Helpful ReplyDuplicated Track does not have any audio in it?

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fireberd
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2017/10/06 12:26:25 (permalink)

Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it?

I upgraded to the latest 2017.09.  I tried the Duplicate Track on a vocal track and a guitar track but all I get is an empty track, no audio.  I'm using the default settings In the "Duplicate Track(s)" Panel that pops up.
What am I doing wrong?
 
Thanks/Jack

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#1
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 12:35:30 (permalink)
Nothing wrong, right click on the duplicate track button and tick off the option to Duplicate events.
By default it copies tracks as empty but you can change that.

Keith
#2
fireberd
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 12:54:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby backwoods 2017/10/06 21:05:32
Duplicate Events is not checked (the default).   If that needs checked it should be part of the default settings.
 

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#3
chuckebaby
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 13:17:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby joden 2017/10/06 14:51:48
Im actually a fan of this. Typically when I clone a track, its not for its data, its for its track settings.
IE= Almost like using a track template.
 
If you want the data (audio) = Right click and choose the properties to clone/duplicate the data.

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#4
Zargg
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 13:23:15 (permalink)
Hi.
I use this the same way as Chuck.
As mentioned, right click for extra options.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#5
bitflipper
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 13:40:52 (permalink)
As with the old Clone Track dialog and most other features (e.g. Insert Synth, Freeze), SONAR remembers the last options you used. So if you want "Events" to be checked by default, all you have to do is check it once and after that it will be your default.
 
Like Chuck, I'm more likely to duplicate a track's routing and effects without the data, so the default makes sense for me. But I completely agree with Fireberd: "duplicate" should mean "duplicate in full" by default.
 
Here's how I would handle it if I was part of CW's coder crew: add another option to the dialog: "always show options before duplicating tracks" and make that the default. That way, the first time you use the feature you'll be made aware that such options exist and what the defaults are, thus preventing confusion. I'd also add a "Duplicate" button to the dialog so that you can click through it and perform the operation from there (disabled if no tracks have been selected).
 
There's apparently also some confusion about track selection and focus, so I'd also add a label to the dialog showing how many tracks are about to be cloned. When they added that feature to the Delete dialog, it saved me from a few user errors.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#6
Anderton
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 13:45:45 (permalink)
Another option would be "read the eZine" 😀

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#7
bitflipper
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 13:51:35 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dcumpian 2017/10/06 14:00:58
That's funny, Craig.
 
Oh, you're serious.
 
I know this might shock you, being a writer, but many musicians aren't fond of reading instructions. Or much of anything else.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#8
mixmkr
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 14:30:49 (permalink)
Even sheet music too ;-)

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#9
Anderton
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 15:07:22 (permalink)
bitflipper
That's funny, Craig.
 
Oh, you're serious.
 
I know this might shock you, being a writer, but many musicians aren't fond of reading instructions. Or much of anything else.

 
Trust me, I'm rarely serious. That's why I put a smiley in there. Whenever anyone says to me at a seminar something like "I read your manual on Kontakt, great job" my response is always "So you're the one!!"
 
But to get serious for a second...I do put a lot of work into the eZine with the express intent of helping users get the most out of the program and recording in general. If you're correct that most people don't read it, then I should probably just let it fade into the sunset.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#10
rwheeler
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 15:21:14 (permalink)
Anderton
...But to get serious for a second...I do put a lot of work into the eZine with the express intent of helping users get the most out of the program and recording in general. If it's the case that most people don't read it, then I should probably just let it fade into the sunset.



Hey, people read the eZine and get a lot out of it. Then they have fewer problems with new features and show up less in the forums. It also serves as a repository of current information until the main product documentation eventually maybe gets updated. And it provides a marketing advantage over competitors that don't have such a valuable resource. (Or could if Cake marketers would see it that way). Letting the eZine go away would be serious error. Keep up the great work, which is very much appreciated. I'm voting "Nay" on fading away.

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chuckebaby
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 15:44:47 (permalink)
I don't want to go off topic here but another vote for Tech+Tips.
You can tell a lot of effort goes in to the T+T. There is a load of value to be found every month.
 
Like this good piece from Craig in this months T+T:
 
""The Duplicate Track function defaults to copying the track’s parameters and effects, but not events. Therefore, you can start recording immediately after duplicating and record-enabling the track. However, it’s possible to change the default behavior by right-clicking on the Duplicate Track button, and choosing what you want to duplicate from the Duplicate Track Settings dialog box."
 
I know its not easy reading 30 pages every month but if one was to at minimum look at the features in T+T that they are unsure of functionality, one would have a clear answer. (Hope I don't sound to snob saying it like that).
 
 

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#12
Cactus Music
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 15:50:30 (permalink)
What I like and consider user friendly software is when you use something for the first time a dialog box pops up asking for your preferences and then this- A check box that say's "don't show me this again"  There you go, set and forget. 
 
Sonar doesn't always remember your preferences, My bone of contention is new projects no matter what default to Comping. I always have to remember to change that to Overwrite. 
 
On the topic of reading, I myself have always been a "reader" of manuals. But it seems we have the new generation of Visual learners who I guess after being weined on Video games prefer the Video tutorials. I find the videos are too slow paced and so it takes longer to find that one "paragraph" I needed. 

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fireberd
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 20:27:27 (permalink)
I looked for a link, on the release announcement and didn't see a link to the Zine (or overlooked it) before posting.  I even did a Sonar Help search (on the Cakewalk site) but its not updated to include the Duplicate Track feature.
 
I'm a computer tech and managed a network help desk for 24 years.  I'm one of those that preach "RTFB", so I don't usually cry wolf before trying to find the instructions.
 
 

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jpetersen
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 20:36:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg 2017/10/06 21:22:21
We fought tooth and nail to bring back the ezine, and now nobody's reading it.
 
Great.
 
Just great.
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jpetersen
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 20:39:33 (permalink)
...by the way, I never did understand why "events" also means the audio itself.
For the longest time I thought it was a bug.
#16
bitflipper
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 21:04:12 (permalink)
There should be a link to the e-Zine in the forum header. I'm sure that would be easy to add under the "Cakewalk" dropdown menu. A sticky thread would be even easier, with links to each edition, but those stickies can get out of control over time so a permalink at top would be best, IMO.
 
"Event" means any piece of time-based data associated with the track, including audio samples, MIDI notes, and automation nodes. It's not a term a musician would use, more of a programmer's way of looking at it.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#17
chuckebaby
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 21:07:23 (permalink)
The link could not be easier to find.
It is listed in the Sticky at the top of the forum for the new release.
SONAR 2017.09 is Now Available!
https://issuu.com/cakewalkinc/docs/2017.09_tech_music

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arlen2133
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 21:43:55 (permalink)
Please don't take away the EZine!!!


Arlen
aka
Mr Grant
my music


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Sam4246
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/06 23:30:46 (permalink)
Cactus Music
I find the videos are too slow paced and so it takes longer to find that one "paragraph" I needed. 

I hate it when I watch an 11 minute video and then realize when it is over the information I was seeking was never even in the video.
Keep it up Craig! Your wealth of knowledge helps dummies like me tremendously.
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BRainbow
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/07 01:30:42 (permalink)
<<<I know this might shock you, being a writer, but many musicians aren't fond of reading instructions. Or much of anything else.>>>
 
Anderton's a writer?
 
(not)  I know he is and I really do read his great stuff.

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fireberd
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/07 12:18:25 (permalink)
I just went back and looked over the 2017.09 announcement.  There is nothing that I see in that thread about or a link to the e-zine. 
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com...vailable-m3665460.aspx

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Zargg
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/07 12:21:11 (permalink)
fireberd
I just went back and looked over the 2017.09 announcement.  There is nothing that I see in that thread about or a link to the e-zine. 
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com...vailable-m3665460.aspx


Under the 30th Anniversary Content, the link to the https://issuu.com/cakewalkinc/docs/2017.09_tech_music
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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fireberd
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/07 12:49:49 (permalink)
I see that now.  It didn't specifically say "e-zine" so that threw me off.  I saw the link for the "tech+music" but that did not ring any bell for me as being a document on the update features.  Thus I was in the dark.
 
 

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Zargg
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/07 13:01:18 (permalink)
They renamed it tech+music earlier this year, IIRC 

Ken Nilsen
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#25
VariousArtist
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Re: Duplicated Track does not have any audio in it? 2017/10/07 14:19:10 (permalink)
bitflipper
As with the old Clone Track dialog and most other features (e.g. Insert Synth, Freeze), SONAR remembers the last options you used. So if you want "Events" to be checked by default, all you have to do is check it once and after that it will be your default.
 
Like Chuck, I'm more likely to duplicate a track's routing and effects without the data, so the default makes sense for me. But I completely agree with Fireberd: "duplicate" should mean "duplicate in full" by default.
 
Here's how I would handle it if I was part of CW's coder crew: add another option to the dialog: "always show options before duplicating tracks" and make that the default. That way, the first time you use the feature you'll be made aware that such options exist and what the defaults are, thus preventing confusion. I'd also add a "Duplicate" button to the dialog so that you can click through it and perform the operation from there (disabled if no tracks have been selected).
 
There's apparently also some confusion about track selection and focus, so I'd also add a label to the dialog showing how many tracks are about to be cloned. When they added that feature to the Delete dialog, it saved me from a few user errors.


Spot on bitflipper.

As developers we can forever lament what the end user “should do”. Or recognize that, if the same issue, or question raised, is going to occur again and again, that maybe a different presentation is offered.

Often the change is subtle, but it can avoid a lot of headache and the tiresome RTFM comments. I do RTFM and highly recommend it, but a little adjustment in the screen flow can go a long way.

Same applies to the request for a Ripple Edit button for toggle and status.
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