Mixer setting followup question to CJays

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alexisrael
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June 01, 10 3:45 AM (permalink)

Mixer setting followup question to CJays

CJays, thanks for helpful reading references you provided in response on my earlier post:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2015591


While I read and realised before many of the issues you described, your excellent writing opened more questions. 

One of them is the following: 

On my mixer I usually have the following settings for my pair of stereo condenser mics: 

Trim: +35dB (rotary knob scale is from +10 to +60dB) - similar for the 2nd channel 
Level: +9dB (rotary with maximum value of +15dB) - similar for the second channel 
Master: +6dB (rotary with a maximum value of +15dB) 

I record with no compression, at 48Khz, 16 bit 

My question (following your reading) is:  

While I have no specific reason for the above settings would it be better to increase trim value and decrease level or vice versa? What is the physics/recording rationale here for optimizing the signal (I have low noise level since I have recording computer and mixer in another room, so in front of me are mics, lcd computer screen with a shielded cable and wireless computer keyboard/mouse) 
post edited by alexisrael - June 01, 10 3:47 AM
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    Beagle
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    Re:Mixer setting followup question to CJays June 01, 10 8:15 AM (permalink)
    don't worry so much about the exact values on the mixer, worry more about the levels you're getting in Sonar as you record. 

    recording at 16bit limits you some, so you should be recording as hot as you can without going into digital clipping (don't hit 0dB or higher) in order to preserve your dynamics of your performance.

    if you were recording at 24bit you could record at much lower levels, also reducing your noise floor and still preserve your dynamics (even if you decide to squish them later!).  recording at 24bit you should shoot for peaks at around -6dB.

    so you should set your input gains so that your levels in sonar are reaching those parameters, not set your levels on your meter to a specific setting.

    if you're asking about gain staging and whether you should change your levels based on the stage, it depends on your mixer as to which stage might be noisier.  you want the lowest level gain on the highest self-noise amp.

    mostly for mixers, this isn't a problem because the noise levels are going to be about the same for trim, level, master, etc. and won't make any difference if you increase the level and decrease the trim because your noise is still going to be about the same.

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    papa2005
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    Re:Mixer setting followup question to CJays June 02, 10 4:41 AM (permalink)
    alexisrael,

    You should not need to crank your levels that high...What mics are you using and what mixer are you using?

    Regards,
    Papa

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    alexisrael
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    Re:Mixer setting followup question to CJays June 02, 10 9:09 AM (permalink)
    Hello, I use Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer and a matched stereo pair of condenser mics Behringer C4, both are itemized below. Audio interface is also from Behringer, UCA202 (48Khz, 16 bit).
    http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/802.aspx

    http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/C-4.aspx


    I am now thinking to get tube mic ultragain module from Behringer:
    http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/MIC200.aspx

    The above setting only once in a long while (1 vocal track in 5-6) gives me (in HS7XL recorded track) one of the channel clipped in one or so instance during the recording. As clipping rarely affects both L and R channels I then cure the clipped channel by coping not-clipped channel waveform instead of the clipped portion (this also helps to eliminate occasional pop-s with Ps and similar sounds).


    For sample recording listen the bottom entry in the list of songs at my Google files, my redirecting URL is http://mp3.rusradio.me (the last record - my original Russian lyrics song on melody of Le Vent Le Cry by Ennio Morricone - in the list was done using my Abbey Road Studio 1 modelling with Cakewalk FX3 SoundStage)

    Thanks for your help!
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    CJaysMusic
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    Re:Mixer setting followup question to CJays June 02, 10 7:04 PM (permalink)
    Yea, your settings are meaning less without them being in context with your mix.
    Another thing. I never mess with my trim levels. I leave them at zero.
    I also leave the master bus and buses at zero.
    I mix with my  track faders and my send levels.

    Your settings look way way way too hot. You should never go above 0 and you should record in 24bit.
    In a project with 20 tracks, my track faders are between -24 and -15.

    The more tracks you have, the lower your faders should be, due to the sum of one track is less than the sum of 10 tracks.
    Your master bus peak level should not go above 0 with your master bus fader set at 0
    This is a huge topic. Mixing that is, so just take it slow
    Cj

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