Controller handles & selecting controllers - RESOLVED SORT OF.

Hoping someone can help me with this. I very rarely record MIDI controllers, and I'm beginning to find out why.......

I've recorded some CC-64 pedal events on a MIDI track that started off life as piano and is now moving to a synth like sound. As a result I want to delete all of the CC-64 events but leave the notes in place. Is there an easy way of doing this? Every time I select a controller it selects the note and obviously if I delete it takes the note with it. Am I being dumb as usual? But I think it is related to my second problem.............

which is..... I just don't see controller handles at all, even with "Show controller handles" selected. I know that velocity doesn't show handles but the pedal controllers aren't there either. I even inserted a few other CCs, to see if they appeared on those and they don't. Is there another setting tucked away somewhere I'm missing. I've found a couple of old threads where others have had this problem but none of those seem to have a resolution.

I've tried this on my laptop which is X32 all round and I can show handles and then as a result easily select the controllers and delete them. On my DAW though which is x64 all round this just ain't happening. It's bizarre to say the least unless there is some setting that I'm missing. Both running X1c build 319.

Any ideas/help much appreciated as always.

Hi Fbb...

I haven't tried this or know if it's what you seek, but maybe change to using the separate controller view where each controller is discrete and you can erase all the controllers?

I'll have to give a look when I can...

Keni

The handles? This would be in what view? In the PRV in the lanes? Pedal events show in the track view as triangles. If you are talking about the notes pane in the PRV they may not show there. They should show in a lane though.

OK I looked and CC64 does not show up in the PRV. It is in the Event List though.

In the PRV no CC64 shows up at all. They do show up in the Event List and in the Track View.

I checked in the notes pane and the controller panes of the PRV. Only velocity showed up. I am on 64 bit Sonar X1c. Your observation is confirmed.

Late to the party but... CC64 gets special treatment in SONAR and shows triangles to indicate up/down pedal events. Other controller types should show rectangular handles, and do in my X1c x64.

In any case, you should be able to select and delete controllers in the controller pane or erase them with the erase tool without affecting notes.

Here's a couple of screenshots with the menu open so you can see my settings. I'm very confused...........

With the handles first...........





and the other track same settings without......... WTF?






I'm very confused, any ideas much appreciated.

EDIT: I've just realised that they are both the same tracks which just confuses me even more. If I open the LH piano in the PRV that is showing the handles, the controller handles do show on the LH track though. Bizzare....

Thanks for the reply. The only controller data I have on the tracks is the cc-64.

I am seeing the random velocity lines showing up in lanes that you are but can't seem to get a recipe, it's almost like a redraw issue.

The handles thing is really bugging me now. I'm on my laptop so ruled out the x64 theory but it is so random I just can't fathom it.

It may be screenset specific because in some screensets I don't see the handles while in others it works perfectly. In some I get them in one PRV but if I open another PRV I don't. I'm currently going crazy trying to see if I can come up with a sequence or set of conditions that re-produces it.

As you can see from my screenshots I've got two PRVs open with the same track in both, identical settings and one is showing the handles the other isn't. It doesn't matter which PRV is locked or not or which track is in which, one of the PRVs displays the handles the other doesn't.

This is crazy.

I've got two PRVs open in the same screenset with the same track visible in both. Settings in both PRVs are identical set to show handles. Only one is though. Both are now unlocked.

I've just drawn some modulation data in a lane in the one showing the handles, they are displayed as expected. If I switch to the other PRV I see the modulation data but with no handles.

I think I'll try and send this project to CW so they can see it for themselves. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Your screen shots and FBB's are the best evidence for a complete redo of all the MIDI in X1. Then maybe we can get a full score editor too. 

I have never seen a CC lane with the wrong CC in it before.

I think you're right John, I'm about to give up on this particular venture. Here's an absolutely crazy screenshot..........






As you can see I've got modulation data showing in the velocity lane, along with the pedal sustain data & the velocity lines, even though I've got show velocity deselected.

In the pedal sustain lane, I've just got modulation data?

Does that make any sense to anyone?

Ah, can we agree there is a bug here? I think you and Brundlefly have found a most perplexing problem. This is an important finding in that one can not be sure as the the data in the form of CCs being inputted via the PRV.

This is an important finding in that one can not be sure as the the data in the form of CCs being inputted via the PRV.

Input's not a problem. If you draw in any given lane, it will insert the correct controller type. Likewise, I don't think you can delete controllers from the wrong lane. It's just a graphical issue.

My theory being is that it might get too confusing if essentially the same data could be changed in both tracks, so therefore it can be edited in one of the tracks, but is only displayed in the other track.

I think this is touching on part of the the truth of the situation. Below is a screenshot showing two identical MIDI clips (layered acoustic and electric pianos), but on different tracks with different channels (both embedded in the events, and forced at the track output).

The second track (MIDI Ch. 11) is being displayed in the PRV, but note that I am able to show CC64 controller lanes for both tracks, just by adding another lane and specifying the channel for the other track (Ch. 1).

I was unaware until now that you could show controller lanes for a track that is not the active track in the PRV. That actually doesn't seem right. It could be useful in some ways, but only if the controller lane title showed the track name/number as well as the channel.

As an aside, note that the CC64 controllers for the second track, appear "ghosted" in both the Inline PRV and the full PRV. I discovered that this happens when I select to show the controllers in the inline PRV in the Track View, and then switch back to Notes/Velocity (see the Edit Filter button text for the two tracks). The controllers continue to show as ghosts until I switch back to Clips and back to Notes/Velocity, at which point they disappear completely as they should. I'm not sure if this is a feature or a "feature".

Ok... Went back to basics this morning

My starting point is I have two PRVs open, same track and settings assigned at this stage, one is displaying controller handles correctly the other isn't.
 
I inserted a completely new MIDI track assigned it to a separate softsynth and then opened it in the 'non-handles' PRV. Drew some CC-1 data, and...dum dum dum... No handles show.
 
So I closed both instances of the PRV and then opened the track created above in a fresh PRV and...ta da... Success controller handles are showing.
 
Lock that PRV and open a different track/synth combo in another PRV, handles show again, which has just completely blown my "2 PRVs open at the same time is the bug key" theory. I thought I had the recipe for a minute but no, I'm more confused than ever now.
 
I've unchecked the "show controller handles" option and now I can't get it to NOT show the handles. See below..................




Note velocity data appears in cc64 data lane. At least that bug is consistent.

I'm going to scream........ close the PRV and record all my controller data in future.........