It is funny how everyone is talking now about BPM and Maschine, but I don't remember such craze when GURU came out. Even though GURU had about 80% of functionality of either. And don't get started with the Maschine's integrated controller - GURU 1.5 has such an extensive MIDI implementation, that one can map a controller to every single aspect of that application, including the browser.

BTW, I got my answer to which is better - BPM or Maschine. It is Live 8.

Digging up an old thread here because over the past 7 months, I've gone through Guru, BPM, and just purchased Maschine.  It didn't take me more than a few hours with Maschine to declare it the hands-down winner IMO.  I wanted to like Guru, but too many things about it just bug me (particularly that terrible GUI - wtf were they thinking?) and with the pending release of D-Cam, FXpansion will be busy for a long time with bug fixes, updates, etc., so I don't expect to see Guru 2 any time soon.

BPM puts Guru 1 to shame.  Yeah, I know a lot of people don't like the fact that MOTU essentially ripped Guru off (I kinda subscribed to that sentiment at one point myself), but, hey, let's face it - Guru just ripped off Akai, right?  Anyway, BPM is pretty cool, but something about just doesn't feel "right" to me and I really wanted to have a dedicated controller, so I sold off a few goodies (BPM will probably be on the market soon BTW, once I bounce my project's BPM tracks to audio) and bought Maschine.  It's incredible.  It is to drum machines what my Virus TI is to synths - virtually every control is dedicated, so there are no CC#s to deal with, no MIDI learn/forget, no ACT, no templates, no trying to remember what knob #4 is controlling, etc. - it just works and doesn't get in the way of making music.  The pads feel great (much better than my old MPD24) and the hardware is pretty solid.  Some people think it's on the overpriced side, but I disagree.  Maschine is deep and is very thoughtfully implemented from a musician's standpoint.  And, it's NI, so I just know that it's going to have great support and long lifetime of development.  But, I also admit that I'm a little awestruck with it because it's new to me, so we'll see how I feel about it once the honeymoon is over.

Anyway, just thought I'd share my opinions in case anyone's interested.

but isn't BMP geared towards Urban music?  will a user have to add additional samples and use their own library that's more suited for electronic music?  The way it looks is that BMP is marketed as a hip hop, rap, r&b beat production workstation.  I would definitely think about picking one of these up if there website that promotes BPM make it sound like this would be good for electronic music, especially Dance, Techno, Trance, EBM, Industrial, Synthpop and other genres of electronic music.

Machine looks very enticing and it's made by Native Instruments which you all know are makers of instruments geared towards electronic music.  Plus you get hardware + software and not just a photo that resembles a true piece of hardware.

syntheticpop

but isn't BMP geared towards Urban music?  will a user have to add additional samples and use their own library that's more suited for electronic music?  The way it looks is that BMP is marketed as a hip hop, rap, r&b beat production workstation.  I would definitely think about picking one of these up if there website that promotes BPM make it sound like this would be good for electronic music, especially Dance, Techno, Trance, EBM, Industrial, Synthpop and other genres of electronic music.

Yeah, BPM's library has a large proportion of hip-hop/RnB samples and kits, but there are also a lot of EDM/EBM/IDM samples/kits there as well.  But, I have my own sample libraries that I use and I rarely use the included content in any drum VST (aside from Stylus RMX).  And, it's very easy to add your own libraries to BPM's favorites and import and use those samples in your projects (although nowhere near as usable as Maschine's!).  But, aside from the disproportionate amount of hip-hop/RnB samples, there is really nothing feature- or function-wise that makes BPM exclusive to those styles.  I'd recommend it over Guru for EDM any day, but that's just my opinion.

syntheticpop

Just read some user reviews of Machine and it looks like the software that accompanies it is still buggy.

Yeah, I've read about some bugs, but haven't experienced any of them yet.  That's not surprising and it definitely doesn't mean that it's unusable by any means.  The 1.1 update is finishing up beta testing and will reportedly be available soon - that update is reportedly going to address most of the bugs and add some new features/functions.

syntheticpop

Musicansfriend has GURU on Clearance and labels it as being discontinued so perhaps there will be a new version of Guru soon. 

That's because FXpansion went to download-only a few months ago, so no retailers are selling Guru anymore.

syntheticpop

so the samples included in BPM aren't as usable as Machines?  so Machine's samples are easier to incorporate into a song because they sound better?

Depends on your definition of "usable".  IMHO, the libraries in Guru, BPM, and Maschine are all good and usable, I just prefer using my third-party samples.  Also, the samples are all in .wav format, so you can use the samples (but not the kits) interchangeably if you own two or more of these VSTs.

syntheticpop

NickP, which one did you choose?

I'm pretty sure that he never bought any of them and, the last I remember reading, he has switched platforms and is now not making music with a Mac/Logic.

so Nick P is no longer a part of the Sonar universe?