Helpful ReplyDo you still enjoy the music without analyzing?

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ØSkald
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2018/11/17 16:52:05 (permalink)

Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing?

I bet many of us cant listen to a song without thinking of "how did they do that"...
How so you cope with it?
Can you enjoy music without analyzing?
 
For me I try to... 
But always end up analyzing.
If its melody, chords, effect.
Those "i cant figure out what's happening" songs always stands out as a, "i need to find out" songs.
 
Like the Devin Townsend song Kingdom.
I have seen some videos of Devin later on where he explain how he uses delay instead of reverb on vocals.
And how that killed it...
 
Its hard to just enjoy music

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#1
jamesg1213
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/17 17:39:01 (permalink)
Yes.

 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/17 17:52:49 (permalink)
You're absolutely right. Sometimes it's refreshing to just listen to some old Benny Goodman or Jimmy Dorsey that was recorded in mono as a live take, and just appreciate the beautiful simplicity of the recording, and the wonderful musicianship.
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/17 18:33:21 (permalink)
I haven't listened to music without some level of analysis for most of my life.  Before I started teaching myself piano at age 9, I would hear music and simply enjoy what I heard.  But after learning to play an instrument, I began listening to how music is put together.  Started playing guitar at age 13, and it just got worse.  When I ventured into recording a few years later, that was it. Never could listen to music the same again.
 
I still enjoy it, of course, but there's always that part of my brain that picks it apart.  Not in a bad way, though.  It's just how it is.

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JohnKenn
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/17 18:39:52 (permalink)
Really good thread
 
I found myself getting into this pit progressively worse over time. Music had become too analytic with the joy receding at the same rate I was dissecting everything apart into waveforms and techniques.
 
Went to an outdoor country music thing with two friends. One was a music major working on some critique degree and the other was a construction worker. Some of the local bands were..uh..less than stellar, but the energy was good and fun.
 
The construction guy was really into the sound and festivities, laughing, singing. The music major's face was wrinkled in pain for about the whole day buried in the analytics and any flaws coming from the stage. This was a heaven versus hell presentation and I was somewhere in the middle. Since then have tried to just enjoy the music more and be less analytical. Less critical of others, and as a perk, realized I was becoming less critical of myself.
 
John
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ØSkald
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/17 20:59:11 (permalink)
I have another analogy of this.
 
I did go to a instrument making school many years ago.
It was ok.
But the teacher in drawing and the workshop had 3 fewer finger on his left hand.
He lost them in a workshop years prior.
No need to explain more in detail about that.
 
 
So he told us we had to choose between being instrument makers or instrument players.
You cannot do both 100%. (or 50/50)
 
Being a maker, hinders you from playing, and can in fact destroy it.
You can loose fingers, and get cuts, hands gets numb after hours of hard work.
 
Being a player, hinders you from working fast enough in the workshop.
You will be too scared of your fingers all the time, to be productive.
 
So is it this way as a musician, composer, recorder, producer too?
That you can't be both a music fan and a music maker?

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#6
Wayfarer
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/17 22:20:42 (permalink)
I was a meat cutter at Kroger for 15 years while being a musician, and I think every other meat cutter who knew me would testify that I could absolutely fly on a table saw. I also owned a window cleaning company for 25 years. Before that I was in the Army. I've always worked dangerous jobs. If I get hurt, I get hurt. The world can get along without my music or anyone else's. There's plenty of music in nature. I would miss playing guitar, but there are other things I could do.
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/17 22:45:09 (permalink)
 
 
Some thoughts ,
What some people call listening is total BS ...
Listening is a very active activity where the listener participates in real time as the music plays . Not the passive outer shell of the thing that people try to pass off as listening ..
Example , Dudes woman is pissed off and wont shut up ...if said dude wants to keep her and have peace in his life again he has to pretend he is listening ...
 
That is how many people listen to music
 
Listening to music is a choice . Think about it for a moment . It can be no other way
 
In any given moment the amount of sounds our brains and ears have to process are staggering ...
 
Example , As i type my post I have the sounds of my apt going on ..a fan above my kitchen stove and Duke pacing around wanting to go out . All Left ear BTW...my right ear is hearing the sounds of the highway a few hundred yards away combined with the sounds of planes coming and going to and from an airport that is 20 miles away ...
 
Now what's my point ?
 
it is simple and complex all at the very same time
 
On this forum we have people that have trained their ears in many different ways ...
A guy like Bit can hear a tune and know instantly what rouge frequency's are jumping out of line and ruining the mix.
Over the decades he has put in the time and trained his ears to be able to do so at will  ...
I can not for the life of me picture him out with a few friends having a picnic in the woods and saying to his friends You hear that waterfall ? it sounds all wrong , there is way too much 4 K in the sound . The Waterfalls  over hyped 4 K is conflicting with the upper mid's of the tree tops frequencies ...
The Fletcher Munson  curve is not helping this either ...the sound of the waterfall is all wrong
As we all know Bit would never say that so it must have been Mini Bit a new apprentice from the forum saying it ....
 
In my above example 2 points have been addressed ..
 
1 , Out of all the sounds of the woods somewhere along the line a choice was made consciously or subconsciously to place the listening attention on the sound of the waterfall ....Focus ....
Not the sounds of the cows mooing in the field a mile down the road .
 
2 , When a sound comes into focus one can choose to be vulnerable and experience the sound in real time while their critical mind rides shot gun . Acceptance .
Or one could put their critical mind in the drivers seat  and fight the sound the whole time it is playing in real time ...The Desire not to relinquish control .
 
I have often made that mistake ...my brain will actually try to fill in the right frequency's .
This happens to be common when the listener is experiencing severe emotional distress to what they are hearing 
 
Then we have people that can hear all aspects musical of what they are hearing ...
By that I mean a musician that hears and can identify all the various elements within a musical performance ..
 
 
A, They can hear all elements of the melodic and harmonic structure .... B , they can hear all elements of the rhythmic structure ...
A ='s hearing and being able to identify an A minor when you hear one .
B ='s hearing and being able to jump in and ride the pulse of the tune with the full knowledge of what is taking place rhythmically  in real time .
 
That is the realm I live in ...I can hear most of the various ingredients of each of the performers playing and that is where I like to spend my time ...not so much on the technical production end of things ...
 
Anyway I'm gonna cut this short .
 
I enjoy listening to music so much I  have spent many "the whole night " listening to one song .
That happens a lot when I'm transcribing sections of music that I want to play on my guitar .
I'm actually grateful to be able to listen to music and have my analytical mind just come along for the ride ...
 
I am not impressed with the way the whole music bizznezz has turned out since the days of people sitting in the same room and playing the basic tracks to a song all together ,,,
 
that's my story and I'm sticking too it
 
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Wibbles
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/17 23:05:02 (permalink)
Was that a yes or a no then?

I'm off to see the Wibble, the wonderful Wibble of Wobble
 
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/17 23:19:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Wibbles 2018/11/18 08:02:50
As long as I have my freedom I don't have to live in the world of Yes or No .
 
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/17 23:50:04 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2018/11/21 03:10:49
I don't think I can give a definite yes or no answer. At any given moment I can drift back and forth between really enjoying without analyzing and nothing but analyzing. That can happen with a 3 minute ditty or a 20 minute EPIC masterpiece (of any genre).
 
Does that make me a bad person? 
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JohnKenn
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/18 00:35:42 (permalink)
No. It actually makes a lot of sense.
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/18 01:01:19 (permalink)
kennywtelejazz
...Then we have people that can hear all aspects musical of what they are hearing ...
By that I mean a musician that hears and can identify all the various elements within a musical performance ..
 
 
A, They can hear all elements of the melodic and harmonic structure .... B , they can hear all elements of the rhythmic structure ...
A ='s hearing and being able to identify an A minor when you hear one .
B ='s hearing and being able to jump in and ride the pulse of the tune with the full knowledge of what is taking place rhythmically  in real time .
 
That is the realm I live in ...I can hear most of the various ingredients of each of the performers playing and that is where I like to spend my time ...not so much on the technical production end of things ...



 
^^THIS!

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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/18 01:53:42 (permalink)
I find myself analyzing most music that I listen to, but there are some songs that are just beyond music.

At the risk of sounding unhinged there are some songs to me that are almost like a narcotic. I listen to it and I have this ecstatic moment which is really hard to explain. And it can be just a short refrain or some guitar accompaniment  and it just makes me feel really good.  And then I kick back and have a smoke. Kidding.
For example, the song Shenandoah gives me goose pimples. Major 7 chords make me happy.

It's not just me. There are a couple books around that talk about it, one of which is Music, The Brain, And Ecstasy by Oliver Sacks.






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JohnKenn
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/18 01:57:00 (permalink)
Minor versus major...
Not preaching to the choir here because maybe all of you know this way better than me. A neat thought about major and minor for those who haven't considered this, and my apologies for getting the thread off course... but since you done brought it up...
 
Most of us Yankees were imprinted since birth on the 12 tone scale. That's what is acceptable to our nervous system. Some other cultures are imprinted on a 24 tone scale between the octave and can hear or tolerate finer division of sounds that are sweet. Us westerners see them as out of tune noise.
Some other cultures imprinted on a 5 or 6 tone octave division in times more past. The adult would listen to a minor scale and ask what the hell you are doing. Can't even tune your instrument.
 
Musical perception of the scales seems to be a mix of our genetic capacity and what we were subjected to before we lost original fluidity. Carved in stone for the most part somewhere early in the life experience.
 
Beat frequency plays a big part in our genetic limitation. Means that if two or more notes are combined the interference creates a "beat frequency". Like a flanging notch or something like that.
If on an almost subliminal level, if we can detect the beat frequency interference, then the sound is more dark and atonal. Something not right. Brain is focusing on the fundamental notes but also registering the more buried beat frequency, telling us how comfortable we should be with the combination.
 
Play a fifth interval, a fourth interval and all is good. Get down to a minor third and thing start to send up flags. Closer the interval, slower the beat frequency and we get more guarded. Play a second or half tone together and it has crossed our genetic cultural limit to accept. We hear dissonance. Not because of the fundamentals, but the beat frequency.
 
Cool thing about this is that if you play a chord with 5th spacing, but don't include the third or minor third, the mind of the observer will fill in as per his/her state of mind. If happy and upbeat, the individual will by socialization add a major third to the tonic and hear happy sounds. Someone bummed out or in a bad mood may listen to the same 1-5 wav and mentally insert a minor third from the tonic and hear a sad minor. If you could put the brains of the happy and sad guy together, there would be ugly clash.
 
Used to rely on this with a guitar. Example an E chord without major or minor sex.
 
Low E open.
A string second fret
D string second fret
G string fourth fret
B and E open.
 
Pure androgeny open to the mind to interpret. Keyboard bangers can do chords with just firsts and fifths and get the same mirage.
 
Hey Skald, sorry to take this excellent topic off course.
 
John
 
 
 
 
 
 
#15
Wibbles
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/18 08:04:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2018/11/18 08:32:24
kennywtelejazz
As long as I have my freedom I don't have to live in the world of Yes or No .
 
Kenny



Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!

I'm off to see the Wibble, the wonderful Wibble of Wobble
 
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/18 08:32:19 (permalink)

 
Kenny

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
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#17
bitman
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/21 02:23:21 (permalink)
No.
#18
ØSkald
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/21 14:20:53 (permalink)
bitman
No.


Do you consider it a problem?
 
For me, i struggle listening to music that is not that good. Like a friend singing, and its not good. But i have to, because i am a friend. And should. My mother too. She dont sing good. But she loves to sing.
 
I find it harder and harder.

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michael diemer
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/22 17:42:52 (permalink)
I do both simultaneously. 

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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/22 20:18:19 (permalink)
Stuff on the radio I just listen to although sometimes the lyric will irritate me if it's stupid...... I'm looking at you now Mike Oldfield and Maggie Reilly. 
 
Stuff that I've chosen to play in the car or whatever I probably analyse a bit, but only in the sense of wondering how a particular sound/effect is done not in a critical sense.
 
My own tracks - always.
#21
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/22 21:00:03 (permalink)
Susan Rogers, who worked a lot with Prince as an engineer and is nowadays a psychologist who's done work on audio perception reckons musicians do hear music differently to non-musicians and focus on things non-musicians tend to miss. 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgBZHIUUn8Q

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jyoung60
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/22 22:02:24 (permalink)
tlw
Susan Rogers, who worked a lot with Prince as an engineer and is nowadays a psychologist who's done work on audio perception reckons musicians do hear music differently to non-musicians and focus on things non-musicians tend to miss. 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgBZHIUUn8Q




What an awesome video!  Will watch again, and probably again, taking notes.  Thanks for sharing that link.

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eph221
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/22 22:24:23 (permalink)
If it's a good song it will draw me in emotionally.  The analytical side sleeps.  BUT, if it's a sh***y song...out of boredom, sometimes I end up analyzing it.

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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/23 02:54:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2018/11/27 14:33:32
Mostly I just listen. I figure the music will percolate into my brain anyway. I think a lot of learning actually occurs when we're not thinking about it. If you have a musical brain, the analytical part is always active, even if you're not conscious of it at the time. So, you can enyoy it with the right hemisphere, and the left hemisphere will still do its thing anyway on it's own. I don't think you should be obsessive about analyzing, too much of that could ruin your ability to appreciate it.

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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/25 03:34:30 (permalink)
OK boys and girls .
Is music like           ? they say  there's no such thing as bad        you fill in the blank

 
Kenny
 
 
 

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=427899



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jyoung60
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/25 03:41:21 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby paulo 2018/11/25 11:39:21
kennywtelejazz
blah blah blah blah .
blah blah blah           ? blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah        blah blah blah blah blah

 
 
 
 




 
I'm sorry, were you saying something, Kenny?

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#27
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/25 04:13:09 (permalink)

 
Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2018/11/27 10:11:55

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=427899



#28
paulo
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/25 11:39:52 (permalink)
jyoung60
kennywtelejazz
blah blah blah blah .
blah blah blah           ? blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah        blah blah blah blah blah

 
 
 
 




 
I'm sorry, were you saying something, Kenny?





#29
bapu
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Re: Do you still enjoy the music without analyzing? 2018/11/25 18:08:59 (permalink)
kennywtelejazz
OK boys and girls .
Is music like           ? they say  there's no such thing as bad        you fill in the blank

 
Kenny
 
 
 


That is one life like blow up doll you have there Kenny.
#30
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