Acoustic guitar questions...

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Beagle
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 10:26:33 (permalink)
ok, great info, Michael!

gee thanks baps.  I know I could never measure up to you anyway!!!

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Guitarhacker
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 10:35:10 (permalink)
spacey


Beagle


spacey


Here is one I sure like...

Yeah, a bad note is not good Mike and I also don't care much
for out of tune or one that is obviously out of adjustment. That's buzzin
that I would comment about.

that was an AMAZING performance!  thanks for sharing that Mike.
 
but technically that wasn't an "acoustic," right? - or am I being overly pedantic?  do guitarists not normally distinguish "acoustic" to be steel string? 
 
I guess the shape of that one is not a traditional "classical" so it would be more appropriately termed "nylon string" since it's also not "Spanish" or "flameco"
 
again - I'm not a real guitarist, so maybe I'm being overly picky.
You're not being overly anything Reece. You have a very good question and there may be many that
would answer differently or better but I'll give mine-
"Acoustic" guitar tells me that it is a hollow body. There are classifications that fall under "acoustic" such as
nylon, electric acoustic (which is what he is playing in the video) etc...
Now there are even electric guitars that simulate the acoustic guitar sound. So I would think that in technical
terms "acoustic" refers to guitars that have a chambered body sound.
I'm no expert about it but my thinking is such that when one mentions, as you have, "flameco"- Acoustic guitar
comes to mind no differently than "nylon" or "Spanish". Those terms to me relate more to the type of strings on the guitar. (nylon or gut)
Even though an electric guitar may have a hollow body as an acoustic it is referred to as a "hollow body". If it
is not completely hollow such as a neck-thru it can be referred to as a "chambered" or "semi-hollow" bodied guitar.
"Acoustic" can be some be simply- designed to be heard without amplification. Adding a pickup would not change that.
 
And Reece I may need to be corrected about any or all that I've said.
I would label his guitar an electric acoustic, thinline designed especially for live-stage use. (feedback and playability issues).
  
 


sounded like some pretty obvious reverb and chorusing on the guitar... while it is acoustic/electric, and also obviously not miked, it does sound good in it's own way.




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#32
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 10:38:16 (permalink)
If you gotta wear a strap it's not acoustic.






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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 10:41:15 (permalink)
mike_mccue


If you gotta wear a strap it's not acoustic.




Tom T Hall.... what a great songwriter!

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#34
Cactus Music
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 11:02:04 (permalink)
I guess from a recording point of view,,, it's would be an acoustic if you can record and capture it's full sound using a mike.
It's electric if you have to plug it in.
But,,, I will disagree with my self here!
I own a Yamaha APX 6 which is technically is clasified as an Acoustic /Electric guitar, it sounds terrible on a mike but is very passable plugged in.
And then there are some very good sounding guitars that sound terrible plugged in. And on and on.
So I think most of us if asked to record an acoustic guitar would immediately think of a Martin D28 or a Taylor. And we would concider that it might have a good PU system that could be used in the recording in parallel with a condenser mike or 2. 
If asked to record a Classical we would immediately think Nylon and condenser mikes.
Someone mentioned old Beatles recordings, I think they used Gibson Hummingbirds? with a signal coil PU in the fretboard and a mike. Lots of 60's music has that sound. A little on the boomy side.
When I think of Acoustic guitar, I think of the many excellent bluegrass artists like Doc Watson. The recordings on Vanguard.  100%  room/mike position/tape. And a great instrument.


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#35
spacey
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 11:19:31 (permalink)
Well I think the train has left the tracks....
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 11:20:34 (permalink)

;-)


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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 11:26:53 (permalink)
spacey


Well I think the train has left the tracks....

Train songs now?
 
Mostly done with acoutic guitars, so not entirely derailed.
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spacey
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 11:46:08 (permalink)
Train songs, plane songs, songs about dogs....it just doesn't matter now...
Acoustic, electric acoustic, blown acoustic, tromblown acoustic....just doesn't matter....


Charlie stole the handle....
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 12:05:19 (permalink)

Did you have any interest in the J B Lenior record?

To my knowledge it was recorded at Chess with a single mic... and everything sounds live... it's a really exciting recording of a guitar playing guitar and singing... squeaks, stomps, and all.

best regards,
mike



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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 12:40:31 (permalink)
mike_mccue


Did you have any interest in the J B Lenior record?

To my knowledge it was recorded at Chess with a single mic... and everything sounds live... it's a really exciting recording of a guitar playing guitar and singing... squeaks, stomps, and all.

best regards,
mike

Based on you comments, absolutely. I found it at BestBuy for 18 with shipping/tax....and thank you.
#41
Bub
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 13:11:59 (permalink)
One thing I used to do when I first got in to recording was, I would tape a mic to the body of my acoustic. I don't remember what kind of mic it was, but it was small and round (nothing high end) and it sat on the body just perfect and then I taped it on to keep it in place. I made some really good recordings using a couple of those in different spots of the body mixed together.

Is taping a mic to the body of an acoustic a recognized method for recording and has anyone else heard of this or tried it?


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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 13:24:43 (permalink)
I hope you enjoy it. The guitar playing is in support of his singing. His singing has as sweet a tone as ever came off the delta.

I have often thought the guitar playing, all things considered, is fantastic. One mic, a bunch of great tube compression and a good tape recorder make it sound full and authoritative... it takes a while to hear how disciplined and strong Mr Lenoir's left hand was. You get squeaks and pull off grunts... but only when it's musical. He plays it clean when need be and uses the squeaks and articulations to create extra music.

Once again, I sure hope you enjoy it.


best regards.
mike


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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 13:27:11 (permalink)

Is taping a mic to the body of an acoustic a recognized method for recording and has anyone else heard of this or tried it?



Before the easy availability of factory installs it was pretty common.

It almost always sounds like a mic taped to a body.


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miguelito
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 13:29:50 (permalink)
I was listening to Pat Metheny's new solo acoustic album over the weekend. About as good as it gets tone wise (imo) for acoustic solo guitar. Particulary the song 'Alfie' where it starts out with a touch that is so light I would call it breathless and proceeds to where he is really starting to 'dig in' a bit. Recommended

Mike

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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 13:43:47 (permalink)
If this train is still running , I'd like to offer this up;

Willy Porter - Cut The Rope

You guys probably find it old hat, but I'd never seen anyone play behind the capo before, and I still find that sound mesmerizing.

On this one he's using 2 capos;

Angry Words


post edited by jamesg1213 - 2011/06/20 13:45:44

 
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 13:55:34 (permalink)
Speaking of trains leaving the station: 

http://www.youtube.com/wa...0xWGA&feature=fvst


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spacey
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 14:09:27 (permalink)
miguelito


I was listening to Pat Metheny's new solo acoustic album over the weekend. About as good as it gets tone wise (imo) for acoustic solo guitar. Particulary the song 'Alfie' where it starts out with a touch that is so light I would call it breathless and proceeds to where he is really starting to 'dig in' a bit. Recommended

Has been one of my fav's for years...waiting on the CD. Here is a treat for others maybe interested.
And one of my favorite Beatle tunes to boot.
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 14:35:48 (permalink)
spacey: I've been blown away by the album - the playing is fantastic and the tone is... out of this world. I think you'll really enjoy it.

Mike

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#49
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 14:50:29 (permalink)
miguelito


spacey: I've been blown away by the album - the playing is fantastic and the tone is... out of this world. I think you'll really enjoy it.

I'm at work and can't find the info but I have him on a DVD with his group playing a concert in S. Korea.
It is simply amazing. Everything about it. And the feedback from the people....perfection.
But this CD is different....it's him. Playing what he plays for himself. Now that's special. I'm anxious to hear it.
I'm very glad he took the time.
 
Found it..."The Way Up"...cover was throwing me..remembered it differently.
post edited by spacey - 2011/06/20 14:55:58
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57Gregy
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 16:14:21 (permalink)
To add to what Dave wrote and answering your original question, I don't find the noises the guitar/guitarist makes to be annoying unless it's a multiply-repeated part. Then the noises can become distracting to me. Otherwise, "real" is good. You know someone played it.

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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 20:44:18 (permalink)
mike_mccue

Is taping a mic to the body of an acoustic a recognized method for recording and has anyone else heard of this or tried it?
Before the easy availability of factory installs it was pretty common.

It almost always sounds like a mic taped to a body.
Martin offers an under saddle pickup option (which would be very similar to taping a mic to the body I would think?). They recommend using it in conjunction with their Fishman Ellipse Aura built in preamp on the DC-28E.

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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 21:01:27 (permalink)
Cactus Music


I guess from a recording point of view,,, it's would be an acoustic if you can record and capture it's full sound using a mike.
It's electric if you have to plug it in.
But,,, I will disagree with my self here!
I own a Yamaha APX 6 which is technically is clasified as an Acoustic /Electric guitar, it sounds terrible on a mike but is very passable plugged in.
And then there are some very good sounding guitars that sound terrible plugged in. And on and on.
So I think most of us if asked to record an acoustic guitar would immediately think of a Martin D28 or a Taylor. And we would concider that it might have a good PU system that could be used in the recording in parallel with a condenser mike or 2. 
If asked to record a Classical we would immediately think Nylon and condenser mikes.
Someone mentioned old Beatles recordings, I think they used Gibson Hummingbirds? with a signal coil PU in the fretboard and a mike. Lots of 60's music has that sound. A little on the boomy side.
When I think of Acoustic guitar, I think of the many excellent bluegrass artists like Doc Watson. The recordings on Vanguard.  100%  room/mike position/tape. And a great instrument.

Someone mentioned old Beatles recordings, I think they used Gibson Hummingbirds? with a signal coil PU in the fretboard and a mike. Lots of 60's music has that sound. A little on the boomy side.

 
That would be a Gibson J160E.  I had 2 of them, and yup, they were a bit boomy. 
#53
spacey
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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/20 21:24:50 (permalink)
jamesg1213


If this train is still running , I'd like to offer this up;

Willy Porter - Cut The Rope

You guys probably find it old hat, but I'd never seen anyone play behind the capo before, and I still find that sound mesmerizing.

On this one he's using 2 capos;

Angry Words


James he uses a partial capo that covers the A, D, G strings and uses it alone or in combination with a capo.

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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/21 11:38:51 (permalink)
Bub- There is a huge difference to the sound under the saddle and the surface of the soundboard. There are even different ways to make saddle PU, the ones that use pressure can be unbalanced if one string pushes down harder. If you ever purchase a guitar with an under the saddle PU,  Test each string one at a time ( with a meter if possible) even some very expensive guitars have unbalanced string output. Look for LR Baggs. They have a more even sound over all the strings.
Those old contact PU were usually made by Barcus Berry. They are the same as a drum trigger.
Old timers talked about jamming a phonograph needle into the wood.

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Re:Acoustic guitar questions... 2011/06/21 15:41:06 (permalink)
Cactus Music


Bub- There is a huge difference to the sound under the saddle and the surface of the soundboard. There are even different ways to make saddle PU, the ones that use pressure can be unbalanced if one string pushes down harder. If you ever purchase a guitar with an under the saddle PU,  Test each string one at a time ( with a meter if possible) even some very expensive guitars have unbalanced string output. Look for LR Baggs. They have a more even sound over all the strings.
Those old contact PU were usually made by Barcus Berry. They are the same as a drum trigger.
Old timers talked about jamming a phonograph needle into the wood.
Thanks for the under the saddle balancing tip. I plan on getting a Martin DC-28E with that option. I'll make sure to check it, they're excellent about making adjustments like that.






That phonograph needle trick is awesome! :) I didn't want to admit it in my original post because it sounds so cheesy, but I used to use a pair of lightweight headphones as microphones and put them on the body along with the taped on mic's. I ran it all through a little 4 channel mixer to blend it. I know it sounds crazy but I got some really good recordings out of it.

"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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