rebel007
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/04/28 22:14:26
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When I first started using the Console and Bus Emulators I would use them as the last FX in the chain. They seemed to have a subtle but pleasing effect, and I would start at about 2.0 and add or subtract a little to alter the effect. I rarely use the Tolerance emulation as yet.
Now, however, I have begun to use them as the first FX in the chain so that the clip is colored before it passes through the usual EQ, Compressors and other FX. I find that the effect is a little more pronounced in this position, and to my ears this feels a more natural way to use them.
I do still switch to using them last in the chain occasionally to get a particular sound.
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olemon
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/04/28 22:20:49
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I just added the Console Emulator to every track and bus in a current project. The meters on the Bus Console Emulators never move. The meters on the Track Console Emulators do.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/04/29 01:36:25
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☄ Helpfulby olemon 2015/04/29 05:06:51
olemon
I just added the Console Emulator to every track and bus in a current project. The meters on the Bus Console Emulators never move. The meters on the Track Console Emulators do.
Like with any distortion/harmonics emulation (and that's what these console plugs are) it totally depends on the material if meters basically shouldn't move or if you can drive them harder. If not sure (or if just starting out to use these plugs) Mix Recall is a brilliant way to quickly create 2 mixes with different settings on the console emulations (use quick groups to quickly adjust multiple tracks as you won't hear much difference if just changing a few) ... batch export both mixes (using "Source Category" Mix Recall) and lock them away for a few days, then listen and decide ... after you have used console emulations for a while, you will quickly notice if you've gone too far ...
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olemon
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/04/29 05:10:08
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FreeFlyBertl
Like with any distortion/harmonics emulation (and that's what these console plugs are) it totally depends on the material if meters basically shouldn't move or if you can drive them harder.
After reading your post, I checked again. I could hear the bus modules alter the mix when I turned them on, but I was expecting to see the meters move similar to the track modules - they do move on the busses, though barely detectable. I experience some quirks with Sonar and thought this might be a new one:)
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RSMCGUITAR
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/04/29 21:49:47
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Can anyone give a brief overview on how each console affects the sound. I don't really have the knowledge about what 'classics' in the console world are and it's a little toungue in cheek for me.
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mudgel
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/04/30 01:41:20
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bapu
...wicked
Yah but some people use them on every channel.
I myself use it on my Master bus, it's part of my recipe for making stuff sound like it was made in a real studio :-)
But in a real studio would not every mic/line typically in go into the console?
Yep, that's the point exactly. Have them on every channel and bus right from the start before the first audio hits your project. That's the way Cakewalk recommend their use (see the Sonar Reference Guide). http://www.cakewalk.com/D...lp=ProChannel.09.html# see the section entitled: How to use the Console Emulator. The way a project sounds coming through a real desk is a cumulative effect of all the channels summed. If you were comparing the sound of two or more desks you would check the cumulative sound not the channel sound to look for differences, but if not every track went through that desk it would be pointless. So again, PC emulation on every channel and bus from the start.
post edited by mudgel - 2015/04/30 01:56:16
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RSMCGUITAR
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/04/30 23:49:32
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Anyone willing to take a stab at answering my question? I realize there has been a flood of Dorchester threads
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melmyers
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/05/01 04:16:21
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☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2015/05/05 04:16:44
RSMCGUITAR
Can anyone give a brief overview on how each console affects the sound. I don't really have the knowledge about what 'classics' in the console world are and it's a little toungue in cheek for me.
Cakewalk posted this blog last October that should bring you up to speed. http://blog.cakewalk.com/..ole-emulation-in-sonar/
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sylent
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/05/01 05:20:30
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I always let my ears guide me and try different configurations, but usually the end of whichever tracks and it seems to have a bigger effect, especially on heavily distorted guitar etc.
On more acoustic sounds with less FX, I'll add a touch of saturation at the top and drop some gain below.
Sometimes it's only the bus, and most vox on both bus and tracks.
Generally speaking that is at least a starting point for me depending on what I'm going for. lol
I also seem to use the tape emulator more than any other across the board so far, and at least at the end of the chain it makes a greater overall difference usually, and I like what it does with some light compression behind it.
Especially on smaller projects for some reason, but they do sum across almost any project real nice.
Maybe I'm just strange. lol
Thanks for the blog link Mel .. helpful info!
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EricDeluxe
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/10/19 06:44:46
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I know that this is an old thread, but did find an interesting youtube video about Console emulations and how to use it in your DAW. However the video is about Waves NLS, but they discuss how CE are used as "Summing Mixing" units. The notion is that I better understnad why Craig Anderton recommendations the settings in his video. I did find it interesting as the video actually explain why to use it in this way and not as the first in the chain... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97t9Z4bEAZ4
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AT
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/10/19 10:25:43
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I don't. I try to get as much saturation as needed from analog during tracking. If I do that, I find the CE just clouds the sound.
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TheMaartian
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/10/19 11:08:00
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FreeFlyBertl
...
2. To simulate console preamp coloration: The NLS Channel is placed on the first insert of your DAW audio tracks, and the NLS Buss can then be inserted at any point on the buss or master track.
The NLS automatically ensures channel variation by loading a different channel model for each instance of the NLS Channel component, chosen from the pool of 32 modeled channels per console.
...
Maybe it doesn't matter, but I'm wondering if the specific channel model for each instance is saved in the song state, the way the setting is saved if the Tolerance switch is enabled on the SONAR ProChannel console emulators.
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EricDeluxe
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/10/19 21:11:13
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Good question TheMaartian:) Don't know
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EricDeluxe
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/10/19 21:13:38
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Yes, that seem like best practice there AT, however I mostly use Software synth. I find that the CE sometime can make the sound a bit warmer and clearer. AT
I don't. I try to get as much saturation as needed from analog during tracking. If I do that, I find the CE just clouds the sound.
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Chregg
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/10/21 11:05:06
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AT
I don't. I try to get as much saturation as needed from analog during tracking. "If I do that, I find the CE just clouds the sound." thats wat puts me off them, i thought it was me lol
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kevinwal
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/10/21 11:35:41
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AT
I don't. I try to get as much saturation as needed from analog during tracking. If I do that, I find the CE just clouds the sound.
Yeah, I have a tube preamp that I use for vocals and guitars and sometimes it's just too much of a good thing and stuff starts to get a little fuzzy. When I track vocals direct into the interface using an SM58 (which sounds really good for my voice in some situations) I will not use the CE for that vocal's signal chain until it hits the summing bus where I will use a single instance for the entire mix.
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orangesporanges
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/10/21 16:39:48
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Depends to me. If I am recording instrumental contemporary jazz, I want things tight, focused, and uncolored. As little PC in the signal path as possible. For acoustic/ vocal , I use it on almost everything. Even when I don't engage the majority of the modules, however, I ALWAYS use the quad curve, at least subtractively. It's a pretty good EQ and it sits in a good spot ergonomically and signal chain wise. good for keeping the source and it's mic from barking or ringing. Also good for keeping 20khz material out of the kick drum. 
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PilotGav
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/10/23 09:37:51
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michaelhanson
"You will typically want to insert the Console Emulator module as the first module, and make sure ProChannel has Post FX Bin disabled. However, you can also experiment with placing the Console Emulator module at the end and enable Post FX Bin, so all your effects and processed sound are affected."
Mojo,
Taken from your Console Emulator link above, in the 2nd sentence. At the end, post FX bin.
Yet by default it's LAST in the chain... And when I questioned this based on the above statement - I was given the advice in the forum to "leave it where it is by default" - which is LAST in the chain. And that makes no sense. So who knows! :-)
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Anderton
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2015/10/24 11:26:00
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There's no "one size fits all" answer because the answer is context-dependent. The ProChannel was originally envisioned as a mixer channel strip. If there was no FX Rack, that would be the end of the story...the CE would go at the end of the PC. Although usually it wouldn't make much difference if the CE was at the beginning or end, placing CE before Tube Saturation (distorting the CE) will provide a different effect than if placed afterward (CE processing distortion). Also, you have the same question as "EQ before or after compression?" where the answer is "it depends on what you want to do - compress the EQed sound, or EQ the compressed sound."
If you use the FX Rack mostly for time-based effects like reverb or delay, it makes sense that you would want to process the mixed sound. But, suppose you want 8 stages of EQ, so you use the ProChannel EQ and also insert an EQ into the FX Rack. Now the FX Rack is acting more like an extension of the "channel strip." In this case, you'd probably want the CE in the ProChannel to be post-FX Rack.
However, placing the ProChannel post-FX Rack has other implications. For example if you're compressing with the ProChannel, you might not want to compress the sound of the processors in the FX Rack. So then you have decide what your priorities are...
I would recommend placing the CE at the end of the ProChannel if you're treating the PC as a channel strip. OTOH if you're adding effects like delay or reverb in the PC, you might want to put the CE between the "virtual channel strip" and the "outboard time-based effects."
Just remember that ultimately, there are only some cases where there's going to be a significant difference between putting the CE at the end of the chain and elsewhere. Also, the CE will not be the determining factor in the appeal of a song. The CE can add that extra little bit of coolness; you'll get most of the benefits of that if the CE is placed properly within the ProChannel.
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stm113cw
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2016/09/02 14:53:57
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You use the tap emulation on most tracks? I don't know why I always thought that should just be on the master for authenticity. In my mind it goes through the console to tape right? Am I missing some sonic goodness here?
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stm113cw
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2016/09/02 15:36:05
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Here's a couple of questions.. I am assuming that the N-Tupe is a Neve, The S-Type is an SSL, and the A-Type is the Trident A Range, this isn't my question but if that can be confirmed that'd be totally cool too.
1-Is the emulation of the console only in that particular module to say that it does not influence the PC eq to behave more closely to the channel strip/board it's modeled after? If not, how cool would that be?
2-So the more instances of the CE the more effective it does overall due to summing? If this is the case, then how does it affect said summing if you want the drums to have that Neve sound, the guitars and bass to have that A-Range sound and the vocals to have that SSL sound? So the real question is, does it mess with the summing if you have different types selected on the CENSUS?
3-How does the summing work any way?
4-why doesn't the Channel or Buss compressor model not have high pass capability?
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Anderton
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2016/09/02 16:01:14
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stm113cw
Here's a couple of questions.. I am assuming that the N-Tupe is a Neve, The S-Type is an SSL, and the A-Type is the Trident A Range, this isn't my question but if that can be confirmed that'd be totally cool too. That's correct. 1-Is the emulation of the console only in that particular module to say that it does not influence the PC eq to behave more closely to the channel strip/board it's modeled after? If not, how cool would that be? It does not influence the EQ. However, bear in mind that the QuadCurve already emulates four different EQ types. As a result you can mix and match console type and EQ type. 2-So the more instances of the CE the more effective it does overall due to summing? If this is the case, then how does it affect said summing if you want the drums to have that Neve sound, the guitars and bass to have that A-Range sound and the vocals to have that SSL sound? So the real question is, does it mess with the summing if you have different types selected on the CENSUS? The CEs don't affect the summing per se. Summing simply sums the individual channels. So if the drums have the Neve sound and the bass has the Trident sound, then in the final mix it will sounds as if the drums were mixed through Neve channesl and the bass through Trident channels. 3-How does the summing work any way? It's a mathematical operation. 4-why doesn't the Channel or Buss compressor model not have high pass capability?
The Bus compressor is modeled after the 4K, which didn't have high pass capability (the G Series one did). The 1176 compressor didn't have a high pass filter, either. Regarding the question about tape emulation, it depends on the effect you want. If you want to sound like you're sending signals from a digital multitrack to a master analog tape machine, insert a tape emulator in the master bus. If you want to sound like you recorded each track to an analog multitrack, then insert a tape emulator in each track.
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stm113cw
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2016/09/03 09:17:18
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Thank you for the great information, you never disappoint on the knowledge front. Unless of course you're telling someone something can't be done lol.
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tlw
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2016/09/03 11:13:34
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stm113cw
You use the tap emulation on most tracks? I don't know why I always thought that should just be on the master for authenticity. In my mind it goes through the console to tape right? Am I missing some sonic goodness here?
In a tape-based studio every track is recorded to tape, as is the output from any aux tracks handling reverb etc. On mixdown the tape is played back through the desk and summed to a master bus which in turn is recorded to tape as a stereo mix. So to emulate a tape based studio a tape emulator is needed on every track and bus/aux channel that handles send effects, and on the master. If you want to go further and emulate the days of the Beatles, Hendrix etc. and earlier you might also want to do sub-mixes through aux channels which also have a tape emulator then use the bus not the relevant tracks as your source during mixdown. This being to emulate the practice of bouncing recorded tracks down to a single mono track or stereo pair to free up tape tracks for other use in the days when recoders were four or eight track machines and if you wanted to record more tracks you either spent a fortune on more tape decks and handled issues like getting them perfectly time-synchronised or bounced some tracks down. Approaching a project in that way, using only (emulations of) technology that was in use at a particular period in the way they were used back then can be quite an interesting exercise. I've done it a few times over the last year or so, pretending it was 1972 or the early 60s using Waves' Abbey Road plugs and a few others of the right period and my respect for what engineers and producers achieved back then has increased enormously. It's maybe worth remembering that the technical history of the studio multi-track recorder (and consoles) was a process of developing more and more "transparent" tapes and recording technology, minimising phasing issues, minimising distortion introduced by necessary technology and generally trying to achieve as little distortion/audible effect as possible. Having said that, it's also the case that there are distortion components which humans seem to find very appealing.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2016/09/03 12:26:34
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tlw
If you want to go further and emulate the days of the Beatles, Hendrix etc. and earlier you might also want to
... restrict yourself to 4 tracks
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Anderton
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2016/09/03 16:55:32
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Although it's often been said Sgt. Pepper's was cut on a 4 track, there was a lot of bouncing between machines.
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filtersweep
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2016/09/05 14:11:57
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Even more console emulation questions...
I understand that an emulator can go pre or post fx bin, can be placed anywhere from first to last in a PC strip and that different type emulators could be used on different tracks. IF my goal was to attempt to record something as completely true to the realities imposed by actual analog recording, what would the typical signal chain look like? I have very limited experience with actual analog consoles, but in my mind I am thinking that some tracks would prob use the emulator post fx bin, like a guitar with stomp boxes, where the guitar signal would go to stomp box then to console. And other tracks, like keyboards, for instance, would be plugged directly to the console with perhaps some effects added via send from the console, therefore the console would be first in the PC strip. I have trouble visualizing how anything other than outboard effects applied directly to an instrument's output would go before the console. So I am thinking that the console first in the PC strip but post fx bin would be most "real world". I am prepared to be schooled on these assumptions, so fire away and point out the flaws in this argument. It's not like I have much experience with this, just trying to emulate how things were set up back in my long ago analog past.
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Anderton
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2016/09/05 14:24:09
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There was no one way to do analog recording, so there's no one way to emulate it. With classical guitar recordings, I usually patched the mic pres directly into the tape machine to bypass the console. Sometimes effects went into insert jacks that were post-input transformer, sometimes they went into the console inputs and were pre-input transformer. However IMHO the "sound" of a console wasn't fully revealed until the output summing bus, so to me, a console emulator would go at the end...unless you specifically wanted the sound of processing with an input transformer, in which case that would be more important than emulating console non-linearities, so I'd place it at the beginning.
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filtersweep
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2016/09/07 09:45:10
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Thanks for that insight, Craig. I guess analog routing was/is more flexible than I was thinking. Variable placement of the console makes more sense to me now.
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tlw
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Re: Console plug-ins - how do you use them?
2016/09/07 12:00:21
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pwalpwal
tlw
If you want to go further and emulate the days of the Beatles, Hendrix etc. and earlier you might also want to
... restrict yourself to 4 tracks
Or four busses each carrying a tape emulator fed by sub-mixes from tracks. Maybe as many as eight tracks if you're wealthy enough to own such a high-tech state of the art desk. Then there's the whole Les Paul way of doing things with repeated tape overdubs and pretty much everything controlled from a panel on the guitar or Robert Fripp's Frippertronics. Live looping nowadays is quite a bit simpler and much cheaper. I wonder if there's a market for an emulation of a 1920s/30s mono disc-cutting recorder, complete with crackles, pops, wow, surface noise and a 12KHz low pass filter....
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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