Transcending Music


Here's another method of A/B'ing that also ensures latency free, glitch free listening and for comparison's sake, that is what you want. Just bounce to a stereo mix each rendition. So, dry/unaffected, then Neve version, so on and so forth. Then group/invert solo each one versus the dry, then you can do them against each other as well. 

Ah yes, and check out Dean's shootout! 

Hi Bob, nice to run into you again (so to speak).
Shootout is such a strong word. Brief and almost entirely unscientific comparison? Passing stab at trying to spot differences? Oooh, how about entirely circumstantial but hopefully mildly illustrative demonstration? :)

As for placement in the Pro Channel, my take is here in a remarkably similar thread:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2669435

Dean

xxxsoundxxx


  I didn't say they didn't know what they are talking about just that they did not research all the info at the detail level I did to notice conflicting info. The manual recommends to put it first. Apart from the manual what information would you think was more likely correct? I mean If you can't trust the product manual to be correct what do you trust?

I'm just curious what deep level research you've been doing.   Reading the manual?  I imagine Seth, Brandon and Noel were involved along X2's development.  They've been using X2 for quite a while, I suspect, don't you?
 
As for trusting the manual, have you actually read it?  I think not, or you wouldn't say this.  There are several mistakes.  I'm not surprised.  Manuals are the last thing to worry about in the development process - last minute changes etc.  I was surprised it was out so soon.  X1 took ages until the PDF arrived.
 
Please fill us in on your deep research so that I, Seth, Brandon, Noel, the ProChannel Preset Designers et al, can learn something about X2.
 
 

Eddie TX


Hey folks, there really is no "right" or "wrong" way to use these fx.  There are too many variables to prescribe just one method for everyone.  Not to mention that what might be best for one project might not be so good for another, even for the same mixer.
 
But here's the fun part:  you can put them wherever you want and see what happens.  Double or triple them up!  Mix and match!  Put one flavor first in the chain and another last!  Play with the controls!  Try the Channel module on a Bus and vice versa!  Go crazy!  The possible combinations are endless.  Stop when you hear something you really like.  Or, if things get too muddied up, back off a bit. 
 
I have used VCC, NLS, and StripBus.  Compared to those, the CW emus are pretty subtle and nothing revolutionary.  But I love all these analoguers -- they have the potential to make ITB mixes sound more like real studio recordings.  They can be used as a distortion effect, if that's what you're after.  They can also ruin a mix if overused.  Point is, there are no rules -- you can use them in the way that sounds best to you.  Experimentation will eventually lead to good results for each project -- it'll be worth the time and effort.  Have fun!
 
Cheers,
Eddie

+1 to experimentation.

There is no right or wrong way to use it. We had to pick one for the default templates and putting it at the end seemed the best to get just the console emulation without the potential for exaggerating the effect.

BTW the fact that you cant quick grouping enable/diable for all tracks and buses simultaneously will be addressed in the next update.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

BTW the fact that you cant quick grouping enable/diable for all tracks and buses simultaneously will be addressed in the next update. 

YAY!!!

One advantage to having the console emulation last is that it makes a track (channel in console speak) behave more like the analogue world when you overdrive a channel or a bus.  You get an analogue type distortion which is far more forgiving than digital distortion.  Putting the emulation first means you don't necessarily get this.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

BTW the fact that you cant quick grouping enable/diable for all tracks and buses simultaneously will be addressed in the next update.

To clarify I meant well try and do this for the console emulators and external PC modules at most. 
In the general case quick grouping will continue to work on its data type. i.e. if you are in the track pane it will affect tracks and in the bus pane it will affect buses. It could be unexpected if across the board it applied to both tracks and buses, since if you were quick grouping track volume you wouldn't want it affecting bus volumes.

Thanks again for clarifying.
 
As I said, I can't think of a time I've wanted to quick group Tracks and Buses until I wanted to A/B the Console Emulation.  It didn't bother me because I couldn't imagine another instance when I'd want to..

Transcending Music

Silicon Audio


One advantage to having the console emulation last is that it makes a track (channel in console speak) behave more like the analogue world when you overdrive a channel or a bus.  You get an analogue type distortion which is far more forgiving than digital distortion.  Putting the emulation first means you don't necessarily get this.

Sure you can, you just drive the signal with trim. That is how one would do it on an analog console, "trim" up or down before hitting it. In actuality, on a console, you'd get some kind of input coloration as well as on the way out of the channel and then so on and so forth down the line to the bus. But at least for this set up what I and some others were driving (no pun intended...screw it, pun intended!) at the point of if one were looking for a real world set up so to speak, then using it first allows you to use other effects like an insert point. 

The problem I see with trying to use it like a real world analogue scenario is that all other effects would need to be inserted in the middle of the Console emulation.
 
Overloud have tried to emulate all the disparate components of a console.  Your signal would pass along part of it, be sent out to outboard gear, re-inserted, sent to others (or pass through internal comps etc), to tape, then exit the strip, through the faders,  etc.
 
This is not possible with a single plug in.  So we need to find the best place to make the most of what we have, until Cake come up with FX chains within modules, which I think is a bit much..  "I want to insert a compressor inbetween the modeled resistor 'there', and 'that' transformer. And I want it to sound like it's a wet Autumn afternoon in a cold room with condensation on the trim pots..  Near the north pole, where the tape behaves differently.."
 
We need to put it where it serves its purpose best..

Transcending Music

Silicon Audio


One advantage to having the console emulation last is that it makes a track (channel in console speak) behave more like the analogue world when you overdrive a channel or a bus.  You get an analogue type distortion which is far more forgiving than digital distortion.  Putting the emulation first means you don't necessarily get this.

Sure you can, you just drive the signal with trim. That is how one would do it on an analog console, "trim" up or down before hitting it. In actuality, on a console, you'd get some kind of input coloration as well as on the way out of the channel and then so on and so forth down the line to the bus. But at least for this set up what I and some others were driving (no pun intended...screw it, pun intended!) at the point of if one were looking for a real world set up so to speak, then using it first allows you to use other effects like an insert point. 

It depends whether you want your analogue non-linearity or distortion before or after your FX chain.  Personally, I nearly always want it after.  There's a reason guitarists usually put something like a wah pedal before an overdrive or distortion pedal - 9 times out of 10 it sounds a whole lot better.  A modulation of the signal produces different character in the over-driven stage.

If you do it all at the front end and you have FX that add gain, any resulting overdrive will not be very analogue-like.

The reality is that a real console has it's FX patched at insert-points, so there are analogue stages both before and after the FX.  That said, in my time doing live sound, over-driving with the trim at the preamp stage NEVER sounded good.

But as Noel says, there's no absolute rights or wrongs here, because we're working in a whole different paradigm.

Transcending Music


Hi Silicon A., I think we may have posted at the same time. My post above yours addresses your post in light of this system. 

Yep 


You know, the cool thing in this new digital world we live in is that we can have diametrically opposing points of view and still both be right 

Here is what I got from Overloud. Hello , I'm going to answer your questions from our DSP development perspective which is not related to the parameter naming. The Console Emulator module emulates the summing circuitry of the mix bus. Its natural position is at the end of the chain (last module in the channel) because in a real console the summing happens after all the channel processing. The Trim control is not related to the "Input Trim" control of a real mixer; it is something which controls the amount of these "summing effects". The Console Emulator module is not a channel strip plugin; it only simulates the mix bus summing effects. It also has a Drive control in case you do not have any preamp simulation modules and you want to boost the channel gain and increase the amount of nonlinear processing. This is more like to the "Input Gain" control on the preamp of a real mixer. You can also experiment some creative use of the Console Emulation module by putting it at the beginning of the chain: with this configuration you can use the summing circuit effects to create harmonics for your next processors. This is a creative use and it is not intended to simulate how a real console behaves. Best Regards, Thomas Serafini DSP Developer - Overloud

I was in the "put it first" club, but after reading this ( because info comes from the developer)(and because Seth, Brandon and Noel use it that way) I'm going to stick it last in my chain and start recording. When I first saw the console emulator,I thought it would be a read instructions and use it deal. Guess not. This really has a wide range of interesting opinions I was surprised that the developer said place last. I would have bet on first. I also noticed in X2 The pro channel presets place it last while if you open the templates it is placed first!

Hate to say "I told you so"   

jb101

Silicon Audio


Hate to say "I told you so"   

I have resisted the temptation to say this.  I am an adult.    

C'mon, man.  We all know being an adult is no fun at all. 

The Trim control is not related to the "Input Trim" control of a real mixer; it is something which controls the amount of these "summing effects

 
 
I find this odd, as it does appear to act like a trim control.
 
Having only looked briefly at this tonight, it does appear to boost/attenuate the level a lot.  I had thought the drive button affected the "Amount of effect", if you will.  I'll have to have a proper look/listen when I'm less busy.