any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???

Page: < 12 Showing page 2 of 2
Author
Post
Essentials Only Full Version
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13146
  • Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
  • Status: offline
Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording??? 2011/03/31 13:49:22 (permalink)
AT


Chucke,

let me get this straight.  You want to saturate your preamp to get a tone to send to your convertor (Saffire).  Then you want to send that to SONAR to further manipulate in GR w/in SONAR.

The problem is with the IC transformerless preamp in the Saffire.  It doesn't get the tone you want w/o overdriving your convertor. 

Solution - a transformer designed preamp/DI before the input on the Saffire.  IC's, well cheap ones, anyway, like in most interfaces, don't saturate.  They distort, in an unpleasant way.  So you need to spend some money for a preamp/DI to get the reaquesit tone before the Saffire.  The Gap Preamp ($300) or a Focurite ISA One ($500) will do the trick.  The Gap esp. will allow you to manipulate the tone by using the input and output to drive the sound, and that will go easily into the Saffire.  Or for less money get either a Radial DI (or something similiar) or the EHY tube preamp - around ($200).  An Art MP is only $50, and may give you the tone you want, tho it uses a starved plate and is more "fluffy".  It is great on bass, tho.  Any of these will give you a tone which the Saffire can easily handle.
 
Or do it the old fashioned way and use an amp and mic (Shure 57 - $100) directly into the Saffire.

Right now you are trying to use a screwdriver to hammer a nail.

@
at..thanks for the reply man..but im not sure you understand what im talking about..no where did i write saturate(dont know where your getting that from)but..imagine this...let me use an example here..say the interface is a pre amp..i plug my guitar into the pre amp..the pre amp goes up to ten on the gain control..i turn it up to one..only one..now  i plug that into a pa(just as an example)..im going to have to crank that pa to get a decent level..am i right??..no what do you think thats going to do to my signal???...add hiss??..weak??well yes.
same concept..lets put it this way..if i turn my interface up to where it should be.around 5-6 1/2..its sounds awesome..great !!!..only problem is..sonars clipping out..understand??
@barczar-i did try another project,,been going on for some time now..i apreciate all your help..i just got a di from my sound tech..going to try it right now..thank you to everyone here..im sorry if i sound frustrated.and dont seem like im taking your help for granted..i dont..without you guys id be running in circles here..thank you.
 
i did find this link on this morning on the saffire...which describes my problem in detail...not goood..guess im not alone.
 
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/equipment/657673-focusrite-saffire-6-usb-distortion.html

 

Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
   
#31
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 50621
  • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
  • Location: Fort Worth, TX
  • Status: offline
Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording??? 2011/03/31 14:15:40 (permalink)
same concept..lets put it this way..if i turn my interface up to where it should be.around 5-6 1/2..its sounds awesome..great !!!..only problem is..sonars clipping out..understand??

charlie - it's not sonar that's clipping.  sonar only reports what signal is being sent to it from the soundcard after it's been converted to digital.  (which is exactly the same thing I've said a couple of times re:  sonar not being able to control the input.  it can't.  it's not possible.) 

if the signal's clipping then it's the soundcard that's doing it.  if you can't get the signal you want without clipping then you'll have to either change soundcards, or use a different preamp and go line input to the soundcard (which might still not work in the case you're describing).

http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
#32
UnderTow
Max Output Level: -37 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3848
  • Joined: 2004/01/06 12:13:49
  • Status: offline
Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording??? 2011/03/31 15:28:02 (permalink)
Charlie, if you described things correctly, what you are requesting is simply not possible. This has nothing to do with any Sonar shortcomings. This is just the way all DAWs and audio interfaces work. Also the DI box probably won't help because you are getting a hot enough signal already.

I am again going to suggest that you set up your levels so that "Sonar" is not clipping (It is actually the converters in your Saffire and not Sonar that is clipping) and then, and only then, insert GR into the FX bin and turn up the input of Guitar Rig and turn down the output of Guitar Rig with these controls:





UnderTow
#33
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13146
  • Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
  • Status: offline
Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording??? 2011/03/31 16:15:19 (permalink)
UnderTow


Charlie, if you described things correctly, what you are requesting is simply not possible. This has nothing to do with any Sonar shortcomings. This is just the way all DAWs and audio interfaces work. Also the DI box probably won't help because you are getting a hot enough signal already.

I am again going to suggest that you set up your levels so that "Sonar" is not clipping (It is actually the converters in your Saffire and not Sonar that is clipping) and then, and only then, insert GR into the FX bin and turn up the input of Guitar Rig and turn down the output of Guitar Rig with these controls:





UnderTow
thanks undertow,.this did help out a little bit.and totaly understand this has nothing to do with sonar.
im going to have to live with it for right now theres nothing much i can do.
did like you said.turned on input echo-armed the track,set my level(could only turn my interface up to about 2.with the pad ingaged to -10d.b.(on my interface)then inserted gr.then turned up the input level on gr. balanced the out put and like i said it was a little better.
its a flaw in the design of this interface.i may also have a faulty unit.seems like input 2 on my interface is cracking and poping.tryed new cords,have the latest drivers.ive contacted tech support and hopefully i will have a good answer.once i read that link i supplied i realized it wasnt just me..theres a lot of P.O.'d people right now.(and that link isnt ten years old either..lol)again,thank you very much.i'll let you know what tech support says.
 
barczar,thank you too man.i appreciate all your help

Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
   
#34
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13146
  • Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
  • Status: offline
Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording??? 2011/03/31 16:24:02 (permalink)
Beagle



same concept..lets put it this way..if i turn my interface up to where it should be.around 5-6 1/2..its sounds awesome..great !!!..only problem is..sonars clipping out..understand??

charlie - it's not sonar that's clipping.  sonar only reports what signal is being sent to it from the soundcard after it's been converted to digital.  (which is exactly the same thing I've said a couple of times re:  sonar not being able to control the input.  it can't.  it's not possible.) 

if the signal's clipping then it's the soundcard that's doing it.  if you can't get the signal you want without clipping then you'll have to either change soundcards, or use a different preamp and go line input to the soundcard (which might still not work in the case you're describing).


beagle..what should i say??my interface isnt clipping..im well aware this is not the fault of sonar..as a guide trying to make people understand i was saying.sonars input level was clipping..an example if you will..maybe i should have said..my input signal in sonar is making a pop noise and the bar is up over the red thing on my meter..im sorry..i was just trying to explain it the best i could..i wasnt refering to sonars not doing its job properly or anything..i just dont have the answers beag..so sonar isnt clipping..i just have a real load signal comming from my interface(my interface isnt clipping either..its not even close to the red)so im out of answers.i dont know how else to explain it.please dont take this post the wrong way.sometimes when we write a post it seems as if someones is being sarcastic...im not beagle.i just dont have the answers man.sorry.

Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
   
#35
UnderTow
Max Output Level: -37 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3848
  • Joined: 2004/01/06 12:13:49
  • Status: offline
Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording??? 2011/03/31 16:39:22 (permalink)
chuckebaby

my input signal in sonar is making a pop noise and the bar is up over the red thing on my meter...
i just have a real load signal comming from my interface(my interface isnt clipping either..its not even close to the red)
If I am reading this right then indeed it seems that there might be something wrong with your interface. The front clip indicator should at least be close level wise to the max level in Sonar. If it isn't then either it is badly designed or broken...

Anyway, good luck with resolving this!

UnderTow


#36
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10654
  • Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
  • Location: TeXaS
  • Status: offline
Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording??? 2011/03/31 17:36:51 (permalink)
Chucke,

The fault may lay in the interface being broken as UnderTow says.  I'm not familiar with the Saffire but most one-piece interfaces have one or more preamp/line combos for an input(s), with one or two that can be switched to a proper DI.  You should be using the DI input if you are plugging a guitar into it. You could have a bad cable (you've checked that, right?). 

Guitar>cable>DI input on the interface.  If you are not getting a proper signal coming into the interface, you have to track it back.  If those aren't at fault, the next step is your interface.  Inside the interface it is preamp/DI input>convertor>mixer to SONAR via USB (?).  If SONAR is recieving a bad signal (either too much or not enough) you have to trace it back from there.  Saffire should have a software mixer where you can may be able to set the input volume and, more importantly, the output.  This is probably different than the front panel knobs, which are most likely analog for the input.  W/O the schematics it is hard to tell, but that is likely.

So, if you have done all this:  check your cable, check to make sure you are using a DI input and not a preamp/line and checked your software mixer, then most likely your interface is broken.  Try a mic, try a line and try another guitar to see if those work correctly before taking it back.  Overloading an input is most often gainstaging
and with analog/digtial it gets confusing.
@

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#37
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 50621
  • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
  • Location: Fort Worth, TX
  • Status: offline
Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording??? 2011/03/31 21:27:17 (permalink)
chuckebaby


Beagle



same concept..lets put it this way..if i turn my interface up to where it should be.around 5-6 1/2..its sounds awesome..great !!!..only problem is..sonars clipping out..understand??

charlie - it's not sonar that's clipping.  sonar only reports what signal is being sent to it from the soundcard after it's been converted to digital.  (which is exactly the same thing I've said a couple of times re:  sonar not being able to control the input.  it can't.  it's not possible.) 

if the signal's clipping then it's the soundcard that's doing it.  if you can't get the signal you want without clipping then you'll have to either change soundcards, or use a different preamp and go line input to the soundcard (which might still not work in the case you're describing).


beagle..what should i say??my interface isnt clipping..im well aware this is not the fault of sonar..as a guide trying to make people understand i was saying.sonars input level was clipping..an example if you will..maybe i should have said..my input signal in sonar is making a pop noise and the bar is up over the red thing on my meter..im sorry..i was just trying to explain it the best i could..i wasnt refering to sonars not doing its job properly or anything..i just dont have the answers beag..so sonar isnt clipping..i just have a real load signal comming from my interface(my interface isnt clipping either..its not even close to the red)so im out of answers.i dont know how else to explain it.please dont take this post the wrong way.sometimes when we write a post it seems as if someones is being sarcastic...im not beagle.i just dont have the answers man.sorry.

no, there's no offense taken, I just wasn't sure you were understanding what I and others were saying.
 
I think that if your interface is not showing that it is clipping, but recording on a track in sonar shows and sounds like it is clipping then either your interface is bad or it's not reporting the levels correctly on it's meters.
 
when you record the track and you hear popping and the meters are red - do you SEE clipping on the recorded track?  can you post a screen shot of it?

http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
#38
mrberrie
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 42
  • Joined: 2006/07/05 22:16:32
  • Status: offline
Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording??? 2011/03/31 23:20:26 (permalink)
Yo Chuckibaby check the back of your mixer to see if you have a -4 +10 switch.  If you can't get your signal hot enough you may need to flip the switch.  However, b4 you flip it turn the volume all the way down then slowly back up cause it can get loud.  Watch the volumn on your Sonar too make sure you turn it all the way down also.  Hope this works.

SONG WRITER
Dell I7 Laptop 6GB Ram 
Sonar X1b Producer
Windows 7 64bit
Cakewalk VSTi
http://www.myspace.com/uome2/music/songs
#39
quibb
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 308
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 15:42:52
  • Location: Utah
  • Status: offline
Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording??? 2011/04/01 00:21:01 (permalink)
Hey Charlie,
 
Just one quick thought. I just upgraded this week and it appears I had a similar problem with Guitar Rig. Turned out I it was a routing issue. I hate to admit it, but I hadn't assigned input in Guitar Rig to the correct outputs of my Focusrite Pro40. You have to go into the settings in the amp sim software itself. That's what it sounds like to me...
 
At the time, I also felt like I couldn't get a hot enough signal, but turns out the weak signal I was monitorring was actually my microphone picking up my guitar. Doh! Luckily, I picked up on it pretty quick.  :)
 
Vernon

I7, 8GB, Win 7 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, R11 driver, Focusrite Pro40, Helios II fly rod


#40
quibb
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 308
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 15:42:52
  • Location: Utah
  • Status: offline
Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording??? 2011/04/01 00:34:11 (permalink)
Also... make sure that you have upgraded to the latest version of Guitar Rig. I couldn't even get my presets to come up until I applied the update. Cakewalk sent the website out with their last email. Here it is:
 
https://www.native-instruments.com/?id=updates
 
Sorry if this has already been covered. I didn't have time to read the whole thread.
 
V

I7, 8GB, Win 7 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, R11 driver, Focusrite Pro40, Helios II fly rod


#41
Page: < 12 Showing page 2 of 2
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1