Collaboration (general community question)

Michael,
As a hobbyist myself. I collaborate regularly with two other friends who use non SONAR DAW"S. I send them wave stems in emails. They record whatever they want and send their stems to me for mixing & EQ etc. Gmail seems to work best using the drive feature so you can send larger files but still usually one at a time as waves are BIG files.
 
I would be happy to help in any way! I'm a wiz at programming EZ/Supperior Drums if you need that? Guitar & Bass are my main instruments but I can edit midi like crazy...go figure! Just don't expect a piano concerto from me...LOL
 
Vic

Hi Michael,
While it hasn't been traditionally used as such, I can't think of a reason that this forum couldn't be a resource to find other folks who want to collaborate. You might also try the songs forum.
 
FWIW, I do distance work with other (usually non-Sonar using) folks all the time. Like Vic mentioned, the usual method is by using stems, though I generally use some sort of shared internet-based storage (dropbox, google drive, etc) instead of email. In fact, in my experience, that kind of distance work is very common.
 
If you're looking for collaborators, I'd give it some thought. PM me if you'd like to give it a try...
 
 
Dean

Well I remember Res Rocket Surfer (and I was a member)...

I find collabs pretty straightforward sharing audio files.  A free box.com account has enough space for a tune or two and collabs are really easy to set up.
 
 

Keni
Oh, and I too have collaborated using stems. I find that I give MP3 files for the stems so that it's easier to deal with on,I've as the stems are only really needed for monitoring while adding tracks...

Kenni,
 
You do realize that an mp3 (even highest 320kbps CBR) has about 72 samples of silence (header info) in the file?
 
So you send an mp3. They play to it. They send back an mp3. You now have their take with 144 samples of extra silence. Alignment nightmare unless you both agree to some actual audible alignmnet (like a four beat snare) starting at measure two and "never" align to 1:1 with your files.
 

Someday, there will be software that allows real time collaboration. Like ON LINE jamming that you could obviously record, etc.
 
I too find that working with other muso's is more creative than one can be by themselves.
 
Now a bit OT,  I was reading how early GENESIS would write songs..... literally, they jammed for hours to some type of visual theme and recorded everything. Went back later and then they all listened to all the jams and picked out little pieces that served as building blocks for songs. Developed the blocks into more structured snippets and then sequenced all the blocks into songs, at which time, Peter Gabriel would write lyrics to the finished pieces.  Peter also participated in the jams singing horrible jam melodies with some words and mostly ah  and  oh sounds, which also went through the process of snipping pieces of melody together and fit to the blocks of music.
 
I have heard some of these jam tapes and they sound horrible... think 1960 garage bands with one mic recording all sound at once.  Then when I listen to the finished product done in the studio, and they are all amazing transformations (from jam to finished product).
 
Long story short..... collaboration is what music is about..... said another way, two heads are better than one even if one is me.
 
Oh, can anyone with more knowledge than me speculate when the communication platform to do this could be ready?  Not in my lifetime I am afraid but someday.
 
Jim
 
PS - sorry for the GENESIS story but I found some of the jam names and the final music to be very interesting... like, PHAROAHS floating down the NILE eventually became "Fly on the Windshield" on The Lamb and wanted to share one technique of writing music with collaborating musicians.
 
 

jklebanPS - sorry for the GENESIS story

That's what my Sunday School teacher said 25 years ago... "but seriously..." that was a pretty cool story and a great example of how collaboration can actually work!!
 
 

Jmagerman,
 
If we can live with 5ms of delay with high latency settings (i can at least), who knows how fast they will be able to get data to stream someday in the future????  Just saying.
 
Jim

I used to collaborate with a previous forum member ( sadly passed away) and we never did finish our first project.
But now
just think now. You could email a template file which would give you the layout of Mix. Now with Mix recall we can swap those settings as well

Agree on plugins that you both have. You can exchange preset files very easily and build up a project one track at a time with an MP3 guide of a rough mix

I think with some little experimentation it wouldn't be too hard.

Data transfer shouldn't be an issue these days. Even though I'm retired I still get projects for mixing sent me. I might get as many as 50 or 60 tracks to mix. I usually use OneDrive as MS gives 1TB of data so I never run out. It easily uploads my biggest file/s overnight when I'm not working

What's a "stem?" Is it different from a single track exported as a .wav file?

Razorwit
Hi Larry, 
My humble explanation of "stems" is here:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2821456
 
Dean

So "logical groups of tracks," as opposed to individual tracks. Thanks!

Collaborating within Sonar would be a lot more creative than exchanging wave (or mp3) files - couple of people is working on a project without being forced to commit to a certain song structures, guitar/drum/whatever sounds and midi grooves, and  everybody can tweak everything in a creative process.  
 
I have a lot of unfinished Sonar projects (haven't we all) and I would be very interested to let  you add solo, bass line, change chords, replace my midi grovee with the one you like better, or sing.  Inspiring each other is what the bands are for.

bapu

Keni
Oh, and I too have collaborated using stems. I find that I give MP3 files for the stems so that it's easier to deal with on,I've as the stems are only really needed for monitoring while adding tracks...

Kenni,
 
You do realize that an mp3 (even highest 320kbps CBR) has about 72 samples of silence (header info) in the file?
 
So you send an mp3. They play to it. They send back an mp3. You now have their take with 144 samples of extra silence. Alignment nightmare unless you both agree to some actual audible alignmnet (like a four beat snare) starting at measure two and "never" align to 1:1 with your files.
 

Thanks Bapu...

I have been told that before... But I don't seem to have a problem... It's easy enough to slide the track into a tight fit. I've managed to do this for a few album projects due to the needs of the client...

Might not be optimum, but it works pretty well... And of course, you could move it exactly 144 samples...yes?

Sometimes these work arounds are easier to deal with than the mail. Not everyone is able to up/download full sized wav files so snail mail would be the only other option...

Keni

How do you find someone on your level and style to collaborate with?  There's the question.

GregGraves
How do you find someone on your level and style to collaborate with?  There's the question.

Personally I find it rewarding to collaborate in styles other than the ones I usually play in, and with better players. It raises my game.