Helpful ReplyDeEsser in Sonar

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pinguinotuerto
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2016/09/26 17:34:27 (permalink)

DeEsser in Sonar

Hey guys,
Do we have a good DeEsser in Sonar? The Waves one is on sale today only and before I buy it I just wanted to make sure that I'm not throwing my money away. Thanks.

P.S. I know we have the Nomad one in Sonar and I tried it, but it didn't solve my problem. It could be that I don't know how to use it properly. I just don't know if it's any better than the Waves.

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#1
Sheanes
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 17:39:51 (permalink)
hi, in X3 there is this plugin (VST) : VX64 Vocal Strip.
First thing on the left side of the plugin you'll find a DeEsser.
 
#2
pinguinotuerto
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 17:43:12 (permalink)
Duh!!!! Forgot that one. Would still like to know from someone who has the Waves if it's any better than what we have. Thanks for reminding me.

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#3
Zargg
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 17:53:28 (permalink)
Hi. I have the Waves De-esser, and it is really nice.
I also have the UAD Precision De-esser, which is also really nice.
But I have no problems using the VX-64, or the BT one any day. Or would not have any problems if I did not have the others. But then again, I am no pro.
All the best.
post edited by Zargg71 - 2016/09/26 18:17:23

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#4
pinguinotuerto
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 17:54:42 (permalink)
Thanks Zargg!

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#5
pinguinotuerto
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 17:58:41 (permalink)
I think I just need to keep playing with it to figure it out. Just haven't been able to get the sibilance out of a vocal.

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#6
Zargg
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 17:59:12 (permalink)
I would say I like the Waves one better than UAD's.
Before I got the 3rd party ones, I used VX-64 de-esser almost exclusively.

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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 18:45:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby ...wicked 2016/09/29 13:31:49
I jut don't ing uing " ' "
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 18:52:15 (permalink)


Ken Nilsen
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#9
Base 57
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 19:00:07 (permalink)
    This takes some time but I prefer to edit the clip. You can use a clip envelope but I have a keybinding to Gain and highlight the offending sss and destructively reduce the volume of the sibilance. With a little practice you can get through a track pretty quickly.
#10
pinguinotuerto
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 19:05:11 (permalink)
Base 57
    This takes some time but I prefer to edit the clip. You can use a clip envelope but I have a keybinding to Gain and highlight the offending sss and destructively reduce the volume of the sibilance. With a little practice you can get through a track pretty quickly.

That's how I've dealt with them in the past. I think I'm going back to that method. Thanks for mentioning it. I've just been trying to do things the "proper" way lately. Trying to learn how to use new tools. In this case, I don't think there's a DeEsser that can fix this. Lol.

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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 19:31:48 (permalink)
Base 57
    This takes some time but I prefer to edit the clip. You can use a clip envelope but I have a keybinding to Gain and highlight the offending sss and destructively reduce the volume of the sibilance. With a little practice you can get through a track pretty quickly.


+1

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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 20:27:32 (permalink)
I'm with Base 57. But for the amp sim fans in the crowd, a de-esser before an amp sim can work miracles.

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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 20:37:42 (permalink)
Anderton
I'm with Base 57. But for the amp sim fans in the crowd, a de-esser before an amp sim can work miracles.


I'm going to have to try that.

For de-essing I use the Eiosis E2.
post edited by SF_Green - 2016/09/26 23:27:11

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TheMaartian
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 20:40:14 (permalink)
I have Waves Deesser, but don't use it. I prefer HoRNet's Sybilla Pro (€21.99). Well worth the money. No copy protection.
 
Details: http://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/hornet-sybilla-pro/
 

 
From the web page:
 
Sybilla Pro is a multi filter de-esser, unlike other traditional de-essers Sybilla Pro has 8 different tunable filters to effectively find the offending sibilance and feed the compressor that will reduce it.
 
Sybilla Pro is a wideband de-esser, the compressor stage is driven by the sum of the output of the active filters above the threshold so that if the sibilance moves in frequency Sybilla Pro can follow it and never miss it.
 
Another peculiarity of this plug-in is that the threshold is not fixed, but relative to the signal, the compressor is driven by the sum of the filters which is computed against the unfiltered signal, this difference is then used as key for the compressor. What happens with this kind of processing is that de-essing takes places even in softer passages where with traditional fixed threshold de-essers the signal must be above the set threshold for de-essing to take place.
 
The heart of the plugin is the filters bank, here you can set the frequency and level of each filter individually, the bandwidth will always be 1KHz for each filter. For fine tuning you can listen to the output of the filter bank or each filter individually using the key listen buttons.

Each filter can be turned on and off, when turned off the filter is disabled and won’t be considered as compressor sidechain.
 
Sybilla Pro offers two compression flavors, VCA and OPTO, the first is snappier and has a hard knee, while the second is slower with a soft knee, for each of the modes attack and release can be set.
post edited by TheMaartian - 2016/09/26 21:05:54

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#15
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 20:44:17 (permalink)
I also automate a lot of my sibilance issues. zooming in hard on SSS and SHHH, after a while you know what to look for (they look like little zippers) lower the zippers by 3-5 dB. other offenders include / but not limited to:
TTT= as in Tom, FFF= as in Freak, CCCC= as in Can.
 
this also lightens the load on your compressor which seems to amplify sibilance problems.

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#16
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 22:12:01 (permalink)
The HoRNet's Sybilla Pro sounds nice - I've been using my own multi-step process to try do accomplish that, but a single unit would be nice!  I have used more than one de-esser (typically VX64 and BT) set to different frequencies - at least for me this seems to have worked.  Using the switch to hear the only the filtered sibilance helps hone in on the frequency, but it seems to me that sometimes it takes more than one filtered frequency to reduce the sibilance.  Sometimes I use one de-esser on the track and one on the buss that collects the offending track(s), again at different frequencies.  On occasion I throw an EQ on with a sharp notch filter at the worst frequency, and turn it on/off just around the "S".  
 
But as has been said, I'm no pro either.  Don't even play one on TV.

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pinguinotuerto
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 22:33:09 (permalink)
Lots of good advice and tips here! Thanks to everyone!

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#18
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/26 23:20:29 (permalink)
I think When I got Spat 2015 it came with AD2, at the bottom of my XLN account page I got Nectar elements for free. That has an easy to use DeEsser.
 
 
re deit, it came with AD1 and X3 producer..  so you should have Emaments under "my products"
post edited by Passive Drift - 2016/09/26 23:57:56

Hay look,
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/27 11:27:19 (permalink)
The LP Multiband is great for De-Essing too.

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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/28 11:31:40 (permalink)
LJB
The LP Multiband is great for De-Essing too.




I'll add that the Sonitus multiband will work too. Bypass the lower bands and keep the highest one active
and set its frequency to about 3K to start. Set ratio for about 3 dB of reduction to start. Set threshold so that the "s" sounds are compressing.
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/28 13:14:02 (permalink)
When it comes to deesser, one should check out tonbooster silbalance. It is very cheap and sounds wonderful!
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/29 01:39:59 (permalink)
mikedocy
LJB
The LP Multiband is great for De-Essing too.




I'll add that the Sonitus multiband will work too. Bypass the lower bands and keep the highest one active
and set its frequency to about 3K to start. Set ratio for about 3 dB of reduction to start. Set threshold so that the "s" sounds are compressing.



 
+1 on both. The Sonitus multiband is what I use for "de-essing" on guitar most of the time.

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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/29 09:19:34 (permalink)
Nomad
Just take some time to twist knobs and get to know it a bit. Although I understand that sometimes time does not allow for on the spot experimentation in the middle of a time sensitive project. It will do the job , just takes some finessing in the tweak department.
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/29 09:26:34 (permalink)
I think de-essing should be outlawed on the grounds of Phonetic Discrimination.
I may even start my own Phonetically Correct brigade!
 
De-breath plug ins on the other hand....
post edited by Hatstand - 2016/09/29 09:53:14

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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/29 10:11:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2016/09/29 23:46:50
I've tried a few de-essers, but seem to keep coming back to doing it using old-style side-chained compression.

Clone the offending vocal track, set the output to an aux channel. Eq that track to emphasise the sibilance, preferably so it contains as little content other than sibilance as possible. Then mute the aux.

Put a compressor on the "real" vocal track and side-chain it to the sibilance track, then adjust the compressor and sibilance track fader until the result is as good as it can be. A few more steps than doing it all in a single plugin, but allows the choice of any compressor that has a side-chain.

The even more old-fashioned 1930s-50s way of dealing with sibilants was for singers to change how they vocalised words that begin with an s, singing almost an "sh" sound instead, which puts the tongue at the bottom of the mouth not the top (where it is with an "s") and greatly reducing the whistling caused by directing air out of the top of the mouth and through the teeth.

Crooners seem to have suffered most from sibilance, maybe as a side-effect of the style, and although neother crooned, extreme use of the technique resulted in the shound that is often ashoshiated with shingersh like Jimmy Durante, or Richie Barrett's rendering of "Shome Other Guy".

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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/29 11:24:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2016/09/29 23:46:46
tried a dynamic eq, seemed a good option as you can just cut above a treshold where the sssss get's bad.
but couldn't get an attack/release right, like always....so just editing clips for me.
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/29 13:15:27 (permalink)
SF_Green
For de-essing I use the Eiosis E2.

I have that one too.
 
TheMaartian
I prefer HoRNet's Sybilla Pro (€21.99). Well worth the money. No copy protection.

 

I also have that one too.


 
Both of those work nicely. Of course I have the de-esser in UAD and Waves too. If I can't solve my de-essing with what I have I'll just give up right now.
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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/29 20:18:43 (permalink)
Another vote for waves de-Esser. I got mine at audiodeluxe on sale for $25.00. No brainer...

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Re: DeEsser in Sonar 2016/09/29 21:39:28 (permalink)
Re-read tlw's method. It's old-school and it's not as convenient as dropping in a de-esser, but I guarantee it'll handle even the most difficult tracks that would confound most dedicated de-essers. 




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