Can I start a sequence at measure -1 (minus 1)?

No. Unfortunately there's no way in SONAR to make measure numbers match the project if a count-in measure is used.

I've done a bit of searching on this forum now..

...Turns out other people have been suggesting just this very same thing since at least 2005!! (not just because of ease when transcribing/following a score, but for SysEx, fx/vst loading, or just time to sit down and prepare for recording at bar #1 without weird/non-musical/out-of-tempo midi count-downs)

Really very strange why Roland has not implemented something like this as a feature yet, with virtual instruments taking over DAWs nowadays, to name an example.

I keep on waiting for really simple improvements -like this, or menu sidebars (with browser-like moving sliders)- on Sonar, but alas, nothing.

Ok, so, did a little Photoshop, in order to better illustrate my idea for count-in measures:
(I have a larger photo but I dunno if everyone could see it as I only have large LCD)



The count-in area could work as an on/off function or button.
There would be several advantages to this, including:

- You could simply use an audio drum/cymbal sample as a non sync-dependent (precise/worry free!) metronome. One could even use the project's drums from the sequence.

- You would 'start' your sequence effectively at measure 1, and keep a REAL order when composing!

- Transcribe large printed scores with matching measure numbers!!

- Notice the first midi track has some SysEx.

- You could decide to use the count-in area simply as a much more reliable (VISUAL) preparation for recording!

- You could keep the added noise of an amp to a guitar track before the actual song begins (cool/realistic feature!)

- A simple couple of buttons could turn the 'count in area' on/off and mute/unmute (without erasing it's contents). In this example its yellow when on (it could turn like dark grey when off or something)

ORIGINAL: bryan2449

Just add a couple of measures at the beginning. You should do this anyway for preliminary MIDI messages to be processed before the actual music starts. As far as measures lining up - you'll always know that the measures in the DAW are off by 2 (or whatever). For scores, use sibelius or finale... not SONAR.

It's not the same at all. And like Jonbouy wrote, different customers use different lead-ins which may lead to a mess.

It's probably not trivial to implement (from a technical POV) since all timestamps would potentially need to be recalculated and calculations based on 0=0 re-done.

It's probably not trivial to implement (from a technical POV) since all timestamps would potentially need to be recalculated and calculations based on 0=0 re-done.

Why wouldn't it be trivial there's only one simple function required?

If there is an offset applied to the project then the timestamp = timestamp - offset.

The timeline is only a measurement scale, it's exactly the same in principal as applying a margin to a page in a word processor, paint program or anything else surely.

...-2, -1, 1, 2...
ought to be ...-2, -1, 0, 1, 2...

ORIGINAL: Kev999

...-2, -1, 1, 2...
ought to be ...-2, -1, 0, 1, 2...

I KNEW someone would eventually say that! lol
You don't think about it as a ruler; there's no ''measure 0''

The negative numbering could indeed be somewhat confusing; a simple color change would suffice I guess:



Of course you should be able to put in as many measures/markers/tempo changes etc as you want.
I don't think of it as part of the sequence, but rather a very improved audio/midi/data count-in (where you can store all the same data as with normal measures).
A 'ghost area', if you will.

Notice that the play cursor(bar) is at the beginning of the count-in area.

ORIGINAL: quoricsant

You don't think about it as a ruler...

Actually it is a ruler. You can call it something different if you wish, but it's still a ruler.

This would also be helpful for things like Audiosnap, where you define the FIRST measure for counting beats and transients and all that hoopla.

Yet ANOTHER advantage would be the possibility of using a huge 'count-in area' for loose riffs, unfinished or B versions of strophes, unfinished versions of the whole project, etc.
Then, the 'clean' (final) version would start at measure 1!

Turn it 'on' and you have ALL of your project's ideas within a single sequence (if you open more than 1 version of your project as a different sequence, all VST instruments/plugins and wav files reload twice!).
Turn it 'off,' and you can hear/work on your finalized version only!
Again, all within the same sequence.

ORIGINAL: quoricsant

Look at a plastic ruler. It stars at 0 cm/inches.
Now look at your Sonar sequence.

Try right-clicking on it to see what Cakewalk call it, i.e. "Time Ruler".

Ruler is a more general term than you think. It's not just the name of a specific physical object

Would be nice to have along with the notation upgrade

ORIGINAL: Kev999

Why would you want a 'measure 0'?
Why are you talking about that? My example is in measures:beats:clicks, as Sonar handles them

I already acknowledged that having negative numbers was confusing...
This is why I fixed it

We appear to be getting sidetracked.

There are two good feature suggestions here:

1. The ability to offset the Time Ruler by a negative amount.

2. The ability to split the timeline into several sections displayed in different colours, each with a separate independent Time Ruler.

These two feature suggestions would both get my vote.

Let's not get into disputes about whether it's best to count from zero, one or a negative number, because different users will each have their own preference. And if the above ideas were implementated, then users could choose this for themselves anyway.

Yes you are right