Who is the CHB? They must be famous if someone's doing a cover of one of their tunes.
 
Really, this is great! I like it!

Hey, Danny,


This is absolutely dynamite!  Monster tone, killer solos, great vocals and a clean, pro sounding mix.

I really love the melodic break around the halfway point before the first shred solo, perfect lead-in to the solo and the cool slow down effect.


Very tasty stuff, buddy, nice work! 
Bob

Bob: Thanks a lot....glad you liked it...appreciate the listen. We should get together sometime and play/write man...I'm in NJ about an hour or so from you. I actually play up your way every once in a while with my cover band...we should definitely hook up at some point. Thanks again for the listen and kind words. :)

-Danny

Hi Bob, I do remember that conversation now! Hahaha ole Geets is still here to this day. They actually turned it into a night club in the back. Ah man it sure would be great to hang out...and nah man, dinner would be on me. :) But I thank you for that offer. We actually do a place called McStews in Levittown...yeah still probably 2 hours from you...we used to play a place in Wilkes-Barre (forget the name at the moment) but they stopped booking bands...and we used to play The Silo in Reading all the time. The guy that used to manage it is booking us into his new room in Reading...not sure when that will be or what it's called...my singer handles all that and talked to him last week. But if that happens...that may be closer for you? I'll send you a pm or something and you can see if it's do-able. We do the Levittown gig at least once a month though because they love us over there.

Thanks for the kind words man...feelings are mutual....thanks again for the props on the tune...talk to you soon Bob! :)

-Danny

uh oh..

LOL !!!!  

Karyn: I soo knew you'd crack up over that. :)

Geno: don't be sorry to bring it up. In this particular thread, the 80's discussion that unfolded here was one of the best ones I've ever been a part of. Karyn has been an excellent teacher in the way she's explained it on here and it's opened my eyes as well. Check it out....

You and I love the guitar tone we have, right? We were pretty much influenced by the 80's guys. No matter what we play when we use those tones we love....we're going to have a hint of the 80's in us. Unless we change our tones completely to what is considered modern today as well as some of our tehcniques...we're going to sound like us with an 80's vibe. Would you be happy with one of the newer tones and using less technique than you do? I wouldn't either...lol...so, see...we're happy with what we do...so it's always going to sound a bit 80's influenced.

Let's take a look at how we both sing. You and I come from the vocal school of "clean and dynamic".  We don't get that Chris Cornell, Scott Wyland, dude from Creed, Nickelback or Disturbed typed of sound. So right away, due to our cleaner vocal delivery and vibrato to match the tempo of the song...it's got an 80's vibe because a lot of the good singers we know and love from that time had that. Let's face it...the closest you or I could probably come to as far as more modern singing goes would be Layne from Alice in Chains (God rest his incredible singing soul) ya know what I mean? Listen to you sing Journey or your original stuff. Name one singer that is current today that sings like that. Name one other than maybe the singer from Dishwalla that sang close to that in the 90's? See what I mean? So when we do what we do...and you compare it to what it going on today...it's easy to spot in seconds "Danny and Geno definitely have that 80's thing going on". It doesn't mean we're bad...it doesn't mean we're dated...it just means we don't sound like what is considered "the in thing" of today.

A few listens to our guitar playing....and well, we're gonna get the label bro unless we go against everything we've trained ourselves to do over the years. Do you want a more raw tone that is a bit harsh and abrasive like the stuff we hear today? Do you really want a guitar onslaught of orchestrated guitars that engulf the stereo field so much that it's all you hear and your vocals suffer to where they can be heard but not felt like you do them now? Me personally...I'd not want that at all. Could we do it? Sure...but then we have to ask ourselves...."are we just trying to keep up with the times over being true to ourselves?"

I've always been a guy that has been against the word "Sell-out". I've gotten into so many confrontations online when I've seen those two words....I can't even begin to tell you. In my eyes...doing something for the sake of survival in this economy or radically changing is not selling out. Doing something you absolutely HATE for the sake of a paycheck, IS. I think people got it backwards. So if you and I changed what we did and hated every minute of it just so we could possibly get people to stop mentioning "80's" in our work....would it really make you happy? Me neither brother. Instead, what I like to at least consider myself doing is....playing to my strengths doing what I do best while attempting to deliver it in a more modern way.

We know not to use reverb loaded drums with that arena type sound. We know not to load up our guitars and vocals with long tails of verb...we know all the no no's that immediately make a recording sound 80's due to the production. However, if we are happy with how and what we play...and it happens to have an 80's flair...I sincerely don't see that as a bad thing. You know as well as I that one thing the 80's was good for...was being a guitar player. Sure, some of the stuff was over-kill and in bad taste...but we can say that about every genre, ya know? I'm proud to be able to play a few things and see the awesome compliments from others respecting what I can do. I know you feel the same way. The first thing we need to accept is....us man. Sometimes people are brutal when they bring up the 80's calling is "c-rock" or "hair metal" etc. I always hated hearing stuff like that because to me, it went further than that. But that said, I can't expect people to love it like I did or even take the incredible inspiration from it that I/we did, ya know?

At the end of the day man....you are one talented dude. No one can take that away from you no matter what they try to do. You sing like a God, you play like one, you write like one and you always deliver the goods and will be regarded as one of the best musicians on this forum. Whether it has a 70's, 80's or present vibe to it...there's no mistaking the dedication and passion you have put into your craft. At the end of the day, that's all any of us really wants. Just to be accpeted and or appreciated....and hopefully respected even if what we do isn't something others are down with.

I know for a fact that several that have commented on my song here...are not fans of metal. They didn't have to comment at all because of that...yet, they found it in their hearts to appreciate what I did here even if it wasn't a style they listen to often or enjoy. It would have been all too easy to say "well, this really isn't a style I listen to" but no one said that. It tells me true musicians spoke from their hearts and accepted something that is different than what they are normally into.

At any rate, thanks to Karyn and this discussion we had in this thread...it's changed how I think and how I feel. It's opened up things for me that I never really thought of. Let's face it and be honest about something. We may be 80's influenced or whatever the case....we both know it hasn't been easy for us to do what we do whether people like it or not. We spent a lot of time being polished. It doesn't make us the best or better than anyone else...just different with a different group of influences as well as our practice discipline. So it's all good brother...some of the best bands of all time came out of the 70's and 80's in my opinion. I'm happy to be influenced by that time and wouldn't want it any other way...would you? :)

-Danny

This Kicks Butt........................ love the guitar riffs.
 
Really killer all the way around,  Fabulous mix.
 
Tim

quote: guitartrek: "I'm also one that gets labeled - 80's and sometimes 70's (ouch!). But I just do what I like and if people dig it that's cool and if not that's cool too."


Big +1 for me and my music, and I just kind of try to wear it as a badge of honor! I believe our early influences from our formative years always shine through and are always a big part of who we are.


quote: Danny Danzi: "You and I come from the vocal school of "clean and dynamic". We don't get that Chris Cornell, Scott Wyland, dude from Creed, Nickelback or Disturbed typed of sound. So right away, due to our cleaner vocal delivery and vibrato to match the tempo of the song...it's got an 80's vibe because a lot of the good singers we know and love from that time had that."


+1 count me in again.  You're preaching to the choir, buddy, in my cover bands, it actually used to drive me a little nuts to have to force myself into "modern deep, scratchy" vocal mode for a lot of the recent metal stuff, and I had to carefully plan out when to sing certain songs during the night to not blow my voice for the clean, higher stuff.  But, I think in the end, it made me more versatile singing wise, to be able to switch from different ranges and timbres and back again throughout the night for many years.


My whole goal for my original music when I joined this forum was to try to learn how to fuse together my favorite 80's hair metal style with the newer more modern production used on today's hard rock and metal.  Sort of like a smashup of Judas Priest, AC/DC and Dokken mixed and produced similarly to Disturbed, Godsmack and Papa Roach, Breaking Benjamin, etc.  I think that after learning a ton of stuff from many knowledgeable people on the forum, I'm finally having some luck squashing that general idea into something that falls in between both extremes.


Sorry, Danny, not trying to hijack your thread, but like Geno, I too, avoided the 80's discussion earlier, and just wanted to let you know that I agree wholeheartedly.  After first purchasing Sonar, the main reason I wandered down here to the Songs Forum was to try to adapt my songwriting and recording to the more modern hard rock/metal type of stuff, while keeping the root influences intact.


Thanks, Danny, Karyn, Tim and Geno, etc. for a very interesting, informative discussion that I've always wanted to post about in the Techniques forum.


Also, once again, dynamite song, Danny!
Bob

timidi


Well said Danny. And I must say, my kudos go out to the following on this tune:
Lyrics: Philz & bapu 
Inspiration and borrowed bridge part: Steve Strummer UK 
"Batman"- like rhythm part: inspired by ohGrant (written for another song) 
Vocal Inspiration: Philz 
Freaky synth lines performed by: Philz 

Thanks Tim...my thoughts exactly about the above ^. I know I sure wouldn't have been able to come up any of these melodies, the words or the inspiration without the aforementioned gentleman and I mean that sincerely from my heart. I've never come close to a song like this in all my years. It was a nice challenge for me and was totally different than anything I had ever done. I say "I" because without these guys...I can assure you it never would have sounded like this nor would I have ever thought about writing a piece like this on my own. That's the truth so help me God. :)
 
-Danny

excellent!  love it!  (but yeah, I'm a child of the '80's too! )

****in' awesome!!!

Jason

Elepha3: Thanks for listening.

Frank: Thanks a lot. Actually, I wish they were proud. LOL! (I'm sure they are in a sense, but they know what I mean lol) They were proud of me for what I played and came up with as an individual as well as how I incorporated their ideas. They respected what I did as well as the performance etc. But it really wasn't a style they were down with once I changed it from the original version. It wasn't the same song any longer, the meaning of the words had changed and the commerciality I added in probably put another nail in my coffin. But they were kind enough to let me release this and I'm truly grateful for that. Phil and I had put a lot of work into it and then I just took it and went pretty drastic near the end. It's like they had this other song....and I wrote something else from the other song just to say "hey, what do you think of this as a possible alternative?" Any time that happens, it's tough to just "accept" the new thing when you have feelings for the original version. When you present something so different...sometimes your guys aren't going to feel the same way about it because the different tune just changes their mind/vibe, ya know?

In this case...I altered it so much it just wasn't a style/flavor they wanted to be a part of and I respect them for that. Kinda like how I bowed out from the original version due to the style not being for me and I just couldn't feel I could help enhance it...that's how they felt about this version I did. You know how it goes...sometimes inspiration for one is not the same inspiration for another or an entire group. I know Phil was totally stoked about this version though. Hopefully at some point the CHB will release their version which is really cool. It has a darker mood, is more musically stimulating...it takes you on a way different journey, and it's just different than this one. Most of all....they wrote the REAL one. Though I tried hard, some things are better left alone. :) I do appreciate them being great guys and allowing me to let people hear what I came up with though even if the tune wasn't totally to their liking. Thanks again, glad you enjoyed it. :) 

-Danny

mgh: I hear ya...I like the wall of sound also, don't get me wrong...but you'll notice on the cleaner stuff...or when you have more of a vocal type approach...sometimes it can be a little over-kill. At least that's how it seems on my end for MY voice and how I sing, ya know? Like...I know you do the scream thing really well...but you also shwocased a pretty awesome vocal talent in your last tune. You'll notice that when you sing like that....you know, a bit more melodic and phrase-pretty so to speak (ok, pretty isn't the right word..lol..but you know what I mean) that the guitar onslaught thing definitely can make your mix harder to get a handle on. On the screamier things or the things that may be a little less dynamic or melodically phrased...the loads of guitars just seems to work better. For you, it may work better no matter what you do. I've made the layered guitar thing work for other people that had incredible vocals...but it just doesn't seem to work for me when I sing. LOL!

Yeah I too love the sound Nevermore gets. And you're right...it's definitely about the mix...but the other side of it is the instrumentation you choose to be in the mix, ya know? Thanks for the kind words brother. :)

-Danny

Rimshot


Hi Danny,

This production was great and I love your guitar work!  Your leads and arrangement is spot on.  You said when you listen to a song you either like it or don't.  Seems like on this forum we can state our feelings good or bad and then comment on details.  What you produced was so right.  I might have used a single voice for the verses and then the double in the chorus to hear the emotion better.  Snare drum seemed dry and might have used a little more bottom mic for some air and rattle maybe?  You did great and I can learn alot from your mixing style.

Rimshot

Hi Rimshot,
 
Thanks for the kind words and the listen. That actually is a single voice in the verses...lol...it's just effected with some pitch transposer stuff in attempt to make it a little more weird and trippy. It has a pitch transposer as well as Clone Ensemble so it sounds like it has more voices than there really is. I was actually trying to cop the sound that Phil had originally come up with when he sang on the original version.
 
As for the snare....that's just a personal preference of mine. I like a nice, poppy snare that cracks through and I find that a bit more bottom head can make it a bit too boxey and stop it from cracking through at all times. I did have a little more bottom on it in one of my mix versions...but it just seemed like it didn't crack through enough and was a bit too thick and dark for me for this particular song.
 
As for the dry part...I actually backed down the verb on the snare in fear of it sounding too 80's. LOL!!! My usual snare sound is a bit more wet than this but again...for this particular tune, I felt in places...less was more, ya know? Thanks very much for your critique and comments...noted on this end for next time. :)
 
-Danny