strikinglyhandsome1
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RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2009/04/17 17:20:07
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Deleting Measures or Time from One or More Tracks
There are two methods for deleting time or measures:
If there is any audio or MIDI data in the area you want to delete, you can use the Edit-Delete command to delete the area that you select. Portions of MIDI clips may have no data in them: they have boundaries but no dark lines inside--if that's the case, use the following method.
If there is no data in the area you want to delete, you can simply drag any clips that come after the empty area to their proper destinations. You can also use this method if there is data in the area you want to delete--you just have to choose whether you want to replace the data in the deleted area, blend it with the data you're moving, or slide it over to make room.
To delete time when there is audio or MIDI data in the area you want to delete:
In the Track view, select the track(s) you want to delete measures or time from by doing one of the following:
Select a single track by clicking the track number.
Select multiple tracks by Ctrl-clicking the track numbers.
Set the Snap to Grid value to the unit of time you want to delete. For example, if you want to delete whole measures, set the Snap to Grid value to a whole measure.
In the Clips pane, select the measures or time you want to delete by dragging in the Time Ruler located just above the first track.
Select Edit-Delete.
The Delete dialog box appears.
Click the following checkboxes:
Events in Tracks
Delete Hole--if you want the data that comes after the hole to retain its same placement in a measure, check the Shift by Whole Measures option.
Click any of the other options you want to delete.
Click OK.
SONAR deletes the time or measures you selected.
To delete time when there is no audio or MIDI data in the area you want to delete (or if there is data, but you like to drag and drop):
Set the Snap to Grid value to the unit of time you want to delete. For example, if you want to delete whole measures, set the Snap to Grid value to a whole measure.
In the Track view, select the clips you want to move.
Drag one of the selected clips to its proper destination--the Drag and Drop Options dialog box appears.
Choose options and click OK.
All the selected clips move by the amount that you dragged the mouse.
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RTGraham
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RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2009/04/18 03:01:26
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ORIGINAL: strikinglyhandsome1
Deleting Measures or Time from One or More Tracks
There are two methods for deleting time or measures:
If there is any audio or MIDI data in the area you want to delete, you can use the Edit-Delete command to delete the area that you select. Portions of MIDI clips may have no data in them: they have boundaries but no dark lines inside--if that's the case, use the following method.
If there is no data in the area you want to delete, you can simply drag any clips that come after the empty area to their proper destinations. You can also use this method if there is data in the area you want to delete--you just have to choose whether you want to replace the data in the deleted area, blend it with the data you're moving, or slide it over to make room.
To delete time when there is audio or MIDI data in the area you want to delete:
In the Track view, select the track(s) you want to delete measures or time from by doing one of the following:
Select a single track by clicking the track number.
Select multiple tracks by Ctrl-clicking the track numbers.
Set the Snap to Grid value to the unit of time you want to delete. For example, if you want to delete whole measures, set the Snap to Grid value to a whole measure.
In the Clips pane, select the measures or time you want to delete by dragging in the Time Ruler located just above the first track.
Select Edit-Delete.
The Delete dialog box appears.
Click the following checkboxes:
Events in Tracks
Delete Hole--if you want the data that comes after the hole to retain its same placement in a measure, check the Shift by Whole Measures option.
Click any of the other options you want to delete.
Click OK.
SONAR deletes the time or measures you selected.
To delete time when there is no audio or MIDI data in the area you want to delete (or if there is data, but you like to drag and drop):
Set the Snap to Grid value to the unit of time you want to delete. For example, if you want to delete whole measures, set the Snap to Grid value to a whole measure.
In the Track view, select the clips you want to move.
Drag one of the selected clips to its proper destination--the Drag and Drop Options dialog box appears.
Choose options and click OK.
All the selected clips move by the amount that you dragged the mouse. This is all well and good, but there are circumstances - especially with regard to bus envelopes - where the results will be unpredictable at best. See Marah's quote below. ORIGINAL: Marah
I find that sliding multiple tracks horizontally becomes increasingly cumbersome as track count and project complexity increases. Throw envelopes into the mix, and buses, and it can become a major operation. The same can apply to inserting and deleting time during the song. Even when these procedures work, confidence that they HAVE worked the way you want isn't terribly high until proven innocent. I can only imagine how it is when tempo changes are involved. I'll often elongate or shorten measures by a beat or two, after I've already done recording, creating 1-measure meter changes, and it's always something I dread and that I've never been able to just do. (Though I know that it CAN be done.)
Agreed. Currently, to create a shortened edit of a full mix, I have to bounce to stems first, because otherwise I can't count on automation surviving a "Delete Hole" command intact. ORIGINAL: Marah
'Ripple' editing would also help when deleting and/or inserting multitrack time.
Not familiar with that term - could you elaborate?
~~~~~~~~~~ Russell T. Graham Keys, Vocals, Songwriting, Production russell DOT graham AT rtgproductions DOT com www DOT myspace DOT com SLASH russelltgraham
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Marah
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RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2009/04/18 05:32:44
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"Ripple editing" is a way of inserting or deleting across one or more tracks. It might be called other things in different audio and video apps. I know it from working in Reaper. It's basically a way to determine how elements on tracks and in time (clips, automation, markers) behave when sections are inserted and deleted. When editing in Sonar, you have options like Delete hole, Blend Old and New, Replace Old with New, Slide Over Old to Make Room, include/exclude automation, and so on. The way this works in Reaper is, you have three ripple modes -- Off, One Track, and All Tracks. In the last two modes, cutting/deleting or inserting will cause one or all tracks to shift in the appropriate direction by the appropriate amount. IOW, they "ripple." I haven't closely compared Sonar and Reaper on this. It's possible that Sonar offers more granularity in its options, e.g., whether to include markers or automation. And granularity is always nice in these things. But by defining the most used options for time/object insertion/deletion as modes (which of course interact with other independent settings, like Snap, x-fade, etc.), as opposed to presenting them as la carte options (which of course they can still be accessed as), sectional surgery becomes a much more straightforward process. Being able to define time sections as formal Regions (essentially 2-point markers, but which are independent of actual Markers) makes the process even smoother, since a single click allows copying or moving a pre-determined single- or multi-track Region (e.g., the confounded brg.) All in all, it's a much less fraught and (at least seemingly) fragile and error prone process. I am NOT saying that having these different "ripple" modes actually brings any new end-result-functionality into existence. I AM saying that I have found it to offer a more creativity-conducive workflow. I'm very (too!) familiar with the render-to-stems-to-try-a-new-song-structure routine. Moving sections around is nearly nothing. You still have to be careful and know what you're doing. Every song/arrangement/production/mix presents its own unique set of issues once this kind of surgery begins. Things don't always work the first time, but it's due more to not having thought through exactly what you're doing (doh! I need to cut 1/8th sooner on tracks 13 , 19, and 42) than on not having finessed an obstacle course while reading a lot of dialog fine print. I like that a lot. It's a workflow thing.
post edited by Marah - 2009/04/18 06:01:06
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markmcg
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RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2009/04/18 06:10:22
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All DAW's do not work like Sonar. If you Select All in Logic, you can drag everything to the left (earlier). This threw me off too when I first tried in Sonar and I had to post here to be told otherwise.
So liv4ree, it may have not been clear in the earlier posts that you have to rubberband or shift-click all of your tracks to select them all NOT do the command "Select All" (Cntrl A) in order to select everything and drag it to the left.
In the end I understand how the Timeline works but it's still wierd and I believe unique to Sonar / Cakewalk.
Mark
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RTGraham
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RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2009/04/18 09:37:48
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ORIGINAL: Marah
"Ripple editing" is a way of inserting or deleting across one or more tracks. It might be called other things in different audio and video apps. I know it from working in Reaper.
Thanks for the explanation. I don't really mind the way SONAR does it, except that its handling of bus envelopes in this regard is still, three versions later, completely broken, as verified by users on this forum - and that's the main reason I'm still running 6.2.1. I had been thinking about moving to SONAR 8 now that I'm nearly done with a large project, but this reminder of the broken envelope editing is making me rethink that again. ("Rethink that again" - file that with the Department of Redundancy Department?)
~~~~~~~~~~ Russell T. Graham Keys, Vocals, Songwriting, Production russell DOT graham AT rtgproductions DOT com www DOT myspace DOT com SLASH russelltgraham
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gtrshop
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RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2009/04/18 11:02:36
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Two things you could try...which is up to you
Quite often I leave space at the front of a project for different reasons.
1/ Create a Marker at the point where you want the project to start. This will leave you 30 seconds of silence, if you need it there.
or
2/ Split all clips at the same time. Delete the "silence" in all clips. You should be able to slide all clips to the left now.
Steve
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martin s
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RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2009/04/18 13:15:32
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you can also keep your project intact, and then work with the stereo-mixdown,import your mix into sonar & then grab,drag the clip to your desired starting position. martin
post edited by martin s - 2009/04/18 13:35:19
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liv4ree
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RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2009/04/20 10:51:05
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Update: Placing a marker at the start and end of the song, pressing ctrl + A, then selecting the region in the timeline between the markers worked like a charm.
Thanks to everyone for your help... Till next time :)
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beethoven17
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Re: RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2009/08/29 12:09:36
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Just wanted to resurrect this thread because of a little problem I just hit. I don't think there's a way round it, but if anyone knows one I'd love to hear it!
I wanted to delete some empty measures from the start of a piece, so used the drag-move method. Fine...except that all the carefully tailored tempo changes I'd made DIDN'T move, and are now in the wrong place.
Is there any way to move the tempo map too?
andrew Sonar 8.5 PE, Saffire LE, Garritan Steinway & Orchestra, EZDummer, Rapture, Truepiano, no voice, little talent
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VinylJunkie
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Re: RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2009/08/29 17:02:07
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Is there any way to move the tempo map too? I think (not 100% sure) that using cut and paste instead of dragging will move the tempo map as well
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John
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RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2009/08/29 17:05:52
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Update: Placing a marker at the start and end of the song, pressing ctrl + A, then selecting the region in the timeline between the markers worked like a charm. Thanks to everyone for your help... Till next time :) I have found that if you have snap on it is hard to move anything. Turn it off to move tracks.
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beethoven17
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Re: RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2009/08/29 17:40:43
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VinylJunkie
I think (not 100% sure) that using cut and paste instead of dragging will move the tempo map as well
YES, you're absulutely right - in fact you have the option of including or excluding Tempo Changes. I suppose like most people I tend to drag rather than cut and paste, and didn't realise the option was there. Thanks very much for that information!
andrew Sonar 8.5 PE, Saffire LE, Garritan Steinway & Orchestra, EZDummer, Rapture, Truepiano, no voice, little talent
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jasonthurley
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Re: RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2010/07/22 17:17:19
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This thread is so confusing!
Simply done:
Step one Select ALL
Step 2 click on the timeline where your audio starts
Step 3 Go to Edit SPLIT
Step 4 Hit DELETE
This will remove everything before you audio starts
Then zoom out and select each track by holding down Ctrl and clicking on them...
Now you have selected all the audio tracks..
Now go to File Export Audio and Whalla...
Have fun
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jasonthurley
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Re: RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2010/07/22 17:20:17
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Another very easy way to do it is to get a simple wave editor like this: http://www.nch.com.au/wavepad/index.html It is free... Just import the file and delete the beginning with no audio... I would recommend getting familiar with Sonar though
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devilcat78
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RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2010/07/23 00:47:47
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RTGraham
ORIGINAL: ba_midi
Another approach is to select all (CTRL A) and literally drag everything to the left.
Hi Billy -
Just thought I should post a follow-up to this particular point, as I've seen the behavior the original poster is describing.
I've had projects where I have empty space (or at least what I think is empty space) before any clips start, and I want to move everything to zero. If I select all with Ctrl-A, SONAR also selects the blank space, and refuses to move anything to the left - as far as the program is concerned, it can't more zero earlier than zero. You have to only select the clips themselves.
Had this problem as well. If you select all clips and move to the right first, then to the left it will work, just a little work around. I have even had problems moving audio recorded after 0:00:00 to the left before moving it to the right first.
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ba_midi
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RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2010/07/23 01:41:22
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devilcat78
RTGraham
ORIGINAL: ba_midi
Another approach is to select all (CTRL A) and literally drag everything to the left.
Hi Billy -
Just thought I should post a follow-up to this particular point, as I've seen the behavior the original poster is describing.
I've had projects where I have empty space (or at least what I think is empty space) before any clips start, and I want to move everything to zero. If I select all with Ctrl-A, SONAR also selects the blank space, and refuses to move anything to the left - as far as the program is concerned, it can't more zero earlier than zero. You have to only select the clips themselves.
Had this problem as well. If you select all clips and move to the right first, then to the left it will work, just a little work around. I have even had problems moving audio recorded after 0:00:00 to the left before moving it to the right first.
I suspect, as John pointed out earlier in the thread, this is due to the SnapToGrid setting. One approach is to disable the Grid for the move, then re-enable as usual. This is subject to the data. An example is - if you have an upbeat (anacrusis) in one of the clips in the selection, and moving all the clips to the left trying to get them to line up at the very first beat - with the Grid set to "Whole" (just for this example), then Sonar won't do the move. So with that in mind, one has to be aware of what data is being moved, how the grid will affect the move, and whether or not to enable or disable the grid would be useful.
post edited by ba_midi - 2010/07/23 01:44:02
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devilcat78
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RE: Moving audio to beginning.
2010/07/23 16:23:53
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My only experience with this problem is mainly with multitrack audio sessions WITHOUT the Grid icon turned on. I rarely use the grid, and made it default to off in my session templates hoping it would fix this issue, but it didn't. I'm fine with my work around. Thanks.
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