MakeshiftMilitia
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Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
In any version of Sonar Xx I can remember, the draw tool doesn't snap correctly in a project from the point of the first tempo change until the end. I'm assuming the tool just continues to draw at the previous tempo. This is kind of a deal breaker for scoring work or any other complex music with tempo changes that relies on metric automation for effects/etc.
I reported it as a problem through Sonar's bug reporter but it apparently didn't make it into this new update so maybe if enough people can confirm it, we can get it fixed?
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Splat 
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2013/12/20 00:45:40
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Hello,,, Welcome to the forums Could you give us clear steps to reproduce as from creating a brand new project? Would you able to create a video as this sort of issue can be hard to get across? We have another different (but slightly similar issue) here you might be able to weigh in: http://forum.cakewalk.com/X3d-Audiosnap-wonkiness-m2952751.aspx Thankyou... P.S. What was the issue number and what is it's status? Thankyou.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2013/12/20 00:55:38
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MakeshiftMilitia
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2013/12/20 01:09:00
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Hey there Alex,
The other post you linked to is an unrelated issue/problem. I'm not going to do video recording just yet because it's so easy to reproduce:
1. New Project with one track
2. Insert a new tempo (let's just say 145) at bar 5
------- so far we have a project that is 120bpm through bar 5 where it then switches to 145bpm --------
3. Bring up automation for panning, volume or anything else
4. Set the draw tool to saw wave or anything else that snaps
5. Draw across the automation from bar 1 through bar 8 at 1/4 note snap (so through the tempo change)
6. Observe that at bar 4, the automation is perfectly snapped, at bar 5 and onward it has drifted off
You don't need to draw through tempo changes to make this happen either... start anywhere after bar 5 and the automation won't snap properly.
Let me know if any of that is unclear.
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MakeshiftMilitia
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2013/12/20 01:13:01
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CWBRN-19135"The status of your problem report has updated to "Submitted to Development" with the following notes:
This is confirmation that your report is officially on file with our development team. At this time we do not require any further information from you to research the nature of your report. Should we require further information we will contact you using the email address you have provided in your report."
I'm pretty sure I reported it months ago but I can't remember honestly.
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Splat
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2013/12/20 01:13:43
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OK thanks... haven't got time to repro as I gotta go, maybe another forum member can chirp in.
A screenshot or two might be good to demo what happens (if you want to create more impact with your post)....
Thanks...
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MakeshiftMilitia
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2013/12/20 13:33:35
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Anybody willing to test this out?
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Splat
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2013/12/20 13:42:44
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I tried this, I guess I'm still not getting it. I'm probably doing it wrong, your steps are pretty good but I suspect if I had a screenshot of (6) it might help me.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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MakeshiftMilitia
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2013/12/20 16:16:08
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In this screenshot I followed the steps I outlined above... tempo change at bar 5. You can see in bar 4 (in the green bounding box), before the tempo change there are 4 saw waves across 4 beats... perfectly synced. In bar 5 (the yellow bounding box), you can see there are 3 and 1/3rd saw waves across 4 beats... no longer synced. Why is this bug a problem? Let's say you were scoring Iron Man 4 and you had many tempo changes across a project to hit all of the action. You get to bar 67 and need to do some SWEET dynamic wobble bass (slightly sarcastic). You draw in your waveforms to modulate your cutoff and then you realize you are **** out of luck when it doesn't sync. Now you have to do a bunch of extra work to get around the bug (or change your creative vision), you miss your deadline and you get fired. That's why this needs to be fixed. 
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MakeshiftMilitia
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2013/12/22 15:30:56
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C'mon, someone on these forums has to write or record music with tempo changes and draw tempo-synced automation
post edited by MakeshiftMilitia - 2013/12/22 15:38:56
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Splat
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2013/12/22 17:47:36
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Well I'm fairly clueless to be honest but this is what I did, it's taken a while to work this out (really need to baby spoon me here): 1. New Project 2. Insert audio track 3. Arm and Record audio track (say 10 bars worth). 4. Insert a new tempo (let's just say 145) at bar 5 ------- so far we have a project that is 120bpm through bar 5 where it then switches to 145bpm -------- 5. Bring up automation for panning, volume or anything else 6. Set the draw tool to saw wave. 7) Set event draw duration to 1/4 8) Set snap to whole note. 9) Draw across the automation from bar 1 through bar 8 onwards.... I get the below image, note the leadup is a straight line, however I drew it from bar one and the line got created.... No idea.... Anyway here is the image, does this prove anything...?  What is missing from these steps otherwise? (this is reminding me of http://www.photoshoptroll.com/  , however it's real and I'm the stupid person )
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cliffr
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2013/12/23 01:40:00
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MakeshiftMilitia
In any version of Sonar Xx I can remember, the draw tool doesn't snap correctly in a project from the point of the first tempo change until the end. I'm assuming the tool just continues to draw at the previous tempo. This is kind of a deal breaker for scoring work or any other complex music with tempo changes that relies on metric automation for effects/etc.
I reported it as a problem through Sonar's bug reporter but it apparently didn't make it into this new update so maybe if enough people can confirm it, we can get it fixed?
Correct, this is how it behaves, not a very nice bug really. I'll go make a report too, things need to be reported to get attention !. CakeAlexS
Well I'm fairly clueless to be honest but this is what I did, it's taken a while to work this out (really need to baby spoon me here):
1. New Project
2. Insert audio track
3. Arm and Record audio track (say 10 bars worth).
4. Insert a new tempo (let's just say 145) at bar 5
------- so far we have a project that is 120bpm through bar 5 where it then switches to 145bpm --------
5. Bring up automation for panning, volume or anything else
6. Set the draw tool to saw wave.
7) Set event draw duration to 1/4
8) Set snap to whole note.
9) Draw across the automation from bar 1 through bar 8 onwards....
I get the below image, note the leadup is a straight line, however I drew it from bar one and the line got created.... No idea....
Anyway here is the image, does this prove anything...?
What is missing from these steps otherwise?
Hey Alex, if you record audio, yes it does ... from bar 5 it's way off the mark :-) Cheers - Cliff
i7-950 24 GB, GTX 580, W7/64 Ultimate, Sonar Platinum, Alesis MasterControl, KRK Rokit RP8g2s Some Real piano, basses, and guitars, Komplete 8Ultimate, Ibanez guitars, MusicLab RG/Strat/LPC, Trilian, Omnisphere, RMX, EWQL SO Platinum, Pianos, Choirs, VOP, Gypsy, Goliath, SD2, MOR, Ra, HS, HB, too many plugs, Midi controllers, and all kinds of weird gadgets My Soundclick Page
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Splat
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2013/12/23 01:50:34
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Ok could you post the issue number here please... Thanks..
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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MakeshiftMilitia
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2014/03/21 23:36:17
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Hey Alex,
The problem hasn't been resolved as of X3e. Here is the issue number: CWBRN-19135
Still works exactly the same way. If you go up to the image you posted when you replicated the issue, you can see how your saw wave snaps correctly (every whole note), and then once you move past the tempo change, the snap drifts to some random interval (or maybe continues at the whole note value of the previous tempo). If you tried the same steps again in X3e, you could replicate the same problem. I hope it's fixed in the next update!
Thanks for following up!
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swamptooth
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2014/03/22 01:38:26
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that's a peeve of mine as well... cubase handles it about the same as sonar. studio one and reason edit perfectly with tempo changes. i have noticed on occasion in studio one that drawing right to left from a faster tempo to a slower tempo can cause some anomalies. the other thing in sonar that catches me off guard sometimes is that if you choose square wave and draw automation from left to right or right to left, then reverse which way you're drawing it changes from square wave to triangle wave...
post edited by swamptooth - 2014/03/22 02:14:28
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Splat
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Re: Draw Tool Doesn't Snap Correctly in Projects With Tempo Changes
2014/03/22 07:19:55
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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