Could Some Kind Soul Here PLEASE Help Me!

I know it sounds desperate and it is.  I've been struggling with s**tty sounding vocal tracks for years and I've had it!  If this doesn't improve soon I'm seriously giving up making music.  I ask you to please listen to this track: https://johnbowen.bandcamp.com/track/point-of-view
 
I know it's a bit out of my range and I'd appreciate you not rating the song or the performance.  I don't want to know.  I'm not posting the song for review.  I'd just like to know if you can help me improve the vocal track SONICALLY.  I've tried countless EQ plug ins and settings. I've tried compression. I've tried harmonic enhancers, everything.  I bought a $500.00 microphone (Avantone CV-12) and I've acoustically treated my dedicated room.  The result is what you have here, which is in my opinion a gritty, dirty sounding piece of crap!  All my vocal tracks have this sonic (un)quality.  I don't want the gritty "outer space" sounding thing this is.  I want a nice clean and clear sounding track. I can live with the bum notes, but I can no longer live with vocal tracks that sound like they're recorded off of the telephone. I've taken notice that many of the tracks that you guys upload here sound so much better than this and some of you have a cheaper mic.  Is it perhaps the lack of outboard gear that some have.  I've watched countless youtube videos on the subject but this is going nowhere.  I'm tired of wasting time and money and getting nowhere.  You are my last hope.  I will diligently try any suggestions you give.  Again, please don't review the song or performance.  I really don't want that.  I don't want hear how the instruments sound fake and that I'm straining my voice etc. I don't want to know if you love it or hate it.  Please just help me with the sound quality of the voice track.
 
Thank you so much!
John B

If you could tell us the signal chain that would help.

1. Acoustically treated dedicated room.
2. Avantone CV-12 ($500.00 microphone)
3. Balanced cable?
4. Mic preamp?
5. Compressor?
6. Soundcard?

We can really get to the bottom of this with that information.

Daibhidh

3. Balanced cable?
4. Mic preamp?
5. Compressor?
6. Soundcard?

We can really get to the bottom of this with that information.

 
I assume the mic cable is balanced.  It's the one that came with the Avantone.  I also use a very short one to go from the mics power supply to my interface, which is a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6.  I don't have a mic pre per se.  I just run the mic through the interface (aka soundcard ).  I don't use compressors.  I tried many of them.  I don't have much luck with them, especially on vocals, but that might be because I don't know what the hell I'm doing with them.  It doesn't seem to me that it should be as hard as it is to get a clean sound.  Let me ask you: What do YOU think of the sound?  Lend me your ears ().  Am I just being too hard on myself? 

Not sure if you have already tried this, or are even interested, but You may try some vocal doubling and mild reverb.  Consider also some plugins that may augment your voice, like Waves CLA vocals.  Lots of different presets to start with, some of which may be appropriate, but of course it can be fine tuned to taste.  

Johnbee58
I don't use compressors.  I tried many of them.  I don't have much luck with them, especially on vocals, but that might be because I don't know what the hell I'm doing with them.  It doesn't seem to me that it should be as hard as it is to get a clean sound...

 
It's not that easy to use compression the right way before you learn how to listen properly what they should bring to the sound. Give yourself the right amount of time watching some video lessons on how to use compression, even the free ones on youtube. You should start hearing the effect with some time spent on it.

gswitz
You can get inexpensive ribbons.

What inexpensive ribbons do you mean?
I love the sound of ribbons, always believed they are rather on the expensive side.

Cheeers gswitz. A ribbon MXL, maybe not excellent, but not bad either. One day I should try'em on overheads.
The RM-5 price range sounds more familiar. Thanks.

The CA2A isn't available at present. I get the feeling Bandlab is planning to introduce it when they reveal their new marketing model. Thus far they haven't been selling anything. But when they open the doors for business, I believe that CA2A will be there. They could do that now, but I think they have something special in the works and they want it to happen at the same time.

Clean & natural would be my words as well. Most vocal tracks are not "au naturelle", and that's the "problem". 
As mentioned in the posts above, things like compression and doubling, among others, are the secret behind most "professional" sounding vocal tracks. Maybe there's also a conflict between the reality and your own perception of how your voice sounds.

Thank so much richard, Kalle & Euthymia!
Euth-I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "thin".  I did an earlier take at approx 4" away from the mic and this one was at least 7.  I still wasn't initially happy with it, but I changed my mind a bit after giving my ears a well needed and deserved rest. I'm finding the same is true with this take.  I had at least 8 hours "rest" and this morning it sounds much better (to me) on my Walkman.
 
I seriously was considering purchasing the MXL ribbon, but Bitflipper kind of scared me away from that idea when he said a cheaper ribbon mic could make the situation worse (sorry gswitz).  You are so right that I've spent about as much on gear as  should need to.  Between the Avantone, the Auralex padding and the plugins (which include the Waves Renaissance EQ and the Waves SSL G Channel strip, among others), I've run out of patience on throwing money at this thing.  I'll consider the Bandlab option, but yes, I definitely want to avoid the trap that that poor fellow found himself in with the "rap song" issue.
 
Thanks again!
 
JB

If your not happy with the sound you hear in your head.... maybe you have not found the right microphone?
Many stores will let you borrow to try out...  I always recommend this before purchasing a microphone.

bitflipper
If I was handed that vocal track, my first thought would be "good, I don't have to do much to it". It's raw, but it's good.
 
Of course, you could effect it up but it's not that kind of vocal. Clean and natural is what I'd go for. Which doesn't mean no digital cheating. Just keep it gentle.
 
First up, some conservative pitch correction. Not across the board, just in a few places here and there where there are fast pitch changes that fall a little short. When it comes to pitch editing, less is better than more. Make all your corrections by hand, and don't touch any phrase just because it looks off in the graphic. If you're using Melodyne, also take advantage of its volume editing at this time to lower the loudest words, which will make step two easier. 
 
Next, apply compression. Cakewalk's CA2A is just what the doctor ordered. Don't be afraid to let it do 6-12 dB of compression. You might also consider two-stage compression, with the second stage running as a parallel compressor.
 
Beyond those two standard actions, it's all a matter of taste, and there are gobs of options to choose from. Double-tracking would be good, especially on the chorus. Mix the double -6 to -12 dB below the main vocal, for subtle thickening. Listen to David Gilmour's vocals on Dark Side of the Moon, which are all double-tracked but you'd never know it.
 
I would not apply a lot of reverb to this particular vocal, which would make it sound more distant and less intimate. You could, however, automate the reverb to just add a little sparkle to the end of certain phrases.
 
Another option is delay, again very subtle. If you can hear the delay, there's too much.
 
Getting a bit further out and a little less natural, consider a very light touch of chorus effect. This can be applied very, very subtly. So much so that nobody would ever guess that's what you're doing. 
 
Another neat trick with vocals is distortion. You want to be conservative, of course, but adding a little grit and/or sheen can be very effective. Even on a soft vocal like this. 
 
Oh, and don't worry about your microphone. It's plenty good enough. I love ribbons, but cheap ones can sound awful and they only worsen over time. If you want to experiment, I'd suggest instead picking up an SM-58 for a hundred bucks, or borrow one to try. Sometimes, a cheap mic is just the ticket - it's about matching the device to the voice. But again, your current mic is fine.

WOW talk about covering all the bases, excellent advice bitflipper, clear concise, accurate.


John, if I had a dollar for every time I felt or even heard of somebody never being satisfied with the sound of their own voice it would be l like I hit the Powerball Lottery.
 I have a pretty impressive mic cabinet I collected and built over the years, don't want to brag or drop names, but maybe I should trade some of them in for a new car.
 And that's something I actually should do while I still can because with today's mic manufacturing DAW technologies, spending a lot of money on anything isn't as important or critical as it used to be.
 And I'm familiar with the Avantone, Warm Audio, Audio Technica to name a few and they are as close to being silver bullet mics as any mic can be, but there is no such thing at any price range, you might as well go out and try to catch and find a Unicorn.
 Many don't realize what a great mic an SM58 is because they are so common and cheap. But that didn't stop Michael Jackson from recording mega hit albums with one, I had one for 30 years of live shows until upgrading to the Beta 58, and the only reason for that was because the SM 58 was stolen one night. But the only real thing I would consider an upgrade is the Beta is super cardioid, so it's a tad better rejecting leakage and feedback in live situations. Other great mic that are close to silver bullet vocal mics, but they don't work for everybody, and neither does any one particular piece of gear.
 
 I love the CA2A, it's so good and authentic I actually retired my Teletronix LA2A. It's actually quite superior to the original for two main reasons. It's ultimately reliable because it never needs maintenance, and I can run multiple instances, which I could never afford to do.
 I actually had 2 of them for a time with the idea of strapping both together across the output buss for stereo, but it was a real pain to get consistent results every time. I felt it was kinda like getting caught in the middle of conversation of a bickering married couple, trying getting 2 vintage analog LA2A's to play nice with each other. 
 Waves also released an excellent LA2A clone often on sale for $29 (us) which is almost as good as Cakewalk CA2A. They work and sound identical, but being the CA2A can also be used as a ProChannel module is a real game changer.
 And the TKO goes to Cakewalk!
 
 And to close, I once was driven crazy trying to get the perfect acoustic guitar sound for a very anal perfectionist client on a particular piece.
  After about a week of frustration, I had almost exhausted every possibility I could think of, a student of mine stopped by with a matched pair of Behringer C2 small condenser pencils he just bought for $60 to ask me my opinion of them. Just for the heck out it, I swapped out my extremely lovely Rode NT-5's...….
 And guess what happened? 
 
I don't know what your looking for John, but I really like what you did and how it sounded.
 And yes of course, as an engineer I would surely mix and adjust it differently the way I (personally) think it should sound, and believe me, the differences would be very subtle, but you might personally think I screwed it up.
 
Sometimes the only changes needed are in our attitudes and perspectives.
And while I'm a firm believer of being highly critical of myself as I feel you are being here, I fully understand how easy it is to fall into a pattern of never being satisfied, and that can lead to a bad place to be.

garybrun
Many stores will let you borrow to try out...  I always recommend this before purchasing a microphone.

I find this surprising given the sanitary factor.  I've heard of at least one online music retailer who has a no refund policy on microphones due to the possible spread of infection.

Cactus Music
 Your weak link is the 6i6 pre amps. 
 

The fact that you can hear my room also doesn't say much about the Auralex treatment.  They even sent me a detailed graphic on where to put them based on pics I sent them.  That was a big waste of money.  I should've stuck with my wall posters.
 
I have a Line 6 Pod Studio UX2 that I could still set up and use.  Would you suggest that?
Regarding my voice not having timbre-It used to when I was in my 30s, but now at 62 and asthmatic, that is falling apart.  I could argue that this is another "critique" but I cannot deny that my voice is crappy and is also a part of the "weak link" in my music, but there is nothing I can do about that.  The key the song is in also matters a lot to me.  I could easily bring the instrumentation down a half or whole step (it's MIDI so that's very easy) but this song is part of a "suite" in which the other song is also in A minor so linking them wouldn't sound right if I had one in  A minor and the next one in A flat.  Also I enjoy music in certain keys and transposing, at least to me, would take something away from it.  I realize this is not a very professional way to look at it, but I'm not a professional so I don't care.  I do this for fun.  If I had to take into consideration all the factors that would have to be considered to have my music "professional" it would become a task and not very enjoyable.  I can pretend I can sing good again.  Can't I?