Kroneborge
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/13 16:29:02
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Legion
Well you haven't blamed the swedes, or USA turning into Sweden, yet...
This is kinda funny if you haven't already seen it http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-april-21-2009/the-stockholm-syndrome-pt--1 and http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-april-22-2009/the-stockholm-syndrome-pt--2
With that I have to ad that the show is a few years old and lots have changed since then (better for the havs, worse for the have-nots). But I guess that's what politics is all about, to give to someone you have to take from someone else.
Which is what I normally try to avoid. Aside from a basic safety net, I don't think the government should be in the business of deciding who gets what. Besides the fact that it's wrong, in practice it usually just means they take from those who earned, and give to their friends.
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dlogan
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/13 16:40:01
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It's nice to see the well thought out opinions expressed here. "In theory", various systems would work fine; the problem is those systems are run by people who are naturally flawed.
I'm not sure there's such thing as a perfect tax structure - corporations vs. people; rich vs. poor, etc - what's the right balance? One thing that drives me nuts though because I've seen it in practice is all of the tax loop holes (offshore accounts, etc). The old owner of my company was a multimillionaire and hardly paid any taxes at all because because things were structured to flow through her captive in the Cayman Islands.
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craigb
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/13 16:55:47
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Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Kroneborge
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/13 18:20:49
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dlogan
It's nice to see the well thought out opinions expressed here. "In theory", various systems would work fine; the problem is those systems are run by people who are naturally flawed.
I'm not sure there's such thing as a perfect tax structure - corporations vs. people; rich vs. poor, etc - what's the right balance? One thing that drives me nuts though because I've seen it in practice is all of the tax loop holes (offshore accounts, etc). The old owner of my company was a multimillionaire and hardly paid any taxes at all because because things were structured to flow through her captive in the Cayman Islands.
Agreed. That's why I'm such a strong supporter of the Fair Tax (even though, it will probably cost me mone if it ever gets implemented). I don't think people should need to hire a CPA out at $200 an hour to do taxes. Or that companies should have to spend millions on tax compliance. And most of all, I don't think that the tax code should be written to allow the connected to get perks while other pay more. Going to a simple consumption tax would get rid of all the loop holes, and double dealing. If you buy a good or service, you pay some tax on it. If you want to pay less tax, do it yourself. Note a side benefit would be that all those trilliosn sitting off shore would come home. IMHO, this would generate a lot of jobs.
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ricstudioc
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/13 20:48:00
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Agreed. That's why I'm such a strong supporter of the Fair Tax (even though, it will probably cost me mone if it ever gets implemented). I don't think people should need to hire a CPA out at $200 an hour to do taxes. Or that companies should have to spend millions on tax compliance. And most of all, I don't think that the tax code should be written to allow the connected to get perks while other pay more. Going to a simple consumption tax would get rid of all the loop holes, and double dealing. If you buy a good or service, you pay some tax on it. If you want to pay less tax, do it yourself. Note a side benefit would be that all those trilliosn sitting off shore would come home. IMHO, this would generate a lot of jobs. With ya there - although I've always thought that a modest flat income tax (10%?) coupled with a national sales tax would be the ticket. Keep the income tax low, and simple - and the consumption tax would pretty much even out the "rich/poor" conflict. You want to spend $40,000 on an umbrella stand - hey, go for it. People driving Bentleys would pay the tax on a Bentley - folks buying a used Cutlass would pay used-Cutlass tax. Seems like it would even things out fairly well. O'course, I'm poor - what do I know?
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Kroneborge
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/13 21:32:35
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If I remember right, the Fair Tax doesn't even tax used goods. So as long as you kept buying used, you could save a LOT of money.
Also, it untaxes everyone up to the poverty line to ensure that you don't pay taxes on the basics.
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Legion
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 03:08:08
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"In theory", various systems would work fine; the problem is those systems are run by people who are naturally flawed.
+1000 and to infinity! As soon as politicians are involved in politics everything seem to go downhill 
post edited by Legion - 2011/04/14 03:15:05
Sadly very reduced studio equipment as it is... ASUS G750J, 8 gb RAM, Win8, Roland Quad Capture.
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dlogan
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 12:28:23
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Legion
"In theory", various systems would work fine; the problem is those systems are run by people who are naturally flawed.
+1000 and to infinity! As soon as politicians are involved in politics everything seem to go downhill
Well once the robots and/or aliens take over, everything should be fine.
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Jonbouy
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 13:38:10
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Being from a former colonial Empire, which unlike the US, plundered much of it's wealth from foreign lands it still wasn't outside forces that led to Britain becoming less great. It was the common enemy of every powerful civilization since Greek times, that led to it's demise. That enemy is the one within that demands elevated status and priviledge because of it's reputation. That enemy is fuelled by greed, complacency, decadence and a grandiose sense of entitlement among other things. Britain's demise as a world power due to it's dependence on foriegn lands was irreverseable, America is in comparitively good shape really, providing it is able to connect with the pioneering spirit that made it great in the first place, it's big enough to sustain itself and still generate massive wealth, and has the people capable of producing a massive turnaround of fortunes. It needs to find that 'can do' attitude that fuels much of the growth currently in China rather than the defeatism and bi-party bickering among itself that just rips the nation apart in regular swings between republican and democrat despite a Civil war that ended nearly two centuries ago. Personally, I'd certainly feel safer in this world with a truly strong and prosperous America. The thing about a good democracy is when you blame the government the finger should be pointing back at you, and economics should become part of a strong govenment policy, not an unruly machination that drives governments which is where most of 'western' civilization has recently come unstuck so badly.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/04/14 13:53:57
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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jamesg1213
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 13:58:28
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Jonbouy
it still wasn't outside forces that led to Britain becoming less great.
Arguably, it was. Britain bankrupted itself fighting WWII. The US emerged from the conflict much richer than any other nation involved and had a 'golden age' and baby boom through the '50's. The cost of fighting that war brought Britain to it's knees, and we never recovered. Still managed to get the NHS underway though.
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marcos69
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 13:59:08
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I'm ready for Texas to secede from the US. We have everything we need to be independent - industry, agriculture, oil, NASA, deep water ports, cattle...
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Jonbouy
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 14:22:36
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jamesg1213
Jonbouy
it still wasn't outside forces that led to Britain becoming less great.
Arguably, it was. Britain bankrupted itself fighting WWII. The US emerged from the conflict much richer than any other nation involved and had a 'golden age' and baby boom through the '50's. The cost of fighting that war brought Britain to it's knees, and we never recovered. Still managed to get the NHS underway though.
As far as Empire goes WWII just brought the inevitable forward. I do know our venerable allies that like to lull themselves with the nice idea they 'pulled our fat from the fire' were still screwing us with interest for 'lease / lend' repayments until comparitively recently though...
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Kroneborge
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 14:39:02
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marcos69
I'm ready for Texas to secede from the US. We have everything we need to be independent - industry, agriculture, oil, NASA, deep water ports, cattle...
It's so hot there though.
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zungle
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 14:40:01
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I'm ready for Texas to secede from the US. We have everything we need to be independent - industry, agriculture, oil, NASA, deep water ports, cattle.. When you do I'm heading your way................ 
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bapu
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 14:40:21
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marcos69
I'm ready for Texas to secede from the US. We have everything we need to be independent - industry, agriculture, oil, NASA, deep water ports, cattle...
You got a Bapu there too?
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tom1
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 14:58:24
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Jonbouy:
Personally, I'd certainly feel safer in this world with a truly strong and prosperous America.
I imagine it depends on what side of the fence your standing on. :)
From my seat I see a U.S. foreign policy (from the end of WWII to the present) that seems to crave a constant state of tension around the globe;
What better way to justify an enormous defense budget then to have perpetual discord?
Sonar Producer X2/ProTools/Cubase/Reaper Studio Cat 32 Gig Ram East West: Hollywood Strings/Brass/Woodwinds/Goliath Kontakt Ultimate / FabFilter Bundle / EaReverb / Maag4 / Izotope Ozone 5 / Izotope RX2 / Elastique / Waves
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Jonbouy
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 15:20:33
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tom1
Jonbouy:
Personally, I'd certainly feel safer in this world with a truly strong and prosperous America.
I imagine it depends on what side of the fence your standing on. :)
From my seat I see a U.S. foreign policy (from the end of WWII to the present) that seems to crave a constant state of tension around the globe;
What better way to justify an enormous defense budget then to have perpetual discord?
Yes it does depend on the side of the fence you are on, which for me is the side that allows me to express an opinion either way. Did that last sentence come from Orwell directly or did you make it up yourself...? So America has a tendency to scare the crap out of itself and then beat up it's own dark shadows that it casts on the wall, but hey who among us here has never done that?
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/04/14 15:28:03
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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marcos69
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 15:37:23
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bapu
marcos69
I'm ready for Texas to secede from the US. We have everything we need to be independent - industry, agriculture, oil, NASA, deep water ports, cattle...
You got a Bapu there too?
No! It's awesome!
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bapu
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 16:13:39
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marcos69
bapu
marcos69
I'm ready for Texas to secede from the US. We have everything we need to be independent - industry, agriculture, oil, NASA, deep water ports, cattle...
You got a Bapu there too?
No! It's awesome!
The anticipation of having your own Bapu? That I can understand.
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tom1
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 16:18:27
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Jonbouy:
Did that last sentence come from Orwell directly or did you make it up yourself...?
I wasn't sure where I got it.
Orwell, Mao Tse Tung, CIA handbook.
They all play with the semantics but basically say the same thing :)
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Randy P
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 17:06:36
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One of my best friends for over 20 years works for a large defense contractor. He's a former military officer and has seen the world through much different eyes than mine. We don't agree on many things when it comes to politics, but we have great discussions about the subject. The following is something he said to me once during one of those conversations. Again, this was him talking.
"The world is like a small nieghborood in a small town. The U.S. is the richest family on the block, and we keep an eye on things for the sake of the nieghborood. We like to believe we are good nieghbors, and we like our nieghbors to be friendly to each other and to us. If one of our nieghbors has a family leader that is abusive to his family or his nieghbors, we are the ones who will warn him to knock it off. If he doesn't heed the warning, we are the ones who will go into his house, kick his ass out and hang around until a friendlier guy comes in to take care of the family. If a family needs a loan to fix up the house, we give it. If the family can't feed itself, we feed it. We don't ask for much in return, but sometimes we ask for help with things around the nieghborhood and we appreciate the help and we don't forget it."
Jonbouys comment made me think about this conversation. My friend is a much smarter man than I am about certain things. I'd like to think he's right about much of this. If he is, I hope we can maintain our standing in the nieghborhood for the good of the whole block.
Randy
http://www.soundclick.com/riprorenband
The music biz is a cruel and shallow money trench,a plastic hallway where thieves & pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
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bapu
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 17:09:59
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rsp@odyssey.net
One of my best friends for over 20 years works for a large defense contractor. He's a former military officer and has seen the world through much different eyes than mine. We don't agree on many things when it comes to politics, but we have great discussions about the subject. The following is something he said to me once during one of those conversations. Again, this was him talking.
"The world is like a small nieghborood in a small town. The U.S. is the richest family on the block, and we keep an eye on things for the sake of the nieghborood. We like to believe we are good nieghbors, and we like our nieghbors to be friendly to each other and to us. If one of our nieghbors has a family leader that is abusive to his family or his nieghbors, we are the ones who will warn him to knock it off. If he doesn't heed the warning, we are the ones who will go into his house, kick his ass out and hang around until a friendlier guy comes in to take care of the family. If a family needs a loan to fix up the house, we give it. If the family can't feed itself, we feed it. We don't ask for much in return, but sometimes we ask for help with things around the nieghborhood and we appreciate the help and we don't forget it."
Jonbouys comment made me think about this conversation. My friend is a much smarter man than I am about certain things. I'd like to think he's right about much of this. If he is, I hope we can maintain our standing in the nieghborhood for the good of the whole block.
Randy
Let's hope your friends analogy is right, and it would behoove our leaders (present and future) to remember and uphold those principals.
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craigb
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 17:38:09
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Can I use that paragraph to prove that our politicians really are block heads?
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Randy P
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 18:16:06
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craigb
Can I use that paragraph to prove that our politicians really are block heads?
Probably goes without saying there Craig. Randy
http://www.soundclick.com/riprorenband
The music biz is a cruel and shallow money trench,a plastic hallway where thieves & pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
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Kroneborge
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Re:I renounce my faith ...
2011/04/14 20:43:17
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tom1
Jonbouy:
Personally, I'd certainly feel safer in this world with a truly strong and prosperous America.
I imagine it depends on what side of the fence your standing on. :)
From my seat I see a U.S. foreign policy (from the end of WWII to the present) that seems to crave a constant state of tension around the globe;
What better way to justify an enormous defense budget then to have perpetual discord?
Do you really think America needs to do anything to keep constant tension throughout the globe? Look at our last 6000 years of history. War is the normal state, peace abnormal. Cause no matter how nice most people are, there are plenty of others that 1. Like power just for the sake of it, and like telling other people what to do (ie taking their freedom 2. Don't want to work hard for their own stuff, and so try and take other people's stuff (either through force or the ballot box)
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