bsteven

Fortunately, after years of trying to describe the problem to you and after combing through the support pages and user forums looking for a solution, someone noted that the key to avoiding the problem with lyric and staff view is to ensure that that the track containing lyrics, chord charts, and notes remains one single clip. (The problem occurs when you allow the multiple clips that might naturally occur after a long instrumental or when you copy and paste sections of a song. This often results in a lyrical and notation disaster that often forces you to wipe the track and start again).

 

I'm wondering if this fix listed in the X1b update also fixes what I describe above.

Fixed an issue with "Bounce to Clip" on MIDI Tracks with Lyric events.

 

Sepheritoh


You waste your time and breath talking to Cakewalk about this issue. We've been asking since Sonar 1 and they acklowledged the problem, but never do anything. Pretty screens and hip-hop beats have a larger marketability than serious scoring.

If anyone doubts that then have a look at Cubase's scoring - it's amazing what they have available. Meanwhile we get docking windows and media browsers.

On the subject of Sibelius, why can't Cakewalk license it and add some hooks to embed it into the codebase relatively deeply and sell a "Sonar X2 Producer Scoring Edition" for $100 more than the regular PE?

The <10% (-ish) of the user base that REALLY care can have their Cake and eat it to and the rest of the 90% don't have to pay for redundant features they will never use...

Q.

UnderTow


John & John the Fanboyant Duo!

Soon on a forum near you!

Guaranteed to miss the point and disrupt legitimate complaint threads!

Bring all your insecure friends and help defend your purchase decision!

Why be critical when you can be a Fanboy instead?

Bring your torches and let's flame those discriminating users!

UnderTow

I have nothing against better notation. I have been a champion of a better Staff view for years now. What I objected to was the use of "toy" in describing Sonar.

Clearly you have not been up to date with how many of us have tried to get CW to improve notation.  But if you are interested here is a thread I started in the old Sonar forum not that very long ago.

I've been a heavy user of Staff View for years and worked as a copyist and arranger in the pen and paper days so I know it's shortcomings (tuplets etc) but I really wish they would scrap this irrelevant stuff like lyrics and chord symbols and expression marks which add nothing to the musical output and are only relevant if you print parts out.   Staff View is a tool for inputting musical material in the form of notation.  It's not for printing out music in the form of scores or parts or lead sheets with lyrics and chord symbols or whatever.  Go get Finale or Sibelius or whatever if you want to do that.    It's holding back the development of the Staff View function when the developers feel they are being pressed to cater for this stuff which is really the job of a different kind of application.  Sonar is a tool for creating music, and some of us like to use notation as one way of doing that  – stuff like lyrics, chord symbols and expression marks play no part in producing the music.  They are purely descriptive and could and should be done elsewhere.

X1 has seen a backward move in Staff View in terms of inputting notes quickly – that aspect of it has become slower than in 8.5.3 with at the same time more emphasis on the useless stuff like lyrics and expression marks listed above.    This worries me as I like using Sonar and I feel Cakewalk are being pressed to provide these inappropriate features and naturally they are reluctant because it’s almost like tacking on a whole other application.  I’d like to see Cakewalk state once and for all that they will not be catering for printable notation, but will continue to maintain (even develop) Staff View as a tool for inputting musical data. 

Interesting thing about this whole debate is the fact that those who do not want good staff view is so passionate about it. If you do not want it, get the heck out of the debate about it and let those who do want it continue in peace.

Just because I do not use beatscape does not mean that I will debate for hours how cakewalk should not have it an waste time writing the stuff.

This forum is full of people who keep on telling us that if we want a feature we should go use another competitor's product. I wonder if Cakewalk's acceptance of that behavior on the forum indicates some sort of agreement. This must be the only product in the world who think it can survive in a competitive environment by telling people to use the competitor's product!

Just accept that there are people who do want proper scoring. Most of the real professionals who score for film has given up on Sonar long time ago.

Combo


I've been a heavy user of Staff View for years and worked as a copyist and arranger in the pen and paper days so I know it's shortcomings (tuplets etc) but I really wish they would scrap this irrelevant stuff like lyrics and chord symbols and expression marks which add nothing to the musical output and are only relevant if you print parts out.   Staff View is a tool for inputting musical material in the form of notation.  It's not for printing out music in the form of scores or parts or lead sheets with lyrics and chord symbols or whatever.  Go get Finale or Sibelius or whatever if you want to do that.    It's holding back the development of the Staff View function when the developers feel they are being pressed to cater for this stuff which is really the job of a different kind of application.  Sonar is a tool for creating music, and some of us like to use notation as one way of doing that  – stuff like lyrics, chord symbols and expression marks play no part in producing the music.  They are purely descriptive and could and should be done elsewhere.

You could not be more wrong.  Staff View serves more than one purpose.  Lead sheets are important and require lyrics and chords.  I personally don't use lyrics but I don't assume that no one needs them.  Chord symbols are important too.  I do orchestral scoring as well as song writing.  I need it all.  I have Sibelius and still need theses features.  You appear quite ignorant of DAW notation in general and seem to believe that Cakewalk should only implement features that you personally use.

Just a bit of an observation from a guy who "doesn't use or need the staff view for notation."
The OP may be right in a way -  Sonar's implementation  of notation is surely lacking - but do they advertize Sonar as a "Notation" tool? 
The staff view is a midi locked area in a tool that has been increasingly growing its ability to do audio well. Midi notation might be going bye-bye.
Maybe (only maybe) Sonar is moving to a place where audio recording and arranging is its future.
Good or bad - Notation doesn't need quad cores.

Brian

Combo

Here we go again.  Get a friend to read this to you and explain the hard parts.  You don't need the lyric function in Sonar to produce music or write songs in Sonar.   If you need to see those lyrics on a sheet of written music, take the music you have written in Sonar and reproduce it in a package designed for that purpose, and, if you want, add in the lyrics - easy. 

There's nothing difficult about understanding this, it's simply that you're wrong. You are so arrogant that you think you know how music should be written. Who the hell do you think you are to tell others what they need or not? Arrogance and ignorance is such a delightful combination.

Lyrics and melody are simply not separable. I am often given lyrics which I have to set to music; I dump them into the the lyrics view and start adding notes to them. Knowing the prosody (rhythm of words) is absolutely essential. If you think otherwise you probably write shìt songs or just stick to common meter. Or on the other hand you might be some sort of artistic genius.

 And I'm not interested in your pedantic point about publishing.  I don't mean publishing, I actually meant printing out with the intention of getting properly notated sheet music (with or without lyrics).  Is that clear enough?

Probably not. If you write a book you'd probably use a word processor like Microsoft Word. You might well print it out to proof read it or to get others to read it. Publishing is the act of turning your manuscript into a book. Printing out the score from Sonar is printing, using Sibelius or Finale is publishing.


It's nice for you to be worried about Cakewalk being stressed about calls for new functionality but why you think existing functions should be taken out is bizarre.

Just caught up on some of these 'notation' related treads. Just wanted to share my personal experience and sympathy on the subject.
 
Leaving semantics aside but still trying to align with the aforementioned notions, my reality is that I've had to resort to a PUBLISHING tool (Finale) to try to COMPOSE music, which is the reason why I've been using Sonar/Cakewalk since Cakewalk 3.0. Every Sonar update I've gone through over the years I keep praying for notation view to at least receive a tiny dose of love, yet nothing. Right now, notation on X1 I think is at the bottom of the barrel, not sure it could get any worse. I spent 30 min yesterday giving it a second try, thinking that perhaps I missed something back in December. Nope. It took about 10min on Sonar to accomplish a 2min relatively simple writing job on Finale. Reason why I thought I needed to check the Forum.
 
I think X1, even with the numerous bugs, has been a good step forward in many fronts. Notation is, no doubt about it, the most outdated/frustrating areas where Sonar is far behind competition.
 
Music XML would be a fantastic workaround, if that's the strategic direction Cakewalk wants to follow, may not even take long to implement...
 
Hope this is finally heard.

Gusfmm


Just caught up on some of these 'notation' related treads. Just wanted to share my personal experience and sympathy on the subject.
 
Leaving semantics aside but still trying to align with the aforementioned notions, my reality is that I've had to resort to a PUBLISHING tool (Finale) to try to COMPOSE music, which is the reason why I've been using Sonar/Cakewalk since Cakewalk 3.0. Every Sonar update I've gone through over the years I keep praying for notation view to at least receive a tiny dose of love, yet nothing. Right now, notation on X1 I think is at the bottom of the barrel, not sure it could get any worse. I spent 30 min yesterday giving it a second try, thinking that perhaps I missed something back in December. Nope. It took about 10min on Sonar to accomplish a 2min relatively simple writing job on Finale. Reason why I thought I needed to check the Forum.
 
I think X1, even with the numerous bugs, has been a good step forward in many fronts. Notation is, no doubt about it, the most outdated/frustrating areas where Sonar is far behind competition.
 
Music XML would be a fantastic workaround, if that's the strategic direction Cakewalk wants to follow, may not even take long to implement...
 
Hope this is finally heard.

Give it up.  It's not going to happen.  I've been waiting for 15 years.  It's all about bells and whistles.  They don't update what they have, they just add more candy to  attract semi pro users.  Why do you think Sonar costs less than its competition?  They lowered their price to appeal to the home user.  Professional tools like notation, and video are dead in Sonar.