Doktor Avalanche 
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Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips - resolved but any comments?
I have various audio tracks experiencing the same issue in the latest version of Sonar platinum. If I SOLO one of them and move the transport back and forth during playback I get some really annoying crackles when I playback a clip, and it's likely to drop out. If I change the clip to "groove clip looping" the crackles immediately disappear everything is fine. Then after that if I bounce to clips the crackles immediately come back! I have the latest firmware drivers, yada yada. I have no effects, automation or sends in this track and it doesn't appear to be a volume overload issue. Any ideas?
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/03/30 16:51:09
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/28 15:57:17
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Tried altering BounceBufSizeMsec does nothing.... Latency settings does nothing.
It's weird that it works well as a groove clip.
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GregGraves
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/28 16:07:01
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I am experiencing some odd behavior as well that I did not run into prior to Cambridge. I have been blaming it on simply running out of CPU horsepower, but in one case CPU usage was <30% .... the whole clip containing the lead guitar went completely silent when I tried to add an effect to the clip, and remained silent after removing the effect, and only by shutting down and restarting did the clip come back to life. Weird!!
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/28 16:20:27
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Looks like you have a completely different issue to me Greg and my issue has been from the start of Platinum. I have no resource issues such as CPU and it only happens with audio clips that aren't groove clips.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/29 00:24:13
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I guess this is an in an enigma otherwise I would have got a zillion suggestions by now...
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Anderton
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/29 12:17:08
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When you say "move the transport back and forth during playback" do you mean that you're scrubbing the audio?
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/29 19:34:31
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Nope... Press play... Then just jump to different areas of the track whilst it is playing (music will automatically start playing from that position). Thx
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/30 16:42:23
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I think I resolved it although there are a few mysteries! My project was set to 48/24. I decided to select a single track and do Utilities -> Change Audio Format and change the new bit depth to "24" (I ticked dither). Then it behaved (more or less) normally again...!!! This is strange - all the tracks got processed when I changed the Audio Format on a single track rather than just the one - can anybody confirm that this is this normal? ... and I still don't know what was going on before? <resolved> Now the situation has changed (which is much better but still not resolved).... I often get just one single big click when playback commences like a power surge, when I move the timeline around during playback.. which maxes out the master bus. I don't know if there's a way to silence this apart from put in a limiter. I guess it's drivers/firmware but I'm definitely on the latest. I'll try disabling hyper-threading as well (although I don't see any evidence of it being the issue in task manager)... Any other ideas please let me know!</resolved> = This was a plugin so it is resolved... Does anybody have any comments to make about the above? Thanks..
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/03/30 16:50:40
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/30 17:05:03
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CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/30 18:15:57
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I think it's probably a compressor that is peaking too much or something that needs adjusting not to worry I don't see a bug.. Thanks.
My questions are
1) Why would changing the bit depth resolve tlthe original issue via change audio format? It more or less makes sense but wondered how I got there in the first place...
2) Does 'change audio format' do it for all tracks? I selected one track.
Would be nice to hear peoples take...the issue is resolved but I want to learn from this...
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pwalpwal
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/31 08:04:54
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sonar doesn't have gapless playback any more, so clicking about in the timeline during playback can cause such glitches, etc, no idea about the format change impact, probably exposing/resolving some obscure bug?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/31 08:22:26
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In my experience, Platinum is as close to gapless as any version of Sonar has ever been.
I can save projects, change screensets, launch plugins, edit Midi data and tweak automation with barely a glitch.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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pwalpwal
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/31 08:27:18
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Brando
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/31 09:47:31
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pwalpwal
fair enough, but "barely a glitch" implies some gapping ;-) ... it's now no longer a marketing pitch like it was for v5 or v6 was it? here's a fred wrt to getting gapless in x1 http://forum.cakewalk.com/Tip-of-the-day-How-you-get-GAPLESSAUDIOENGINE-with-SONAR-X1-m2475443.aspx
Yes but "Sonar doesn't have gapless playback anymore" implies that something has changed. Platinum is at least as solid as any other version. I personally would call it gapless. The reason it is no longer a marketing pitch is because they have reached the point of diminishing returns. Other than this thread who mentions it anymore?
Brando
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pwalpwal
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/31 10:06:18
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Brando
pwalpwal
fair enough, but "barely a glitch" implies some gapping ;-) ... it's now no longer a marketing pitch like it was for v5 or v6 was it? here's a fred wrt to getting gapless in x1 http://forum.cakewalk.com/Tip-of-the-day-How-you-get-GAPLESSAUDIOENGINE-with-SONAR-X1-m2475443.aspx
Yes but "Sonar doesn't have gapless playback anymore" implies that something has changed. Platinum is at least as solid as any other version. I personally would call it gapless.
i use sonar, live and studio one, sonar exhibits the most "gapping" when compared to these 2. you can call it what you like but in my experience it is no longer "gapless" compared to earlier versions, so yes, it does indeed imply that something has changed, and if i were to speculate i'd speculate it's to do with "skylight" Brando
The reason it is no longer a marketing pitch is because they have reached the point of diminishing returns. Other than this thread who mentions it anymore?
people who want to make changes while the transport is running? it's no longer a marketing pitch because it can't be backed up by example
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/31 10:40:41
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That's not entirely true though.
As I stated above, I can do lots of stuff in Sonar with the transport running and it is "virtually glitch free", meaning - the transport doesn't stop, doesn't dropout and keeps on running with everything in sync (which if you think about it, is a minor miracle)
It's not perfect, but what software is, especially when the program is also trying to maintain sample accurate playback?
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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pwalpwal
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/31 10:44:06
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/31 11:59:21
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What's gapless got to do with rerendering my audio?
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/31 21:44:25
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Hijacked!
Well there you go.... I'll never know.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/31 21:58:35
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Guess I'll try and start a new thread tomorrow. Very fraustating exactly the same happened here: http://forum.cakewalk.com..aspx?m=3198545&fp=8Although admittedly I wasn't the OP however the questions got somewhat diluted so I never got the full answer :)
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/31 21:58:36
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John
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/03/31 23:53:46
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Doktor Avalanche
I think I resolved it although there are a few mysteries!
My project was set to 48/24.
I decided to select a single track and do Utilities -> Change Audio Format and change the new bit depth to "24" (I ticked dither). Then it behaved (more or less) normally again...!!!
This is strange - all the tracks got processed when I changed the Audio Format on a single track rather than just the one - can anybody confirm that this is this normal?
... and I still don't know what was going on before?
<resolved>
Now the situation has changed (which is much better but still not resolved)....
I often get just one single big click when playback commences like a power surge, when I move the timeline around during playback.. which maxes out the master bus. I don't know if there's a way to silence this apart from put in a limiter. I guess it's drivers/firmware but I'm definitely on the latest. I'll try disabling hyper-threading as well (although I don't see any evidence of it being the issue in task manager)... Any other ideas please let me know!
</resolved> = This was a plugin so it is resolved...
Does anybody have any comments to make about the above?
Thanks..
What was the recorded bit depth? What was the previous bit depth of the file you changed?
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/04/01 00:04:56
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Appeared to be the same John I checked it beforehand in the audio folder. The only thing I can think of is maybe something screwed up upgrading from x3... But wav should be independent?
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John
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/04/01 00:26:44
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OK I'm not understanding this. You didn't have a different bit depth of the recorded files. So why change it?
When recording in Sonar audio from a sound card it should be set to 24 bits. You can later render at any bit depth you wish but you should record at 24 bits. This is the most any card can provide and will give the best results.
If you record at 16 bits you need to record hot without clipping. 24 bits lets you record a lower audio signal with no noise. Its much easier.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/04/01 00:32:48
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Exactly ! Why would I! And yet somehow this stopped the crackles..! I worked out there had to be some reason why groove clips were working fine which led me to try it... (check the original post for symptoms). I was always on 24 before and after (check the post you quoted).
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/04/01 00:41:04
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/04/01 00:37:30
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Maybe it clears up some metadata or something by resampling at the same bitrate? Whatever it is it's extremely weird.
The fact that 'bounce to clips' did nothing either???
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John
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/04/01 00:44:38
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We seem to be going around in circles. If you are recording at 24 bits there is no reason to change it. Sometimes crackling is due to an overload of a plugin. Sonar itself wont clip with either the 32 bit FP audio or 64 bit audio engine. Yet some few plugins can't handle an overload. This is really a clipping problem of a plugin.
At present I don't know the cause of your crackling. Check any and all plugins to see if its getting hammered. A quick way to check is lower all the levels on all your tracks. See what what happens.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/04/01 00:54:28
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Nope John... This was always a weird issue whereby groove clips wouldn't crackle and bounced clips would. It is not a plugin issue (I tested this by disabling all plugins). This was fully resolved by resampling from 24bit WAV to 24 bit WAV. . this definately cleared up the issue. (As I said the issue is resolved I just have mysteries to learn from). Yes it is weird. I guess we put it down to project glitch and nobody has ever seen this? Also all the tracks got processed when I changed the Audio Format on a single track - can you or anybody confirm that this is this normal? Thankyou...
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/04/01 01:04:26
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mettelus
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/04/01 01:05:17
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The resampling is curious. Are there actual duplicates in the audio folder though? If so can check them for differences, but I have never actually used that process before. There should be two files for each if modified in any way.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Crackle with bounced clips but not with groove clips.
2015/04/01 01:07:56
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Now that's interesting. I checked it with a backup. If there are two wavs maybe I compared the wrong ones, I assumed there would only be one... I'll check tomorrow thanks
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