ASG
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Do you prefer macs or PC's?
Before anyone accuses me of being a sheep let me just say i know where i stand on this issue. at this point in my life Im a pc guy and i love it. But it seems like everytime i talk to somebody about my studio, they question me- no they interrogate me as to why i dont own a mac. Because apparently, you cant make music if you dont own a mac (sarcasm). Im 19, just about everyone who comes by is around my age also, and when I ask them what makes mac so much better than pc, they always give me a list of features that dont even have anything to do with making music. Or they say "oh my buddy told me..." Im a strong believer in sticking to what you know, but to be fair, i really dont know enough about macs to judge them. Please tell me the pros and cons of recording on each, and why
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Rain
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 01:01:51
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Strictly for recording, mixing and such - none. All that you can do on a Mac, you can do on a PC and vice versa.
I've used PCs for over 10 years and switched to Mac for different reasons. Compatibility reasons and my app of choice being Mac only among other things.
To me the switch resulted in less tweaking, more music - no complex install procedures - installing applications in many cases is as simple as dragging and dropping it on your HD - no need to constantly close and restart applications anytime you change a little something or hook a new peripheral, no tweaking and optimizing your OS all the time. It really did simplify everything. But in terms of "capacities" - nope.
Incidentally, talk to anyone who has recently made the switch from XP to Windows 7 and ask them what makes 7 a better OS than XP for music - you'll hear the exact same thing Mac users have been telling PC users for years.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 05:59:09
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I applaud the simplicity of running a Mac and the fact that this has resulted in many 'industry' standard creative applications being native on that platform, particularly true in publishing and media.
However the prices are prohibitive and the options for setting up a bespoke system tailored for my particular needs have always been limited on the Apple platform.
The finished results acheived on either platform is unlikely to differ provided you are using the right tools for the job at hand.
For brute force bang for buck and the flexibility of being able to swap out generic components for example makes the PC the best value choice for my personal requirements, but if a company was employing me to run their Mac based systems I'd be perfectly happy working in either environment.
Stability and ease of use haven't been a particular issue for me for a long while, but given my upgrade schedule and cost of ownership figures I've worked out that I've saved a substantial amount of money in the last 9 years by sticking with PC's.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Jonbouy
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 06:07:39
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Aaaaaaarrrrrrggghhhh! Did I just comment in a PC vs MAC debate? What is happening to me, where did the life I once had go?  Am I now condemned to a life that will see me discussing the merits of particular mobile handsets in the future? Stop the Apple PC World I want to get off.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/09/06 06:13:25
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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jackn2mpu
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 08:08:36
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I've used both for decades now and have reached the point, as Rain says that I find Macs much easier to work with than the mess that is Windoze. No more gotcha configuration problems like one has in a Winbox, all the hardware is pretty much guaranteed to work together, you name it. If you want to play IT person with all the herd riding you have to do with a pc, then by all means stick with it.
Not saying you can't make music on a pc; after all ProTools runs on that platform albeit not as well as on a Mac - it's just that once you make the transition and really LEARN the Mac OS than you're good to go. That's the biggest problem I see with people who say they've tried Macs - they really don't bother to learn the system. And remember that Logic is not the only Mac platform daw, contrary to what Freddie thinks. You've got that, as well as PT, Cubase/Nuendo, the essentially free Reaper, and one heck of a good daw in Digital Performer.
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jcschild
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 09:37:06
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oh boy...
fanboy bias aside. which so far this thread has not had much of YET.
1) the hardwaare for all intents is exactly the same with some minor differences. so it comes down to the OS. the Apple is a PC.
2) Apple is and always will be more than a windows system and usually by a lot.
3) ALL cross platform software runs better on a windows system from a benchmarked POV fact not fiction.
4) if you buy an off the shelf computer or possible DYI then there is some potential for this statement a good potential
" I find Macs much easier to work with than the mess that is Windoze."
and this has nothing to do with the OS but bad choices in hardware
5)if you buy a purpose built for audio windows system then this statement has absolutely no leg to stand on. and its still less than Apple by a good amount.
6) if you need Logic or DP (the only 2 software that count) you have no option.
however Cubase and for the most part Sonar can replace and in some respects be better. (dont bother mentioning Final Cut as thats now a joke a very sad one)
7) the all so wonderful Apple OS has issues and needs a complete code re-write, it fails misserably in its ability to correctly multi-thread
(really only evident on 16-24 core systems) see #3
8) Apples "look" is definately more elegant than anything i can put together but also severly limited in expansion ability.
9) contrary to popular belief Apple OS does crash and does have issues
10) i never had issues with XP, now if you want to talk about win 98 and prior yeah..
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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jackn2mpu
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 10:17:01
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jcschild
4) if you buy an off the shelf computer or possible DYI then there is some potential for this statement a good potential
" I find Macs much easier to work with than the mess that is Windoze."
and this has nothing to do with the OS but bad choices in hardware
5)if you buy a purpose built for audio windows system then this statement has absolutely no leg to stand on. and its still less than Apple by a good amount.
8) Apples "look" is definately more elegant than anything i can put together but also severly limited in expansion ability.
As to #4 - the software is the entry to the hardware and if that software sucks then the hardware has nothing to do with it. From my point of view (and others) Macs are MUCH easier to work with based on what I just said. Your #5 - it has nothing to do with whether a system is purpose built or not. It could be the most fantastic and least expensive hardware but again if the interface to that hw sucks, then there's a problem. And #6 - care to explain how Macs are more limited in expansion capability? I'm talking MacPro desktops and not laptops. Macs have pcie slots, same as better Winboxes. So you've got essentially the same expandability.
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jcschild
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 10:31:11
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i have no clue what you are talking about with 4 and 5... you are not making any sense.
i have no issues with interfaces etc working on windows that magically work on Apple? please define?
6) ummm only 4 total HDDs, only 3 PCIe slots no PCI lets say i want 3 UAD2 and 2 RME interfaces... lets see you do that in an Apple..
you are starting to sound like a fanboy and not objective..
and why are you in this forum (sonar) if you use an Apple. last i checked Sonar does not run on OSX.
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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jackn2mpu
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 11:02:55
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jcschild
i have no clue what you are talking about with 4 and 5... you are not making any sense.
i have no issues with interfaces etc working on windows that magically work on Apple? please define?
6) ummm only 4 total HDDs, only 3 PCIe slots no PCI lets say i want 3 UAD2 and 2 RME interfaces... lets see you do that in an Apple..
you are starting to sound like a fanboy and not objective..
and why are you in this forum (sonar) if you use an Apple. last i checked Sonar does not run on OSX.
to your first statement: you have no clue? How much of a clue does it take to understand that if the way one interacts with the hardware (computer) is with the software (os) and said sw is a pain to work with then how good can the experience be? No pci? no big deal as that's essentially an old slot spec. Not enough expansion for drives and such? Maybe not in one box but what about Magma expansion boxes? That'll give you everything you need. And if you want more hard drives you can always plug in an eSata card and add drives that way. Like I said - you just have to be familiar with the platform and give it an honest shake (which most here won't/don't/can't). Why do I post in this forum if I use a Mac? If you'd bother to READ what I wrote I said I use both platforms. And I still do use Sonar 8.3.1 (on a pc) for old projects. Just because I don't solely use a pc I can't post here? That's ridiculous. Do I have to be objective to state an opinion? Hell no. Just because I defend Macs doesn't necessarily make me a fanboy. And if it does then your defense of the Windows platform makes you just as much a fanboy of that platform.
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jcschild
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 11:15:13
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still not understanding what the heck you are talking about..
your comments do not make any sense
are you saying how the OS talks to the computer hardware? or audio hardware
again seems windows does a better job for that see #3 and #7
magma chassis LOL great more money down the tubes you didnt need to spend.. as if Apple was not enough $ already.
ahh you still use windows/sonar ok..
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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Rain
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 11:30:53
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"if you buy an off the shelf computer or possible DYI then there is some potential for this statement a good potential " I find Macs much easier to work with than the mess that is Windoze." and this has nothing to do with the OS but bad choices in hardware." That is part of the reasoning. If you buy a Mac, you don't worry about bad hardware choice - these are preconfigured machines, and there is a standard because there's one manufacturer, whereas for PCs, you have Dell and all the others, each with their own strengths. With mac, your choices are good, better, even better. But any of these will work. Incidentally, not too many people serious about making music on the PC will recommend you to buy a generic preconfigured PC. If you're not the tech type and cannot build it yourself, you might want to get in touch with people building computers specifically for your purpose. These machines usually costs a bit more than generic PCs. In the end however, it's a bit like going the very long way around to get the same type of hassle free machine you'd get buying a Mac. You're not buying just any PC. That OSX needs a complete rewrite... Possible. That's still tech talk and to be honest, OSX doesn't interfere w/ my musical activities. That is exactly the type of thing I'm so glad not to have to worry about anymore. My computer does what I expect it to do, reliably. That it cannot run more than 4 HDD - honestly, considering how big HDD are these days, I don't see why I'd need more. At this point it's like arguing for arguing, like telling someone - sure your BMW is nice, but it won't go a thousand miles per hour like this machine I can build for you. Unless you are recording the Vienna Symphonic Orchestra playing all 9 Beethoven symphonies in 32 bit 192 khz and mic'ing each instrument individually. Samples can live on an external drive. Back ups should. Seriously, no more than 4 HDD hardly seems like a show stopper for most realistic scenarios. If you can put more than 4 HDD and run a 3 UAD 2 cards in your system... Bah, I guess if you are into that sort of monster workstation, it's likely that you have the money to buy a PCI expansion. Unless you really like to worry and to look for possible issues and find a fix before knowing if it even applies... To me it's like trying to make sure your car can do anything including flying you to the moon should you ever need it. And that is, once again, putting the focus on tech talk rather than on the music.
post edited by Rain - 2011/09/06 11:54:56
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Rain
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 11:52:19
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jcschild
still not understanding what the heck you are talking about..
your comments do not make any sense
are you saying how the OS talks to the computer hardware? or audio hardware
again seems windows does a better job for that see #3 and #7
magma chassis LOL great more money down the tubes you didnt need to spend.. as if Apple was not enough $ already.
ahh you still use windows/sonar ok..
Scott - I respect your knowledge, but you do build and sell PCs right? This doesn't make you totally unbiased on this. ADK's machines are probably better than Macs - I assume since it's their mandate to build dedicated machines. But I don't see that much difference - ADK or Apple, either way, you're not buying just any PC. In one sense it's like telling people, you're free to decide for yourself - just as long as you have the expertise, otherwise, freedom might not work. Apple makes money. But 4 years from now, I can resell my MAC for and the upgrade will end up not costing me that much. They retain monetary value. My PCs usually end up in the junkyard. And honestly, if buy UADs by half-dozens, I don't see why you'd be suddenly so concerned with buying an expansion chassis. It's a non-compromise pay any price attitude on one side and on the other, worrying about having to invest into something...
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jcschild
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 12:12:49
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actually i sell, service,support both.. and benchmark both
but apple is going bye bye shortly no longer a fan. since Nehalem processors (last 2 yrs) Apple has had issues with multithread both audio and even more so video.
i have not been able to be comfortable selling Apple since.
what i dont get is why anyone would recommend apple if not using logic/FC
1) more money than even a custom daw
2) less performance
3) less expansion
4) no real support for audio
5) very duifficult to upgrade
so where is the sense in the recommendation?
it just works? not always
and so does a custom daw..
so again?
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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Rain
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 12:44:01
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1) Resale value make that somewhat irrelevant. 2) Still enough performance for the majority of the audio industry. Maybe not the fastest machine one can build, but then, the PC I'm buying today will be inferior in performance to the one I'll buy 4 months from now - does this mean I can't make music? Do I need the guarantee that my machine is the absolute fastest on the planet before I buy it? Anyway, it's probably outdated the minute it leaves the store. If having the latest machine is mandatory, that's further more reasons to buy Macs - at least you can absorb the fees by reselling them. Ok so a mac cannot run 47 instances of EZ Drummer and a custom PC can... But, I'm writing and mixing here, not benchmarking. As long as it works, I don't care. And so far, I don't have to care because I don't need 47 instances of EZ Drummer at once. I appreciate that some people do have specific needs - and if such is the case, they should get a custom built machine. 3) Chassis. 4) ? I am not sure what you mean. Considering that Apple have their own plug-in standard, their own audio application. Do you mean that unlike, say ADK, they won't help you w/ audio issues afterwards? I doubt many manufacturers will. ADK probably does - building computers for music is what they do. 5) That's wanting to always have the latest most cutting edge machine. I can resell the machine I bought 6 months ago for a very decent amount of money and buy the latest one. And repeat when another new machine comes out. But - unless your machine isn't doing what you need it to do right from the day you buy it, this almost seems like an obsessive must have the latest-hotest gear pattern. It's more a tech/gear addict approach. It just works - that's what people say about Windows 7. I believe it's relatively right, as it is for Mac. To me, a majority of your point are rooted into the idea that your needs will radically change some months from now and that you should plan ahead. But the truth is, your machine will perform just as well or as bad 6 months from now. If you know what you need from the start, it's not like Apple is lying to you, pretending that there are more PCI slots than there really are and you have the bad surprise when you arrive home with your new machine. I'm not recommending Mac over PC. Use whatever works.
post edited by Rain - 2011/09/06 12:51:49
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Rain
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 13:20:22
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Rain
I'm not recommending Mac over PC. Use whatever works.
I was thinking... There's sort of a paradox. I could potentially recommend a Mac, because there are standards. I couldn't do the same thing for PC's - there's so many variables that, unless you are a tech head, the best I could do would be to suggest that the person asking consults a specialist who will build their PC for them. And if you're a tech head, you don't need my suggestions. But in the end, whether you can do it yourself or have it done by an expert, we're back to square one - you need some level of technical expertise at some point. I guess that's what the "Mac just works" thing is all about for me. Unless you're a tech head, you'll have to buy from someone, whether it's Dell, Apple, StudioCat, ADK or any other... The only alternative is to become the expert yourself. You decide how you want to spend your time.
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Starise
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 14:00:07
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OMG ASG did you know what can of worms you've opened here? :)
I can be stubborn and thats a fact. I can also be convinced through logic( Not the software) if one thing is better than another. I also tend to follow the path of least resistance and I am money minded, meaning I try to save it whenever I can. Buying anything is a balancing act between value/price/performance.
Being stubborn, the more I feel someone pushing something...anything, the more resistant I can be to it. If it is presented as a cheaper easier way to do something then I'm listening. I don't buy into something because someone else thinks its better. My track record with the PC has been almost flawless and being a bargain hunter I have been able to build most of my PCs for a great price although I do stick to intel components whenever possible. I don't mind spending an hour tweaking my OS for DAW work and spending a little extra time to select good MOBOs is no hassle for me. My reasons for staying in the PC camp are:
1. Less expensive overall compared to apple.
2. I started out on PC. I know the way they work basically so familiarity with my tools is a plus.
3. Accessibility to more choice which can be good or bad depending on the user, but its good for me.
So If I can accomplish my goals with more choice,flexibility and at less expense I have no reason to even be interested in Apple.
I'm sure if someone would have turned me on to Apple first I would likely be just as sold into that camp, but only if it were equally as cost effective.
I have had a few Apple computers that were not DAWs and I have had friends that were almost religious in their excitement of Apple. One friend in particular is Apple /starbucks all the way....think yuppieville. But I have the same approach to to Starbucks.Why would I buy a $3 cup of coffee when I can go down the road and get good columbian roast for half that somewhere else. I don't care whats on the cup........I finally decided on the keurig though:0)
Not knockin you Apple folk just trying to show my perspective on this.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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Rain
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 15:25:56
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The $ argument is a hard myth to debunk. To use the same analogy - say you go to Starbucks and buy a coffee for $3. However, once you're done w/ your coffee, you don't throw away the the cup - you sell it for, I don't know, $1,75. That makes your next coffee $1,25. And on and on. It's an initial investment. Or you can go down to that shop down the road which offers coffee at half the price and prepare it yourself, admitting that you know how to. Once you're done, you pretty much just throw the cup away, as it most likely doesn't retain much value. Maybe you can try re-using it once, but that's what you'll get - an old cup. But you'll pay the pretty much the same $1.50 every time. 3rd option, you go to another specialized coffee shop. Their prices usually range from a bit more than the do it yourself to almost as expensive as Starbucks. I can't speak of the value for resale, but, being so specialized, I doubt that they benefit of the brand name value. Some people like to brew their own brand. There's no argument against that. I've spent 10 years learning all sorts of things, how to tweak and fix pc's, how they're built. I had a love/hate relation with that. That being said, I still have a PC at home, and I'll probably always have one. In regard to the Apple cult, I agree some people are pushing it. OTOH, Mac users are often made out as somewhat dumb people w/ a ridiculous attachment to their machines. I admit that I like my Mac, a lot. It makes my life easier. I am not constantly trying to fix things or improve it's performance or swearing at it like I sometimes do w/ my pc. And at the end of the day, if I'm going to use a machine for hours everyday, it somewhat make sense, imho, to spend that time in front of something that I actually enjoy rather than a piece of equipment I struggle with or, in the best of cases, am indifferent to.
post edited by Rain - 2011/09/06 15:59:31
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leapinlizard
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 15:34:48
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Yep, big can of worms ... I use PCs and always have, mainly because in the early days of the Mac vs. PC showdown a lot of 3rd party software was available for the PC, but not much was available for the Mac. Nowadays, however, I stick with the PC because: (1) I like to build my own, (2) it's what I'm used to, (3) every place I have ever worked uses them, and (4) they are cheaper. Is one better than the other? Probably not. If you can get what you need to get done on a Mac, then use one. I get everything I need to get done on a PC, so it's what I use. As Gallagher once said "it's all a matter of style!"
"Surf music will never die." -- LeapinLizard, 1963 "We may never hear surf music again." -- Jimi Hendrix, 1967.
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IK Obi
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 16:07:46
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I prefer PC's because it is what I started with as a kid. I know the system well and stick with what I know. I've tried Macs but the cost for performance compared to a PC has kept me on the PC side.
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timidi
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 16:27:56
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I love my Mac. I hate my PCs. I use PCs for audio.
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jackn2mpu
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 17:33:02
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jcschild
actually i sell, service,support both.. and benchmark both
but apple is going bye bye shortly no longer a fan. since Nehalem processors (last 2 yrs) Apple has had issues with multithread both audio and even more so video.
i have not been able to be comfortable selling Apple since.
what i dont get is why anyone would recommend apple if not using logic/FC
1) more money than even a custom daw
2) less performance
3) less expansion
4) no real support for audio
5) very duifficult to upgrade
so where is the sense in the recommendation?
it just works? not always
and so does a custom daw..
so again?
More money than even a custom daw? Not really. I priced comparable machines from your site versus Apple's and guess what? They're almost the same price. Less performance? Maybe if you're talking about Macs not having the latest firebreathing hyperspeed processors. Less expansion? Depends on how much you need. Like I said, you can always use an expansion chassis. No real support for audio? Come on - what the hell are you talking about? Macs have as much or better support for audio than pcs. Very difficult to upgrade? Upgrade what exactly? Processors? really - when you come down to it how many people really do a cpu upgrade? Or a motherboard swap? Memory is super easy - 64 gig possible in the dual cpu machines. Hard drives? Again super easy and you don't need tools to put drives in or even open up the case. Oh yeah if you want more than just the 4 possible hard drives inside the MacPro case? Pop out the optical drive, put an hd in there and also put in another hd in the second optical drive space. Really when you come down to it you don't have the configuration issues that you have with a pc. Believe me when I say I can do the tech stuff to get a pc working from a mashup of parts and probably do it as well as anybody on the planet. It's just that at my stage in life I choose to not go down that road.
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jackn2mpu
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 17:40:52
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Rain
The $ argument is a hard myth to debunk.
To use the same analogy - say you go to Starbucks and buy a coffee for $3. However, once you're done w/ your coffee, you don't throw away the the cup - you sell it for, I don't know, $1,75. That makes your next coffee $1,25. And on and on. It's an initial investment.
Or you can go down to that shop down the road which offers coffee at half the price and prepare it yourself, admitting that you know how to. Once you're done, you pretty much just throw the cup away, as it most likely doesn't retain much value. Maybe you can try re-using it once, but that's what you'll get - an old cup. But you'll pay the pretty much the same $1.50 every time.
3rd option, you go to another specialized coffee shop. Their prices usually range from a bit more than the do it yourself to almost as expensive as Starbucks. I can't speak of the value for resale, but, being so specialized, I doubt that they benefit of the brand name value.
Some people like to brew their own brand. There's no argument against that.
I've spent 10 years learning all sorts of things, how to tweak and fix pc's, how they're built. I had a love/hate relation with that. That being said, I still have a PC at home, and I'll probably always have one.
In regard to the Apple cult, I agree some people are pushing it.
OTOH, Mac users are often made out as somewhat dumb people w/ a ridiculous attachment to their machines. I admit that I like my Mac, a lot. It makes my life easier. I am not constantly trying to fix things or improve it's performance or swearing at it like I sometimes do w/ my pc.
And at the end of the day, if I'm going to use a machine for hours everyday, it somewhat make sense, imho, to spend that time in front of something that I actually enjoy rather than a piece of equipment I struggle with or, in the best of cases, am indifferent to.
Amen on everything you said here. And the cost comparison really is a myth. What most people don't factor in is the cost in time it takes to research, purchase and integrate what's purchase in individual parts. Then there's the thing of trying to make it all work, have the proper drivers, dicking around with the BIOS, etc. That all adds up. And if you price similar spec'ed machines from a custom builder and from Apple they come out damn near the same. Just don't buy your ram from Apple as it's way too expensive. 64 gig of ram for a MacPro desktop from OWC ( a well respected online retailer) goes for $1100. Same amount of ram from Apple is $3550.
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jcschild
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 17:46:28
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""And if you price similar spec'ed machines from a custom builder and from Apple they come out damn near the same."""
really?
i'll take that challenge anyday...
Rain maybe..
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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Starise
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/06 21:42:04
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Rain
The $ argument is a hard myth to debunk.
To use the same analogy - say you go to Starbucks and buy a coffee for $3. However, once you're done w/ your coffee, you don't throw away the the cup - you sell it for, I don't know, $1,75. That makes your next coffee $1,25. And on and on. It's an initial investment.
Or you can go down to that shop down the road which offers coffee at half the price and prepare it yourself, admitting that you know how to. Once you're done, you pretty much just throw the cup away, as it most likely doesn't retain much value. Maybe you can try re-using it once, but that's what you'll get - an old cup. But you'll pay the pretty much the same $1.50 every time.
3rd option, you go to another specialized coffee shop. Their prices usually range from a bit more than the do it yourself to almost as expensive as Starbucks. I can't speak of the value for resale, but, being so specialized, I doubt that they benefit of the brand name value.
Some people like to brew their own brand. There's no argument against that.
I've spent 10 years learning all sorts of things, how to tweak and fix pc's, how they're built. I had a love/hate relation with that. That being said, I still have a PC at home, and I'll probably always have one.
In regard to the Apple cult, I agree some people are pushing it.
OTOH, Mac users are often made out as somewhat dumb people w/ a ridiculous attachment to their machines. I admit that I like my Mac, a lot. It makes my life easier. I am not constantly trying to fix things or improve it's performance or swearing at it like I sometimes do w/ my pc.
And at the end of the day, if I'm going to use a machine for hours everyday, it somewhat make sense, imho, to spend that time in front of something that I actually enjoy rather than a piece of equipment I struggle with or, in the best of cases, am indifferent to.
Good analogy Rain. I am the guy who uses his gear until its not worth re-selling, so trade in or re-sell is a moot point to me. If I had a Mac I couldn't use Sonar and I'm not paying the price they want for Logic. I'm glad the Mac makes your life easier. I can honestly say I enjoy my PC too and it hasn't complicated my life one bit either...lets call a truce. I don't think your a dumb Mac user, I think you have found a machine that helps your workflow and you want to point that out, no harm there.Most Mac lovers say the same thing. Is funny to me that some Mac users consider themselves to be anti-establishement,going against the grain by using Mac stuff. I see Mac more as a corporate dictatorship and PC more as a democracy. Apple have walled themselves in and made their stuff over priced IMO. They have recently opened up some of their code. I think they see that their current trajectory might work against them.Word has it they might even stop computer sales and concentrate more on portable devices.Most of their money is now made on the iphone( I have one) and the ipad.With Jobs retirement who knows what the future holds. On the other hand The PC market is total freedom. You can buy inexpensive or top notch hardware that will run Windows. You can overclock your CPU and add any hardware arrangement you can imagine from any manufacturer.I like freedom, the trade offs are well worth the benefits IMHO.To my knowledge, no audio software engineering team works closer with Windows software developement engineers than Cakewalk. They are one step ahead of the others in just about every area. If something works for you its a hard sell to talk that person out of it and both PC and Mac are respectible solutions. I'll admit bias because I like Win7 64 bit and Sonar X-1 and they work for me.Theres not enough time in the day for me to learn another system when what I have already works well.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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IK Obi
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/07 14:44:56
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I'm with JCS child on this one. I doubt it will come out the same.
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ASG
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/08 03:53:52
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Lol great answers! totally glad i opened this can of worms, I honestly just enjoy the input, even if you guys let your hatred for one brand or the other get in the way unbiased conversation ha. Like i said im 19 and mostly interract with people my age, who refer to DAWs as "music factories", a sampler is a "beat maker", and-get this- midi as "fl studio" ... so its good to have stimulating conversation.. OK so correct me if im wrong (lovin the coffee anology) but it seems like with mac you pay them extra money to take the technical responsibilities off your hands, where as with a pc its more like heres the gear now learn to use it yourself? So as a result with pc's the power is in your hands, as opposed to Mac owners being at the mercy of Jobszilla? I think the hassles with a pc are kinda good, computer owners should be involved in understanding at least the basics. To me apple seems like when parents buy their kids brand new expensive cars, so that they can be lazy and not know or practice basic maintenance But hey thats my opinion on my fellow young people.. by the way apple owners how does logic compare to sonar? thats probably the only thing about apple that really makes my mouth water.
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jackn2mpu
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/08 07:59:21
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ASG
Lol great answers! totally glad i opened this can of worms, I honestly just enjoy the input, even if you guys let your hatred for one brand or the other get in the way unbiased conversation ha. Like i said im 19 and mostly interract with people my age, who refer to DAWs as "music factories", a sampler is a "beat maker", and-get this- midi as "fl studio" ... so its good to have stimulating conversation.. OK so correct me if im wrong (lovin the coffee anology) but it seems like with mac you pay them extra money to take the technical responsibilities off your hands, where as with a pc its more like heres the gear now learn to use it yourself? So as a result with pc's the power is in your hands, as opposed to Mac owners being at the mercy of Jobszilla? I think the hassles with a pc are kinda good, computer owners should be involved in understanding at least the basics. To me apple seems like when parents buy their kids brand new expensive cars, so that they can be lazy and not know or practice basic maintenance But hey thats my opinion on my fellow young people.. by the way apple owners how does logic compare to sonar? thats probably the only thing about apple that really makes my mouth water.
If that's the way the people you hang around with that are your age refer to DAWS then that's no wonder why we have some of the crappy music we have nowadays. There's some good stuff but it's hardly from the younger generation. Why oh why do people when they think about DAW software that runs on a Mac think the only one is Logic? There's way more than that out there (and it's not the only Mac-only platform as there's also Digital Performer) which is an excellent and stable piece of software). But back to your question how does Logic and Sonar compare? Let's assume Sonar X1 here: Both 64 bit (Sonar is also 32 bit) Both have steep learning curves Both have useability and performance issues
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Rain
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/08 11:10:26
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ASG
I think the hassles with a pc are kinda good, computer owners should be involved in understanding at least the basics. To me apple seems like when parents buy their kids brand new expensive cars, so that they can be lazy and not know or practice basic maintenance But hey thats my opinion on my fellow young people.. by the way apple owners how does logic compare to sonar? thats probably the only thing about apple that really makes my mouth water.
Then you will prefer PC. BUT, the "let us take care of that for you" philosophy that has always been one of the selling point of Apple is apparently appealing and successful enough for Microsoft to implement similar ideas into Windows. And don't get the wrong idea - many Mac owners do understand their machine and how they work, just like many people operating PCs are clueless. You do have to do basic maintenance on a Mac - it's a computer, there's no magic! But the system in itself is/was more "coherent" than older versions of Windows were. Think of it this way - a PC will let you do anything, configure to your heart's desires, even if it results in something that totally doesn't work. If you know what you are doing, all the better. Heck, you could even build a PC and configure it so that it'll be able to run Mac OS. In other words, the PC can be made of anything you want to throw in and Windows is the glue that ties it all up together. So, of course, sometimes, things go wrong. A Mac usually limits those options to effective and working solutions. They sell the package, machine and OS. That is of course, in very broad terms. As for comparing Logic to Sonar... I use/used both. There really isn't a point in comparing. It's like buying a Les Paul and sitting there and "comparing" to a Stratocaster instead of playing. Both are different but both work in competent hands. Pick one you like, and play music.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/08 11:15:41
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Both have useability and performance issues
Apple has complete control over the hardware, OS, and application... yet Logic suffers from the same type of issues reported here.  For me, a custom built PC offers complete control. I can choose each component. When it comes to building a DAW, I trust my judment/experience more than the BOD at Apple (or any other company). OS and Aesthetic choice aside, it's possible to build a better machine than what Apple/HP/etc delivers. Component for component, if you know which parts to choose, you can build a superior machine. iTunes is a good example of what I don't like about Apple. I absolutely despise having to use iTunes with my iPhone/iPOD. On my old Blackberry, if I wanted to add tunes, I just connected to the computer... and dragged the MP3 files over. Done. No other application necessary... or dictating the way I can add tunes... or making it a PITA to delete playlists/etc. iTunes gives Apple complete control over the way I use my iPhone/iPOD. Great for them... PITA for me. Regarding upgrades/expansion, I believe what Scott was refering to is that (when it's time to upgrade)... you have to buy a complete new Mac. You can't pop in the lastest Motherboard/CPU/RAM and essentially have a new machine. Other than adding RAM/Cards... there's really no upgrading a Mac. If you want faster, you buy the latest Mac Pro. (Which often lags behind hardware development) Apple takes control out of my hands... Thus, it's not a good option for me.
post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2011/09/08 11:17:48
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Rain
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Re:Do you prefer macs or PC's?
2011/09/08 12:07:01
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With all due respect Jim, and I do have a tremendous respect for your input, I work w/ Logic all day long at least 5 days a week and I have yet to deal with any issue. I work with both MIDI and audio. Can't say for video. No crash, no glitch, no nothing. Oh yeah, there was an issue with the oscillators going out of sync in ES2 when Apple updated OSX a while ago. They came up w/ a fix shortly after. Anyway, worst case, you can always keep a previous revision installed if things get yucky - by default, 9.0.0 remained installed on my machine, and I have the current up to date version running besides it. The only thing that occasioned problems in Logic was Line 6 Pod Farm - but it's a very very problematic piece of software, judging from the Line 6 board. It also crashed in standalone, anyway. It may very be related to my workflow and what I do - but then again, it hasn't changed all that much from what I used to do in Sonar. My needs are basically the same. Sonar worked, really didn't crash often, and most of the time it had to do w/ 3rd party plug-ns. But glitches, hiccups, screen turning all white, not so gapless audio engine, playback stopping were expected and part of the workflow. My PC was tweaked and optimized. Sonar basically had the machine to itself, as much of it as possible. My Mac works out of the box - no tweak - worst, during breaks, I often have Logic playing back my mixes in loop while surfing on the internet, taking mails and w/ iTunes ready to pop into action in the background. If at some point I launch a video on YouTube, well, it'll just route itself to the computer speaker, it won't mess with the assigned outputs in Logic or require me to reselect here or there. When I quit Logic, it goes back to my main outs. I didn't have to configure this. It does it by default. If I decide to plug my MIDI keyboard in the middle of the session, it just shows up - no need to quit and restart. It lets me optimize my session, re-arrange memory for a project (never needed to), it tells me when I'm pushing the limits that I may want to disable a few lug-ins. I don't know what issues. Of course there's bound to be - I'm not using every little function and nothing is perfect. But overall, it's impressively consistent and working very very well.
post edited by Rain - 2011/09/08 12:08:20
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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