Collaboration- Guitar Hacker and Starise- " Hard Way To Live"

This is one Herb and I worked on. If you ever get the chance to work with Herb, don't miss it. He is a great guy to work with and has a good ear. We both put this together and actually have several mixes of the same song. Right now we are narrowing down the best mixes. This is one we worked on recently and I would be interested to see what you guys think.
 
The drums are Addictive Drums...Herb played the lead Tele parts ,sang the harmonies and did a lot of other stuff.
 
https://soundcloud.com/starise/hardway
 
 

Rik- I think some of the guitar is a clash with the tails of the acoustic at some endings. I like the more aggressive sound of the guitar, just a preference I guess. At one point I had a filter on the guitar, but removed it. Maybe I'll revisit that based on comments we get here.I might bring up the vox some as well. Thanks!

Tim, this is a good song that is just a tweak away from being a gem.  You've already gotten good advice on how to achieve that.  You and Herb work well together.

I liked it and it has a great message. Like Lynn said, a tweak away from a gem. Very nice song with some nice instrumentation and vocals. Really enjoyed!! A+
 
Peace and Blessings, John

OK... thought I'd chime in a say a few things.  Tim approached me with the song almost written. I helped smooth out a few lines in the lyrics but not enough to really say I co-wrote this with Tim... it's Tim's song through and through. 
 
I jumped in and worked up a few guitar tracks, to try to determine a direction,  scrapped them did some new ones, and put the steel and B3 together.  Tim worked on guitars and sang it. I think I literally threw a few harmony tracks together for Tim more as a "we could do this" sort of thing. We went back and forth over the direction, should it be rock, or country and what direction? I was hearing a Waylon sort of 4 on the floor country outlaw thing. Tim was more of a rock persuasion.  Since it was his song, hey... whatever he wanted to do is fine with me....
 
I think we did the drums several times. I kinda like the AD track.... I think it was the second or third one Tim came up with. Bass was even worse. Tim offered a bass track, I countered, Tim did another bass track, I countered with a bass I played on the keys but it sounded to.... boring. Time did yet another and I countered yet again with a track I thought really had a sweet groove. But hey, it's Tim's song, and while I was working up my own 2 versions of the song...... I didn't really want to do the mixing and production on this, I wanted to see what Tim would end up doing.
 
There was a week there we lost touch with each other.... he was waiting on me and I was waiting on him.... So, this is the version Tim decided to go with. Nowhere in the run up to the final version did we have a piano in the earlier versions.  That is new to this version, and it's Tim on the keys.
 
My comments on this mix:  Vocals and harmonies are sounding good.
 
I don't like the tele. It just doesn't sound like I would like it to. But that's not an issue related to the production. I'm seriously considering selling it and buying a Gibson or something else similar.  The lick was "borrowed" from little MJ.
 
The drums are still an issue IMHO. The beat at the beginning almost has a swing to it....  having that swing feel and at other times not so much, it really leaves the groove of the song in a kind of limbo, in that, it never establishes itself rhythmically into a definable groove. The drums also are a bit low. As such, I don't think there is a firm groove yet in the song. It feels kinda loose.  To me, this is the biggest issue with the song.
 
I don't know that I would have used the steel in this version. And I'd probably limit the tele a bit and perhaps back it off a few db.
 
All in all, headed in the right direction but still some work (IMHO) left to do.
 
 
NOTE: We've probably spent more time on this song than almost any other collaborative effort I've worked on. Not a bad thing... just trying to find that sweet spot for this song to live in.
 
 
 

Great Message, nice job! Keep producing! - Shawn

Starise
SteveC-Hey you took your pic down man. I'll know you if I see you in Parkesburg :) Thanks for listening to the tune. I'll revisit the drums in the mix. I had bifilter on the guitar and it sounded better..but it also seemed less apparent as a lead instrument...I like the personality of the tele, but I can see where it might be too forward or gritty in this mix. I am going to address that.Thanks for listening.
 

OK, I have to ask...  where are you located?    Not many people would ever write "if I see you in Parkesburg". 
 
For the guitar, I'd run it through the Quad Curve EQ and use the high and high-mid bands at max 18db and narrow Q to find any potential trouble spots - the FFT graph can help here -  then reduce those frequencies by a small amount.  It might require more than two bands in which case I'd just stack the Sonitus EQ since it's a cutting operation.   I've done this many times and it can really make a difference in the mix. 
 

Whoa... yeah, that is close!   Kind of like one of those "I can almost see you from here" moments.    Seriously, if I were to walk up to the farm behind my house (not my farm!) I can see Rt 10 and the back of WalMart.   
 
You're welcome.   EQ'ing amp sims really can make a big difference.  Oh, I did find the one thread started by Craig that I was thinking of: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Tip-Sweeter-TH2-Sounds-m2933481.aspx
 

 SteveC- Man you probably hear my car drive by :)... I'm in Christiana but I pass through there all the time...WalMart, I try to stay away from there but sometimes I end up there.Hmmm...sounds like you live really close to Barr ( his last name)
 
I lowered the guitar volume. Now it almost seems too low to my ears, but it seems to fit in the song. I gave the drums a little more presence.
 
thepogue- I worked with the vox and I can bring it a few db lower/EQ to maybe blend better but too low and I lose it and the window is smaller than you might think. Thanks for listening.
 
FWIW here is Herbs PG version of the same song- He went more acoustic and it's PG...in the other mix there is no PG. Herb did a good job with it.
 https://app.box.com/s/ekzc8xhgw01ihxm4ollv
 
 
 

Starise
 SteveC- Man you probably hear my car drive by :)... I'm in Christiana but I pass through there all the time...WalMart, I try to stay away from there but sometimes I end up there.Hmmm...sounds like you live really close to Barr ( his last name)
 

 
I'm not sure who Barr is (?), but if you're in Christiana chances are we've driven by each other a few times.  
 
I do like the other version as well, but I think yours has a more "contemporary" sound.
 

It's a good song so keep at it guys. I have to agree with Herb, in that the drums are holding it back, there's a laziness in the feel that doesn't quite gel with the rest of the song. Drums are definitely not my thing so I'll just leave it that.
I also think the guitar needs to be more smoother, and less grating, for it to fit with the feel. To me, the song has a gentleness to it that is born out in the vocals and other instrumentation, and the guitar just seems to fight against this. It's perhaps not as important as the drum issue but I think a more sublime guitar would add loads to the song.
Thanks for sharing this, it's great to hear songs that are "in the making", it helps others like me to hear where other musicians come from in regards songwriting.

Bapu-Thanks for listening. I will look at that.
 
SteveC- Barr lives behind Tractor Supply and actually works as a manager there...at least he did.
 
Daryl- Thanks!
 
Rebel- I think at this point we  have decided that the guitar will need to go. It wasn't Herbs playing, which is excellent...more the tone of the sound...no matter what I did to it, I couldn't seem to take enough edge out of it to keep it. In the copy I have up now I took the volume down on the guitar and did some EQ work. Herb didn't like it from the get go to his credit. I kept thinking I could make it work.
 
Scotty- Thanks! and yes...that tele probably needs a retake. 
 
 

Yeah... that guitar tone... I have struggled to get a good tone from the tele using the pod ever since I got it...mostly to no avail on the distortion settings.
 
I just about decided to sell it. Then the other day, just for grins, I decided to plug into the boogie and try to record something using it. I'd tried that before and it didn't go well. Since I've played a Gibson with humbuckers all my playing life, getting used to the single coils (prone to hum and noise) took some getting used to.

Well, for the first time in a long time, I managed to get some decent tone..... downright respectable, sweet tone. I even went and deleted my "guitar for sale" post on FB as a result until I play it with the Boogie a bit more. Not saying I'm gonna keep it or I'm gonna sell it for another humbucker Gibson...I'm setting on the fence, but I don't want to do something I might regret.
 
I may, again, just for grins, have another shot at the guitar parts in Tim's version with the mesa combo.
 
Sorry to hijack the thread on a tele rant.....