P-Theory
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Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
I had an acoustic guitar track in a song and saved where I was up to as a mix scene. Cloned the acoustic guitar track and moved the cloned tracks audio by 10 ms and panned the (now two) tracks hard left and right to try and give it some width and then saved it as a new mix scene. Flipping between the two mix scenes didn't seem to change anything.....did I do something wrong?
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Beepster
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 10:47:57
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I'd imagine it would save the pan. Not the clip edit. You'd have to do a "Save As" for editing changes. So even though Haas Effect stuff is a "mixing" technique it is still an editing task (aside from the panning step).
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 10:57:32
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I don't think its ever that simple to divorce editing from the mix process, for me anyway, the two things are completely interlinked. I, perhaps wrongly, assumed that the mix recall feature was more of a global snapshot tool which for me would have been much more useful. For example part of my "mix" process could well involve playing with vocal sync and rendering tracks but it sounds like that wouldn't be recalled either
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Beepster
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 10:57:39
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However I just thought of a possible workaround. IF MixRecall remembers Mute/Solo states of tracks and takes (I don't know if it does) you could copy the clips into new take lanes, create your Haas effect using the new Takes leaving the originals as is, then for one MixRecall snapshot have those lanes muted with the originals audible and then vice versa. That is of course if MixRecall saves Mute/Solo stakes of lanes/clips and I would be curious to hear if it did or not.
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Beepster
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 11:01:22
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2015/01/19 15:41:14
P-Theory I don't think its every that simple to divorce editing from the mix process, for me anyway, the two things are completely interlinked. I, perhaps wrongly, assumed that the mix recall feature was more of a global snapshot tool which for me would have been much more useful. For example part of my "mix" process could well involve playing with vocal sync and rendering tracks but it sounds like that wouldn't be recalled either
You are expecting too much from it and in fact that would be VERY undesirable for it's intended purpose which is simply to check mix levels. They could however add an extra option for MR to save edits but I for one would NOT want edits to be saved in my snapshot becauseif I changed an edit I'd want it to STAY changed. Thes types of features are for mixing and based on the assumption that the project is actually in the mixing stage. If you want to retain edits you could easily do what I said earlier and copied clips into new lanes and perform your edits on the new takes.
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mudgel
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 11:07:50
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If you have a look at the options dialog box it tells you what it saves.
If you want to save the track data, ie audio or midi then copy the clip, track, bus, project or whatever.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 11:16:40
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Mix recall does not include clip editing etc. Neither track or buss removal/addition. It recalls all the 'usual' mixing settings..... Volume, pan, FX, automation etc. etc. If you add or remove tracks and then recall a mix that didn't have those tracks/busses when saved any added tracks/busses are ignored. Much the same for deleted tracks, they are ignored. HTH
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 11:29:12
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Well each to his own, as I said, it sounds like I was expecting too much from it and was hoping for a global snapshot
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Beepster
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 11:36:13
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You could do essentially the same thing using Save As and File > Open. That was basically the old school way of comparing mixes. It would probably only take a couple seconds longer to load.
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 11:43:03
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Thanks I understand now but it does limit its usefulness for me as if it doesn't even track busses and associated rerouting etc then it is a very limited feature for me. I mean surely setting up things like parallel compression busses is part of a "normal" mixing process?
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 11:47:09
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Otherwise if it is just for trying different plugins etc then surely its easier to add say two different types of compressor on the master bus and then toggle between them by switching them off and on?
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Beepster
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 12:00:10
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No. It is for MUCH more than just trying different plugins. It allows you to compare various levels of everything in your project. Even if it did just swap out the plugs in your example you have brought it down to the simplest possibility of that scenario. If you have multiple effects across multiple tracks you could easily have dozens of plugins working on a very basic project. It is not so easy to switch between them all at once. As far as routing I think that would be a good option to have in MixRecall but maybe it IS an option. I don't own it so IDK. However you'd still have to have your busses set up before hand. Even still instead of having the routing change a workaround would be to use sends instead of changing where things are routed. Set up two sends on a track going to two busses. Turn one send all the way down and the other how you want it, take your snaphot, then turn that send down and set yoru second send to the second buss and take another snapshot. It would have the same effect as changing the routing.
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johnnyV
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 12:06:24
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Well it will be disappointing to me as well if it does not function like my Yamaha 01V works. Each saved mix can include every function minus the input gain level which is analog. New digital mixers now include that as well. So what you are all saying is if I have a finished song, I save it and I save as mix 1. then I delete Mix 1's effects, add different effects and save that as mix 2 that those changes do not stick unless I now use "save as" ? So what we have to do is include all the possible scenarios in the project first including adding all possible effects?
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Beepster
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 12:10:19
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johnnyV Well it will be disappointing to me as well if it does not function like my Yamaha 01V works. Each saved mix can include every function minus the input gain level which is analog. New digital mixers now include that as well. So what you are all saying is if I have a finished song, I save it and I save as mix 1. then I delete Mix 1's effects, add different effects and save that as mix 2 that those changes do not stick unless I now use "save as" ? So what we have to do is include all the possible scenarios in the project first including adding all possible effects?
Quoi? No you are talking about effects changes. P-Theory is talking about actual clip edits and track/bus routing. In your scenario (if I understand MixRecall properly) Mix 1 would retain all effects and their settings (if you made the snapshot before deleting all the effects) and Mix 2 would have all the new effects and settings.
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 12:16:13
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I can't imagine any scenario where my bus structure would be predetermined prior to mix stage. otherwise every project would end up sounding the same. Obviously there are the simple grouping type bus structures that are handled via my project templates but each mix bus structure is thankfully individual to each mix and built up dynamically during that mix process
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Beepster
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 12:25:36
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That's why once you are done editing you make a mix plan. Consider all the things you may or may not do and create enough busses to accomodate. If you don't use one no big deal. Also you are forgetting that even if you DO add a buss during the mixing phase you can take a snaphost of whatever you do and then if you revert to an older snapshot without the bus just mute the bus and change whatever routing you may have done (which could be avoided with the use of Sends instead of changing track output) and you should get the original mix. This is just an extra tool. It has a ton of options to customize what is retained in the snapshots to cover common mixing situations but it cannot make all your decisions and plans for you. Still I'm not even sure if there is an option to retain routing selections or not. It may actually be in there. You started this asking about editing and now you are slowly shifting to all this other stuff. Just look at it and play around with a bit. It may work just fine for many of the things you are talking about. If not I'm sure there are plenty of workarounds you could use like the Sends thing I was referring to.
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Beepster
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 12:30:04
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And BTW it almost sounds like what you want is a hyper advanced History/Undo/Redo scheme that allows you to pick and choose what to retain and recall easily and non-destructively. I would personally LOVE that option but that is a huge undertaking for the Baker's to code (I would imagine).
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 12:43:09
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Haven't had a play yet but from what I can see in the options it doesn't cover track / bus routing so doesn't give me what I was hoping for. I think everyone would LOVE that functionality which is what I thought had been announced when Noel described mix scenes in the same terms as track templates......gutted now :-( https://www.dropbox.com/s...19%2017.38.30.png?dl=0
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 12:45:06
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Or does it? Just having a break for a few hours but maybe if the highlighted bus controls feature handles the routing then the only thing that is missing for me is the addition of tracks and busses. In which case it is less of a problem as you could just set up loads of buses as you described and then route them accordingly
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Beepster
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 12:55:18
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P-Theory Or does it? Just having a break for a few hours but maybe if the highlighted bus controls feature handles the routing then the only thing that is missing for me is the addition of tracks and busses. In which case it is less of a problem as you could just set up loads of buses as you described and then route them accordingly
Yeah, I think this is one of those features that is going to be easy to use on a basic level (as in you have the project set up perfectly for mixing like a pro in a big studio would and just want to test out different level and effect changes) but will take some experimentation and foresight to do the more advanced stuff like are describing. So even without it in my hands I can think of ways to essentially do what you want but can't test it out. Also this is a brand spankin new feature and the Bakers have already said it is just the beginning for this section of the program. Supposedly it ties in with all sorts of other stuff and they plan to really expand it out from its current state. Give it a good thorough run through to see what it can and cannot do then post anything extra you think it could use in the Features sub forum. I personally am anxiously awaiting more reports on this feature because to me it is the one major improvement that makes me desperately want to own the program (but alas cannot afford it at the moment). Cheers.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 13:10:52
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This is exactly why I didn't see mix snapshots as very useful. But, true; it's another option and time will tell if I get some use out of it after all.
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bapu
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 13:15:38
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Since (at the mix stage) I do exactly what Beeps describes (levels, pan, FX changes) I expect Mix Recall to be used quite a bit, especially on collabs where we discuss changes quite a bit.
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Beepster
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 13:19:00
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And I know you already know this Baps but others may not... MixRecall allows you to export all your snapshots in one go. That way if you want to see how each mix will sound on other systems or send them off for other people to evaluate so they can choose the best it's a one shot deal. Pretty slick.
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 13:27:42
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OK tried it and it definitely doesn't handle the routing to and from buses which significantly lessens the impact of this functionality for me. The simple things it can handle such as automation etc I normally control via my ears and the mighty ctrl z or dropping in different plugins and toggling between them. It would be amazing if they could extend this functionality to incorporate the use of buses and dynamically building them up but I suspect that is a very long way off
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 13:31:09
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Don't forget there is also the "Save copy as" in the file menu for easy snapshotting of the whole project.
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bapu
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 13:34:09
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Beepster And I know you already know this Baps but others may not... MixRecall allows you to export all your snapshots in one go. That way if you want to see how each mix will sound on other systems or send them off for other people to evaluate so they can choose the best it's a one shot deal. Pretty slick.
Yeah, my second favorite feature of this feature. Uh oh bapu is in a loop.
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southpaw3473
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 13:34:22
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What I want to know is if this will allow me to recall "scenes" during playback. I could do this on an old Yamaha digital standalone recorder (AW4416) which had an O1V mixing board integrated. I loved the feature. For instance, at the chorus of a song I get all my basic settings and levels down for that part and create a scene which includes all its settings (automation, levels, pan, effects levels, etc). I save it as CHORUS. When the chorus comes up later in the song I use the scene recall and insert the CHORUS scene. All the chorus settings drop in at that point. It is wicked helpful with very complex mixes with lots of time changes and moving parts. That's the "scene" idea but I always found it extremely handy. It doesn't seem that the new Mix Recall does that.
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bapu
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 13:48:36
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southpaw3473 That's the "scene" idea but I always found it extremely handy. It doesn't seem that the new Mix Recall does that.
Seems like a great feature request for Mix Recall.
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Anderton
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 14:03:38
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southpaw3473 That's the "scene" idea but I always found it extremely handy. It doesn't seem that the new Mix Recall does that.
True - it's for saving mixes, not individual snapshots within mixes. However...I create my final mix by bouncing within SONAR rather than exporting or whatever. That way I can render different mixes and cut/paste the parts I want to change. In your examples, I'd render the chorus section and drop that into the final two-track. This may sound kludgy but it's surprisingly effective. There have been many times I've rendered a few different mixes and ended up taking parts from some of them to create the final mix. Used to do the same thing with splicing tape when the multitrack ended up going to the two-track
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P-Theory
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Re: Does Mix Recall not record changes to audio tracks and data?
2015/01/19 14:07:16
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FastBikerBoy Don't forget there is also the "Save copy as" in the file menu for easy snapshotting of the whole project.
Aware of that Karl but thats not really any different then doing a "save as" and renaming the mix, it still has to reload the project, skin (as in prochannel and buses etc) and the audio data from scratch. What I thought they had implemented was some sort of replication model where it tracked changes to the skin / interface and only loaded the bits that had changed with the audio data
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