VariousArtist
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Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
I have to think I'm missing something here, but...
I've tried changing the colors for the display of track backgrounds and fonts, but most of what I do seems to have no effect. If I select the predefined "Follow System Colors" then sometimes these work, but not if I try to change the colors under "Use Specific Color".
I had some pretty well-defined colors setup in 8.5 that I've just grown too used to, and I'd like to try and migrate these over. I've not had issues with this in the past, and I have to believe this is user-error, but I can't possibly see why it's not working for me. Note that a few things have worked, but, for example "Track View Audio Track Text Name/Background" is not one of them.
Anyone else have any luck with this?
Also, any way to change the font size? Most of my track/folder descriptions no longer fit well.
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 03:07:54
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Some of the colors are changeable and some are not. However, you do need to restart X1 in order for most of the changes to take effect. Overall, though, the experience with color schemes is going to be much a more uniform experience with X1 than it was with 8.5 and earlier. Some stuff you can change, like clip colors, Time Ruler background, Clips Pane Background, etc. And some stuff you can't change, like the color of the Control Bar or the Pro Channel's color. What we did was try to make X1 as easy to work with as possible so you can focus less on tweaking color schemes and more on making music.  I sincerely hope you like the changes, but of course, feedback is always welcome.
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ba_midi
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 03:36:16
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Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
Some of the colors are changeable and some are not. However, you do need to restart X1 in order for most of the changes to take effect.
Overall, though, the experience with color schemes is going to be much a more uniform experience with X1 than it was with 8.5 and earlier.
Some stuff you can change, like clip colors, Time Ruler background, Clips Pane Background, etc.
And some stuff you can't change, like the color of the Control Bar or the Pro Channel's color.
What we did was try to make X1 as easy to work with as possible so you can focus less on tweaking color schemes and more on making music.
I sincerely hope you like the changes, but of course, feedback is always welcome.
While I have said repeatedly to lower our expectations, I sure was hoping "frozen" tracks didn't have that "all the same color" as in previous versions. Sigh - no change there either I see :( This really should be addressed in the future.
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VariousArtist
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 03:38:00
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Hello Seth -- I appreciate your quick response, but having compared what I am describing in X1 to my experience with 8.5 I believe I have found a bug or a backward step.
Here's my step-by-step recipe that works in 8.5 but not in X1:
- select the menu option to change the screen colors
- select "Track View" under the Color Category
- select "Active Track" under Screen Element
- change the color under 'Use Specific Color'
In 8.5 any change I make is instantly visible and I don't need to exit out of the dialog box or even press the 'Apply' button. However, in X1 I see no change taking effect - not even if I hit Apply, save the preset, close X1, re-open X1.
I hate to find an issue so early, especially one that appears more on the aesthetics side of things, but I depend on colors as visual cues and with so much good work in the Skylight design paradigm I wouldn't have expected this issue.
I keep re-trying it in 8.5 and it works as expected. Maybe I need to re-boot or...?
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 03:38:38
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Not a bad suggestion (actually it's pretty good). Please submit a feature request if you haven't already.
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 03:46:32
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I believe Active Track is one of the components that is fixed in color. As I said before, much of X1's color scheme is baked and served as is. I realize this might be a tad disconcerting at first. Believe me, I was a big color scheme tinkerer for years (one of my colleagues can verify several insanely long, late night sessions of color scheme creation). However, with X1 I now feel like I don't have to tinker with the color scheme in order for the interface to look good. In fact, I don't really have much of a desire any more to tinker with it as I'd rather just make music. Those are my personal feelings on the subject, and if yours differ I truly respect that. What I would suggest is to check out the new music creation tools in X1 and get to making some music. Familiarize yourself with the new Tools, the Tool HUD, and the Control Bar (arrange, show, and hide the various modules to taste). Get to know Skylight by starting with the Normal template and create Screensets in it and then save it as a new template. Screensets are, after all, per project. And if all else fails, fire up an existing project and remix it with the ProChannel to get to know each of its modules.  I think once you get into all that and maybe even have a song going you might start to look at X1 and color schemes a little differently. If anything, give it a shot. 
post edited by Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk] - 2010/12/08 03:48:49
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ba_midi
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 04:02:24
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I believe Active Track is one of the components that is fixed in color. As I said before, much of X1's color scheme is baked and served as is. I have to admit that having some things "written in stone", so to speak, may not play out well in the long run. I think no having flexible colors in some areas, and the way we were able to customize Sonar so deeply in the past, may be a sore spot for many. Time will tell.
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 04:21:23
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Billy,
That's a valid point. However, I think there's big upside to having a consistent user experience. I get that it's fun to tinker and tweak with things like color schemes, but in the end I'd rather get down to making music. And I think X1, though it's interface may not be as tweakable as it was in the past, helps you do just that.
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VariousArtist
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 09:02:04
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Seth -- I see where you are coming from but I have to beg to disagree...
Why appear to offer the choice of changing colors to items like "Active Track" when it can't be done?
Why take away something that was offered before?
For some people (such as me), the contrast of colors is important because we don't pick up on the more subtle differences between, say, the color of an active track and a non-active track. I tend to make these things "blindingly" obvious by increasing the contrast/colors/etc.
Yes, ultimately it is all about making music and people who know me would hear me say that phrase a lot. But I'm not trying to make my screen "pretty" but rather make it more functional and obvious to me as to what is going on and I've found a color scheme that really worked for me in 8.5 is no longer possible in X1.
I guess in time I will get used to it, and you are correct that there is much else in X1 that has improved. But I have to say I'm surprised at the decision to "bake in" something that didn't seem to me to be a necessary path to take....
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mudgel
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 11:26:00
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I'll be intersted to know if buddy 110 will be able to change the fader knbs and meter colors as he has in the past. I absolutely hate the squared faders since seeing buddy's alternatives. N ow qith X1 its all abit too angular for me and I reckon the rounded faders would look really cool.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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VariousArtist
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 11:34:48
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buddy110 will become my buddy if he can enable color-overrides for me. I miss having different color backgrounds to distinguish tracks for audio, MIDI -- let alone folders and tracks.
I can't help but get stuck on this one -- must...try...to...move...on
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gtgarner
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 11:37:59
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If process flow code is now tied to color alterations then I vote for process flow.
I can go with not having color changes. If the developers need to spend time on something, let it be process flow.
Please don't re-activate color changes if it causes ANY impact on process/cpu load.
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Guitarpima
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 12:39:01
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Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
Some of the colors are changeable and some are not. However, you do need to restart X1 in order for most of the changes to take effect.
Overall, though, the experience with color schemes is going to be much a more uniform experience with X1 than it was with 8.5 and earlier.
Some stuff you can change, like clip colors, Time Ruler background, Clips Pane Background, etc.
And some stuff you can't change, like the color of the Control Bar or the Pro Channel's color.
What we did was try to make X1 as easy to work with as possible so you can focus less on tweaking color schemes and more on making music.
I sincerely hope you like the changes, but of course, feedback is always welcome.
Not a good sign to me. I am sick of staring at lights so much I use high contrast black with with fonts. I hope I am not going to have an increase in eye fatigue because I can't get rid of the bright crap that hurts my eyes.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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Guitarpima
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 12:43:26
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VariousArtist
Seth -- I see where you are coming from but I have to beg to disagree...
Why appear to offer the choice of changing colors to items like "Active Track" when it can't be done?
Why take away something that was offered before?
For some people (such as me), the contrast of colors is important because we don't pick up on the more subtle differences between, say, the color of an active track and a non-active track. I tend to make these things "blindingly" obvious by increasing the contrast/colors/etc.
Yes, ultimately it is all about making music and people who know me would hear me say that phrase a lot. But I'm not trying to make my screen "pretty" but rather make it more functional and obvious to me as to what is going on and I've found a color scheme that really worked for me in 8.5 is no longer possible in X1.
I guess in time I will get used to it, and you are correct that there is much else in X1 that has improved. But I have to say I'm surprised at the decision to "bake in" something that didn't seem to me to be a necessary path to take....
It's not good to have to get used to it. Sad really.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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ba_midi
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/08 13:32:39
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VariousArtist
buddy110 will become my buddy if he can enable color-overrides for me. I miss having different color backgrounds to distinguish tracks for audio, MIDI -- let alone folders and tracks.
I can't help but get stuck on this one -- must...try...to...move...on
WIth the disclaimer that I only spent a short time with X1 late last night, I must say that I, too, miss not having the ability to change "some" of the colors. And, it's not about how fancy or cute I want it to look. I am "hue blind" so some colors just don't stand out for me. I do see all colors but I just can't distinguish certain shades (hues) as clearly (since birth). So the color changes to tracks (Audio vs MIDI tracks as you mention for one example) does play an important role for me as well. I don't mind a "coherent" approach, as Seth points out, but I do think in the modern day of digital life we should have some flexibility. Even Microsoft had to re-think their big change to Office when 2007's interface wasn't quite as accepted as they had hoped. So it will be interesting to see how much howling might take place about these new "appearance tweaking" limitations.
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SONARtist
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/18 18:29:22
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My 2 cents on this ...
Sure, we had a lot of color tweaking capabilities before X1 (which, as Seth said, could take a fair amount of time setting up), but we are now stuck with hardly any possibilities to enable distinguishing features between track types, folders, and whatever else that was extremely helpful before.
I would like to see maybe a "restricted set" of color change capabilities, which is not as top-heavy as before, but which gives us some badly needed visual aids in our workflow. ("back to the feature" !!!)
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yorolpal
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/18 18:51:55
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Yup...I don't care what sort of marketing or "workflow" spin the bakers try to sell the new "uncustomizable" color scheme...it ain't gonna fly. They might as well just give up now on that one and give us back the ability to change em at will. Seth says we don't have to tinker with the interface anymore to make it look good...horsepuckey!!! Looks good to who? He also says it's all about just "making music". How can you be inspired to make great music on a program you don't want to even look at?? That doesn't have to do anything but sit on the screen to irritate you? Yea, that's an environment that's just peachy for the creative process.
Plus...as someone alluded above...in 8.5 and before when you changed a color in the dialog you saw the change immediately on screen making it tres easy to develop your "personalized" workplace. That's gotta come back mui pronto. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE COLOR!!! IT'S ABOUT THE PERSONALIZATION!!! And that's coming from someone who actually LIKES some of the new GUI!! I'm really trying to help you guys at Cake out here...no head patting...no there theres...no spin. Just give us back our colors.
Thank you for listening...I'll take my answer off the air.
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noldar12
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/18 20:10:18
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Seth, unfortunately, the choices the bakers made in regard to color schemes dooms my use of the application.
One of the most important things that drew me to Sonar in the first place was the color customization. I have extremely severely reduced vision and HAVE to be able to control color schemes. Some light colors fatigue my eyesight causing severe eyestrain in five minutes or so, certain extreme light colors blind me almost completely.
You say we need to concentrate on making music... the new color scheme changes will likely make it nearly impossible for me to make music using any future version of Sonar.
I do realize that my specific situation is that of a "statistical outliner," but one of the things I appreciated about previous versions of Sonar is that the program was flexible enough to allow at least some adjustments for uncommon situations (there were some things in previous versions that could not be changed as well).
Default standardization: fine. But, for those of us who cannot use "default" the fact that we cannot make major changes away from "default" may be (or is) an absolute deal breaker.
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noldar12
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/18 20:34:26
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I should add that depending on patches/ongoing user's comments, I may try a demo of X1 at some point, once one becomes available, to see if there would be some way to get it to work or not. But, for now, from user's comments, the X1 published screen shots, as well as CW employee's comments, I dare not take the risk of spending the money for a paid upgrade when all current indications are that I will not be able to use the program.
post edited by noldar12 - 2010/12/18 20:36:59
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yorolpal
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/18 21:15:32
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This is exactly what I was referring to. It is not just about asthetics. It is about making the program work for YOU. Whoever YOU happens to be. I want to be able to just look up and see which tracks are "frozen", which tracks are "archived", which tracks are "Kontakt 4", which tracks are "audio", which tracks are "midi", which tracks are "Omnisphere", which tracks are "Superior Drummer 2", etc....etc...etc... and all in the colors I NEED to let me know that. Plus as noldar12 so succinctly puts it. Many of us need to be able to control the colors JUST SO WE CAN USE THE PROGRAM. I would add "you numbnuts" to the previous sentence but, as I have a special place in my heart for you, will not. All this does lead me to a conclusion which I'll explore in a new thread entitled "Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??" Look for it in a forum near you soon!!
post edited by yorolpal - 2010/12/18 21:28:19
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dlion16
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/19 01:13:11
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i could live with the track view. but in the console view on my 2-mon system, the lt. grey bg is too bright, but worse, i can't read the level numbers (e.g. -12.7) on the faders, the font is too small and they are obscured by the group button, and there is not enough contrast with the bg.
change is ok, but when you try to say that "we've decided what colors you like," after an infinitely customizable palette for years, it leaves me cold.
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LpMike75
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/19 02:02:43
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I could live with all of the colors except please make it when I highlight a track it turns bright yellow like in the previous versions. Instead of now where it goes from dark to a little darker...I cant tell 1/2 the time if the track is highlighted or not, that slows me down probably more than anything else at this point
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didap
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/19 03:35:27
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yorolpal
Looks good to who? He also says it's all about just "making music". How can you be inspired to make great music on a program you don't want to even look at?? That doesn't have to do anything but sit on the screen to irritate you? Yea, that's an environment that's just peachy for the creative process.
I COMPLETELY agree with Yoropal about making fun with a program because you like the look and feel. That is why I decided after two weeks of trying getting used to the look and feel of X1, to lay X1 beside and working with 8.5 again. Working with Sonar 8.5 gives me joy, a logical workflow, look and feel that makes me glad, and ALL those things are the MOST important for me in making music that is inspired. The feeling of getting home, I have that with 8.5, and not at all with X1 yet. I get depressed of that grey, light grey, black and light black, the big letters, unlogical and unused spaces between items, the less info, indeed the bad console view, sometimes clicking more steps to do the same as in 8.5 (open a file, save a project, etc).
post edited by didap - 2010/12/19 03:37:35
Best regards,
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gtgarner
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/19 22:01:35
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This is very interesting. I remember when everyone was saying that 8.5 was the horrible product....and everyone went back to 8.3 or 8.0 as the safe secure version.
Its just amazing that the new version is ALWAYS the criticized version. Hey Cakewalk, hurry up and get another version out there. X1 will be the safe version and X2 will be the criticized version.
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Guitarpima
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/19 23:47:11
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gtgarner
This is very interesting. I remember when everyone was saying that 8.5 was the horrible product....and everyone went back to 8.3 or 8.0 as the safe secure version.
Its just amazing that the new version is ALWAYS the criticized version. Hey Cakewalk, hurry up and get another version out there. X1 will be the safe version and X2 will be the criticized version.
There are few who will "criticize" but that's not what most people do. If we don't tell the programmers how we feel about the product, they won't be able to make it better. Your right though. This always happens. There is only one way to stop it. Stop making new products. Is that what you would like?
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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rbowser
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/20 00:39:12
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Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
...
Overall, though, the experience with color schemes is going to be much a more uniform experience with X1 than it was with 8.5 and earlier.
--! I'll need to go in and experiment some more, I see. This was one of the first issues that came up after the release of X1. I started a thread, "Please give us some color" and the response was overwhelming that our ability to change the color is extremely limited. I finally amped up the saturation, to at least pump some color in the somber, bland, gray landscape - but it's still pretty depressing looking. I did change the track background color a bit - but I haven't seen anyone say they've successfully changed the track headers or the CV. I'll experiment yet again - But I thought for sure it was already said by someone at Cakewalk that some of the color editing options were broken and would be fixed. -- ? This post just surprised me, Seth - I really thought it was already established that we can't do much with color at all. - I want to add that I've Never, and I really mean Never worried about the color of any program before. I've never spent time editing the default colors of any software I use - But X1 is so relentlessly gray and sad looking. If I can pump some life into the way the program looks, I know it will help me be a much happier camper as I try to use X1. Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
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StepD
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/20 00:51:27
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rbowser
Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
...
Overall, though, the experience with color schemes is going to be much a more uniform experience with X1 than it was with 8.5 and earlier.
--! I'll need to go in and experiment some more, I see. This was one of the first issues that came up after the release of X1. I started a thread, "Please give us some color" and the response was overwhelming that our ability to change the color is extremely limited. I finally amped up the saturation, to at least pump some color in the somber, bland, gray landscape - but it's still pretty depressing looking.
I did change the track background color a bit - but I haven't seen anyone say they've successfully changed the track headers or the CV.
I'll experiment yet again - But I thought for sure it was already said by someone at Cakewalk that some of the color editing options were broken and would be fixed. -- ?
This post just surprised me, Seth - I really thought it was already established that we can't do much with color at all. - I want to add that I've Never, and I really mean Never worried about the color of any program before. I've never spent time editing the default colors of any software I use - But X1 is so relentlessly gray and sad looking. If I can pump some life into the way the program looks, I know it will help me be a much happier camper as I try to use X1.
Randy B.
I've gotta think the broken color stuff will be fixed in the patch. Seth posted that comment on release day, and I'm assuming he didn't realize there were problems (could be wrong).
Core2 6600 2.40 GHz, ASUS P5B Deluxe, 8GB RAM, GeForce GT 630 2GB, 3 Seagate Sata, Echo AudioFire 4 asio, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab
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rbowser
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/20 00:51:44
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"...much of X1's color scheme is baked and served as is..."
Yikes! - I looked through more of this thread and just saw that from you, Seth.
The color is a D I S A S T E R in X1. Forcing this uninspiring and difficult-to-look at interface has a huge impact on our feelings about a program that's already giving us enough headaches just trying to fathom how it's supposed to work.
Yiiiiiiikes.
RB
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Tweeg
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/20 02:21:39
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ba_midi
Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
Some of the colors are changeable and some are not. However, you do need to restart X1 in order for most of the changes to take effect.
Overall, though, the experience with color schemes is going to be much a more uniform experience with X1 than it was with 8.5 and earlier.
Some stuff you can change, like clip colors, Time Ruler background, Clips Pane Background, etc.
And some stuff you can't change, like the color of the Control Bar or the Pro Channel's color.
What we did was try to make X1 as easy to work with as possible so you can focus less on tweaking color schemes and more on making music.
I sincerely hope you like the changes, but of course, feedback is always welcome.
While I have said repeatedly to lower our expectations, I sure was hoping "frozen" tracks didn't have that "all the same color" as in previous versions. Sigh - no change there either I see :(
This really should be addressed in the future.
I would really like that as well.
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gtgarner
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Re:Edit -> Preferences -> Colors ... not showing changes?
2010/12/20 07:12:35
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Is this color thing a "bug"? Is this really "broken"? Or is it just different? I'm reminded of another popular DAW that I use where color changes is not an option. The users of this other DAW arent able to change that DAWs colors to look like something Toys-R-US (Mattel) sells. I don't see many complaints on the forum. I even see some solutions on the forum that respond like "Press the grey button on the left under the white button". Everyone's screen on that other DAW looks the same. When you go to studios and see this other DAW, everyone can understand everyone elses screen because they look the same. That has saved me lots of time in studios concerning workflow. Anyway, I've put my football helmet on because I know the nay-sayers are about to throw bricks at me.
post edited by gtgarner - 2010/12/20 07:14:27
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