mudgel
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 09:11:48
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JClosed
Hmmm... I have heard BitBridge does some weird things now and then. That´s why a lot of people use Jbridge now. I wonder if this is the problem...
Better break everything down to a single culprit..
Sadly I do not have a Windows 7 - 64bit machine at this moment. I will look around if I can find a spare hard disk and install the 30-day version of Win7 - 64 bit, and going to see under what circumstances V-Vocal crashes. I am afraid it will take some time
however.. I don't think I can do this in the very short term...
Anyway - did you already tried a simple project with only one audio track? If V-Vocal does not crash you can add more and more things (like Kontakt etc.) until you found the "crash" combination. If you don't have time for that I am afraid you have to wait until I have the "64bit" up and running...
This has to be sorted out, and only experimenting can nail the offender.
VVocal is actually a DX plugin that is built in and shared across all currently installed versions of SONAR. It does not have any connection to Bitbridge or jBridge of any kind. In my case I have a project file 1 vocal track, nothing elks no plugins of any sort. Doesn't matter waht I do as soo as I select the track or part of the clip and select create VVocal clip The screen goes to white and never recovers. I close SONAR X1a down via the task manger process end. i open up sonar 8.3 or 8.5 X86 or x64 and the same vocal track and enable VVocal create VVocal clip and it does I can edit muck arounfd all I want and it works fine. now these dlls are shared across the 32bit versions and across the 64 bit versions of SONAR on any given machine. What is in X1a that causes this problem. just one of many inexplicable issues with X1a
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 10:20:25
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Mike just tried V-Vocal on a simple vocal track and it works fine. I know that's not much help. My system's in my sig.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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bitflipper
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 12:32:25
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+1 for freezing synths, and if the problem can be duplicated with everything frozen and all bus effects disabled, send the whole project to CW. If the problem goes away, start un-freezing one at a time until the problem comes back.
The fact that it only occurs in X1 and not 8.5.3 would seem to suggest a plugin conflict of some kind, since X1 is basically 8.5 under the hood, chronus.dll hasn't been updated, and has few external dependencies. Can you open the same project in 8.5?
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Twigman
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 14:06:33
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Doing the freezing now......but why should I? It should just work, whatever.....my system is within specification and my plugs comply with VST standards...my OS is supported.....the fact that it doesn't work can hardly be my fault...and what's different with X1A that makes it happen only in this environment?.....
Given the fact that i an using several ProChannels and I am not ready to commit them to 'tape' I won't be able to open this project in 8.5......thinking about it, the only thing in X1 that's not in 8.5 is the ProChannel - perhaps the ProChannel is causing the VV failure? .....
You all saying that VV works for you is making me feel like it's my fault, that I'm doing something wrong...many of you seem to be x86 users so maybe it's an x64 thing? Whatever here I go wasting HDD space and time by going through freezing all my plugs...let's see what happens.
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bitflipper
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 14:36:08
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 Unlikely that it's your fault, Twig, or that you're doing anything wrong. But clearly you have some unusual combination of factors at play, something the developers have not anticipated and/or tested. That's why it's important for you to figure out what's going on, to the benefit of all of us. Otherwise, it might never be resolved.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Michael Lee
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 14:46:25
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And how do you get the Control Panel back at the top/...mine's just dark grey now with the Now time counter in black being the only thing visible on it.... OK my V-Vocal has worked fine, so no idea how to help you there, but the "dark grey control bar"??? Drove me CRAZY til I figured it out, right click in the grey space, and a window opens, I think one of the options is "show all" or something, and the control bar re-appears magically ;-)
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Twigman
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 15:22:04
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Freezing EVERYTHING has allowed me to play with VV!!! HURRAH!!!
but I've hit another problemo....
....I am happily going through the vocal line by line, chopping the clips into smaller clips and VVing each 'mini-clip' correcting tuning then bouncing to clip before I move to the next line....now I get to a clip which I create a VV clip for but nothing comes up in the GUI and the clip is just flatlined in the TV....I found the wav file on my HDD and re-imported it, hoping it would create the graphic..but no - it still looks flatlined and there's no visible wave form in VV.....so how do I fix this one?
LOL
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Twigman
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 15:23:00
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When I've finished the VV editing I will attempt to identify the guilty plug for the benefit of all.
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Twigman
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 15:23:01
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When I've finished the VV editing I will attempt to identify the guilty plug for the benefit of all.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 15:49:53
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Twigman
When I've finished the VV editing I will attempt to identify the guilty plug for the benefit of all.
That's appreciated Twig. Best of luck, and let us know what's up with the flat line too if you'd be so kind.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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Bub 
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 15:51:15
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I'm wondering if it's got nothing to do with VV but something to do with how clips are handled?
I just clicked the 'Stretch To Temp' check box for a clip and X1 froze. I tried it several times and I can repeat the crash. One thing I've noticed with X1 though, when it does freeze and I have to forcefully close it, I don't have to reboot. I always had to with 8.5.3.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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kubalibre
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 15:55:11
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By the way, why is CW dragging along the antique DX technology, which many other hosts dumped years ago? Is there even a developer who still provides DX plugins? CW should dump DX and move along with VST3 like Presonus, Steinberg
--------------------------------------------- all crash on the louspeaker
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Twigman
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 16:21:43
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I am noticing a strange behaviour....after VV editing then bouncing to clips the VV'd clips 'look muted' but still sound....this making identifying which clips are playing and which not a nightmare...I have 5 layers of vocal clips in the one track [5 takes] and the 'mix' needs to keep switching from layer to layer but now I can't tell which clips are live!!!!
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Twigman
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 16:35:20
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Ok so it was a plug under Bitbridge that seemed to cause the V-Vocal crash.
I unfroze all the x64 plugs first and after unfreezing each one created a VV clip...no problemo.
As soon as I unfroze the first (of7) instance of ReFX Nexus 1.4.1 (under bitbridge) and then attempted to create a VV clip Sonar threw an error about Cronus.dll and shut itself down.......
OUCH!! I have used Nexus in everything I've done for the last few years!! It is a goto synth of mine. (and wasn't cheap - I never upgraded to Nexus2 because v2 uses the Cubase licensing dongle) :-(
GUTTED
I have a crash dump........what should i do with it?
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JClosed
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 17:26:28
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Ah mudgel - I did not know it V-Vocal was a DX plugin. Sorry about that.
And Twigman ... It is not easy to make a decision here. Too bad your version of ReFX Nexus is a old one. It is possible the sofware designers from Cakewalk only tested bitbridge with the latest version. I am afraid the Nexus designers will tell you to upgrade, because they could have stopped supporting older versions - but you can always try...
I really don't know if the software designers from Cackewalk can help you here. For them Nexus is a "black box" (they have no idea of the exact inner workings - they can only guess), and getting it to work can be a trial and error show. But also - you can always try to fill in a bug report..
Another possibility is to try the demo version of Jbridge. If Nexus works with that, it is a relatively inexpensive solution.
Sorry - that's all the help I can give at this moment...
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Jind
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 19:42:41
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Twigman
Ok so it was a plug under Bitbridge that seemed to cause the V-Vocal crash.
I unfroze all the x64 plugs first and after unfreezing each one created a VV clip...no problemo.
As soon as I unfroze the first (of7) instance of ReFX Nexus 1.4.1 (under bitbridge) and then attempted to create a VV clip Sonar threw an error about Cronus.dll and shut itself down.......
OUCH!! I have used Nexus in everything I've done for the last few years!! It is a goto synth of mine. (and wasn't cheap - I never upgraded to Nexus2 because v2 uses the Cubase licensing dongle) :-(
GUTTED
I have a crash dump........what should i do with it?
ReFX Nexus I took a look at the ReFX site and noticed that they tested their plugins with Cubase's implementation of BitBridge, but not Sonar, they note that Sonar has BitBridge capabilities, but only list Cubase as a tested environment. "The OS isn't really part of the equation. It solely depends on your host.
1) If your host is 32bit (yes, you can run 32bit programs in a 64bit OS) then all 32bit plug-ins will work fine.
2) If your host is 64bit then 32bit plug-ins will work if the host-vendor implemented a bit-bridge. Currently Cubase 4/5 and Sonar 5-8 provide bit-bridges. We've tested with Cubase 4.5 and Cubase 5 and had no problems whatsoever." It would be interesting to see if it works with JBridge in Sonar.
Jind Sonar X2 PE, Cakewalk V Studio 100; Intel i7 w/ 16 GB Ram, MS Windows 8.1
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bitflipper
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 20:18:20
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I'd try to whittle the project down to the bare minimum needed to demonstrate the problem and send it to CW.
Unless it's the plugin itself that's raising the error, there might be a possible fix. It sounds like it's cronus.dll that's actually raising the error, so IF they determine what's happening and IF they decide to ever work on V-Vocal again, there could be a fix. You'll never know till you send it in.
It's also possible that it's neither SONARPDR.EXE nor the plugin that's to blame, but a third party library, namely the infamous C++ runtime. If that's the case, CW may determine that a newer version of the C++ library cures the problem.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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LpMike75
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/02 20:54:01
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Bit -
Sending Cakewalk projects to disect seems like a great idea but from experience in this matter, cooresponding with tech support is a mess. You have to send them a project (after they ask for it) then offer your text related to the project in a seperate tech support 'ticket'. You can only hope that they put the text and the project together in some magical way to understand the problem.
Oh Cakewalk why must you be so difficult to talk to?
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alexniedt
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/03 05:34:33
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I'm still using 8.5, as this message board makes upgrading to X1 sound like a horrible idea, but I actually just logged into because Sonar is crashing every time I try to create a V-Vocal clip. I'm getting more and more annoyed at Sonar lately without even upgrading to X1. They need to make everything work well before trying to release new products.
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bitflipper
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Re:V-Vocal even more broken in X1 than 8.5.3
2011/01/03 11:10:11
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Bit - Sending Cakewalk projects to disect seems like a great idea but from experience in this matter, cooresponding with tech support is a mess. Sometimes, that's sadly true. But not always, so it's worth a shot.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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