make sure they are set to allow. (The Korg default used to be
disabled).

Hope this helps,

Colin.

Ken,

I've had a search, but cannot find a manual for your Korg.

If you have one, you need to find the pages which show
theVoice Name list (probably in the appendix, or perhaps
as a seperate booklet.)

They will show lists of different voices, and at the top of each
list, you should see the MSB and LSB values you need to use
to access each Bank.

FOr instance, I have a r:CM Bank, which has the values MSB =127
and LSB =0.

So, you multiply MSB by 128 (not 127 as in my earlier note)
and add the LSB, so you get 127x128 + 0 = 16256.

In the Bank select box for the track you want to change the voice of,
you put 16256, and the patch number is the number of the voice from
that bank you want to play.

Only problem is that you may be 1 out in your calculations (well that's what I found)
Some synth manufacturers don't seem to understand zeroes, so you
may need to alter your calculation by 1 (an LSB 1) or 127 (an MSB 1)
or 128 ( an MSB 1 and an LSB 1). Same applies to the patches.

The data you listed earlier e.g. F2 41 03 01 0E 05 is Hex, and is the raw midi data.
Again, a bit of searching in the Korgs midi implementstion pages (usually the appendix)
should explain what the message is - if you are not a programmer of any sort,
it might be difficult to understand) - which was why I was loooking for a copy
of your manual.

The Instrument definition file, is basically a file which contains a list of
all the different patches available to your synth, with the Bank
MSB, LSB and patch number details associated. So then you can search
in Sonar using patch names which relate to the names listed in your synth.

Hope this helps

Colin

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't mind putting in the time to get this thing to work. I don't, however understand what you mean by the (MSBx127) value. Is there an option in the bank dropdown of the track panel called "MSB x 127"? Or is this a calculation that I must perform based on the MSB? If the latter, then I will need the MSB because I don't know this number (the manual does not provide the MSB or LSB values).

Only for clarify: MSB (Most Significant Byte) is the Patch Bank Method wich Korg told you (32 - I don´t know if this is the correct number) and LSB (Low Significant Byte) is the Bank Number wich Korg told you (0=Bank A and 1=Bank B - I don´t know if these are the correct numbers).

Also Juca,

I tried that method of changing the bank selct method and controller 32 didn't work. Thanks for your help though.

I´m sorry that didn´t work. Have you tryed the "Normal" Bank Select Method or the "0" Bank Select Method?
I have a Korg X5DR (module) and it use the Normal type method. This method use both Control 0 and Control 32, each one with one value, for change the banks. As suggested by ColinB52, verify in the Voice List Name of T3 manual the MSB and LSB for each Bank and compare with the Instrument Definition you are using. If values are different, change to the values showed in the T3 manual.
Good luck!

Ken:
I have 3 Korg devices: Wavestation EX, M3R and X5/DR. I also made a search and read a document with old Korg devices Bank Change maps. All the 3 devices I have and all devices in that document (Korg 0, X and I series) use the Normal scheme for changing banks.
The Normal scheme is the one wich make use of:
1- Control Change 0 (zero), value xx
2- Control Change 32, value yy
3- Program Change zz.
The first two are codes wich make the choose of the bank where you wish to go. Each device have a combination of the two values (xx and yy in the example) setted to the CC0 and CC32 for to permit you go to a specifc bank. Then, choosed the bank, the next message is the program in that bank you wish go to. The xx, yy and zz values you can to see in the Instrument List of your T3 User Manual.
These 3 messages need to be in sequence. If you are using a valid Instrument Definition, the two initial messages are built in it when you choose the desired bank (A or B) and you need only to choose the program number.
When you are inserting this info in the track, you need put it:
- Message 1 at 01.01.000
- Message 2 at 01.02.000
- Message 3 at 01.03.000
As all my devices and all devices I saw in the web documment use the Normal scheme, I´m sure the T3 also make use it and you would to have succes using it inside Sonar.
Only my .2 cents.

Well, the patch numbers that I tried yesterday didn't work . I'm at an impasse. I will try calling Korg support again today. Meanwhile, if anyone can help me decypher these numbers that I recorded into the Sonar event viewer, they may hold the key:

Sysex data captured with Sonar during
manual switch to bank A of T3 (3 sysex events total):

F0 42 30 26 4E 02 00 F7
F0 42 30 19 4E 02 10 F7
F0 42 30 19 4E 12 00 F7

Sysex data captured with Sonar during
manual switch to bank B of T3 (3 sysex events total):

F0 42 30 26 4E 02 01 F7
F0 42 30 19 4E 02 10 F7
F0 42 30 19 4E 12 01 F7

What I did was set Sonar to record the MIDI output of the T3 while I switched manually from program bank to program bank. The above is from the Sonar event viewer. It's meaningless to me but maybe one of you gurus can make sense of it.

Thanks,

Ken

And completing the ColinB52 info, comparing the two system exclusive messages, the bank numbers are really 0 (zero) for Bank A and 1 for Bank b, as showed by the last digit before of the F7 end of message code.
Colin: only for to correct your info, in the 3th digit of the system exclusive message (30), the zero mean MIDI channel 1, the first MIDI channel in the MIDI specification and not MIDI channel 0 (zero) as you said.
Greetings.

Hi Ken:
If the Korg info is correct (I believe it isn´t), you wouldn´t to use the Normal method. Instead, use the Controller 0 (zero) method. The Korg info is pointing to a Controller 0 with value 0 for change to Bank A and Controller 0 with value 1 for change to Bank B, so the correct method (as suggested by Korg, of course) is the Controller 0 method.
By other side, you can not to use this way for to acess other Bank program and, instead, to insert the system exclusive message as suggested by Colin in other post. As these Sysex messages are very short in lenght, I believe it will not disturb the timing when the song is playing. This is a valid aternative.
Good luck.

Hi Ken:
Sorry about the Korg info didn´t work for you, but I already knew of this.´
About the Korg controllers list, after a recording session I´ll start now I´ll make a search and send it to you. Please tell me your E-Mail.
Aout the Sysex messages, can you record newly but changing banks inside the Combi Mode? As you did record the info inside the Program mode, when you play hte info obviosly you have the mode changed from Combi to Program, right? Make a test and post the result.
Good luck!

On Edit: and please, if you have the T3 Manual, check the Program List and look in the header of the list (or aside of the program name) for to see if you have the control change used for banks change in the list.

Hi Juca,

I did the test of bank change from within combi mode and the sysex data shows that when I advance the program (regardless of whether I am switching banks or not) it returns the sysex data of :

kind=control
data=96

If I decrease the program (scroll back one program) it returns:

kind=control
data=97

But it gives these values whether I move from one bank to another or not. Anyway, here is my email address:

madmix@earthlink.net

Thanks,

Ken

Hi Juca,

I did some of the tests that you mentioned (see above posts for results). My T3 does not have a "multi" mode that I'm aware of. or at least I don't know how to access it. I have heard of multi modefor the M1 though. Are you referring to sequencer mode. As far as switching patches in combi mode, that's how I got the "96" and "97" (data in/de-crement) values. With the T3 you need to scroll through the patches to change them within the track.

Well, I called Korg again and I was told that the t-3 uses controller 32 method. I was also given the following values but I'm not sure exavtly how to plug them into an instrument definition file:

BYTE/ BANK-A/ BANK-B

MSB/ 0-0/ 0-0

LSB/ 32-0/ 32-1

Could this be right? I will play around with it later today. Thanks for sticking with me on this!!!

Regards,

Ken

Hi Juca,

So then if I understand correctly, my instrument definition section should look like this, right?

; ----------------------------------------------------------------------

.Instrument Definitions

[Korg T3]
BankSelMethod=0
Patch[32]=Bank A
Patch[33]=Bank B

Unfortunately, no luck with this way. Either I am wrong or my Korg is broken . Also, the Korg tech said that the T3 uses controller 32 method to change banks. I also tried the file as below woth no luck.

; ----------------------------------------------------------------------

.Instrument Definitions

[Korg T3]
BankSelMethod=0
Patch[0]=Bank A
Patch[1]=Bank B

Ken

Hi Colin,

I tried this (see previous post). Or do you mean that I should leave out the BankSelMethod line?

Ken

Hi Colin,

No luck there. I have been defining the ins files and associating them with my T3's midi in channels via the options/instruments dialogue. I downloaded an instrument definition file for my MC505 which worked perfectly for that device. Well, I'm stubbor... I mean determined, so I will get this to work eventually.

Thank you,

Ken