EZ Drummer- Multi Track

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Danny Danzi
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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/25 19:44:51 (permalink)
Yeah but there are 2 things to remember.

1. There's not been a drum module I've used that sounds drastically different using 16/44 or 24/48.

2. If the samples are at 16/44, when you export or bounce down to wave or whatever, you'll be somewhat upsampling. Meaning, the samples will actually be committed to the project at the end at whatever bit/sample you are using. Don't let the sample rates scare you.

When you use Superior or BFD or anything that allows for 24 bit etc, compare the samples in 16 and 24 bit and listen close. See if you can really hear a major difference. I've tried for years and can never tell. So I use all mine in 16 bit mode. It uses less sample power and cuts the sample size in half. When I load up BFD 2 in 24 bit mode, I hear no difference in the sound. When I change it to 16 bit, the sample size drops from over a gig to 538mb and again..no difference in sound to my ears. If it exists...which it probably does, my ears can't pick up on it enough to use it. I'm one of those guys that needs to hear a drastic difference in something before I commit to it and brag about it. If I listen to something 3 times and have to struggle to hear a difference or hear no difference at all, it's not drastic enough and no one else will notice either. :)

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Deisel401rs
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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/25 20:48:18 (permalink)
With your experience, if you can't hear a difference, then i never will. And that really takes a lot concern off me for not getting Superior Drummer. I was really close to going that way.  I ordered EZD about 10 mins ago and I'm waiting for the link to show up in my inbox. Finally byebye Session Drummer. Hehe.

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Danny Danzi
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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 05:46:52 (permalink)
Well Deisel, here's the thing. With EZD, you won't be able to combine kit pieces unless you go the long way around like I show in the second part of my video. With Superior, you can literally pick drums from each kit pack you have and use them as an "X" kit. To me, that ability alone makes Superior the better choice over EZD plus other options Superior has that EZD does not. You'll be ok with EZD though...for the price, nothing tops it in my opinion right now. :)

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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 09:43:27 (permalink)
Hi Danny,

Just wanted to say thanks for the video. Very informative video and very helpful technique.

You don't by any chance off the top of your head know where to find the CAL Function Reference do you? I tried to locate it a few years back and finally gave up. Your usage tweaked my curiousity again. No worries if you don't.

Thanks again.

Regards.

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#34
Danny Danzi
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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 10:10:18 (permalink)
Hi Mike,

You're quite welcome. :) Actually, if you open up the split notes to track cal file in notepad, you can edit it following with what they have already and just change it for your stuff.

For example, this is how the original CAL file looks:

0 (TrackName (format "Split Note C" nOctave) nDestTrk)
      1 (TrackName (format "Split Note C#" nOctave) nDestTrk)
      2 (TrackName (format "Split Note D" nOctave) nDestTrk)
      3 (TrackName (format "Split Note D#" nOctave) nDestTrk)
      4 (TrackName (format "Split Note E" nOctave) nDestTrk)
      5 (TrackName (format "Split Note F" nOctave) nDestTrk)

This is how some of my instruments show up in my custom CAL file after it was edited. It doesn't look too cool...but it works. LOL! My friend Jeff actually created this for me and once I saw what he did, I just used what he started and filled in my own stuff as I added more pads to my V Drums kit. This isn't the entire CAL, just a few examples as to how it looks in notepad. 

(if (== nNote 35)
       (do  
    (= TrName "Pedal Hat")
       )
   )
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
   (if (== nNote 36)
       (do  
    (= TrName "Kick")
       )
   )
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
   (if (== nNote 38)
       (do  
    (= TrName "Snare Center")
       )
   )
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
   (if (== nNote 39)
       (do  
    (= TrName "Closed Hat")
       )
   )
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
   (if (== nNote 40)
       (do  
    (= TrName "Snare Rim")
       )
   )

Not sure what the crazy extra ( ) and ;;;;; are for in the end...but he had them in his, so I kept them in my revised version and just added what I needed as far as additional track names and note numbers go. Hope this helps a bit.

-Danny 
post edited by Danny Danzi - 2011/07/26 10:11:40

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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 11:07:13 (permalink)
Danny Danzi


Yeah but there are 2 things to remember.

1. There's not been a drum module I've used that sounds drastically different using 16/44 or 24/48.

2. If the samples are at 16/44, when you export or bounce down to wave or whatever, you'll be somewhat upsampling. Meaning, the samples will actually be committed to the project at the end at whatever bit/sample you are using. Don't let the sample rates scare you.

When you use Superior or BFD or anything that allows for 24 bit etc, compare the samples in 16 and 24 bit and listen close. See if you can really hear a major difference. I've tried for years and can never tell. So I use all mine in 16 bit mode. It uses less sample power and cuts the sample size in half. When I load up BFD 2 in 24 bit mode, I hear no difference in the sound. When I change it to 16 bit, the sample size drops from over a gig to 538mb and again..no difference in sound to my ears. If it exists...which it probably does, my ears can't pick up on it enough to use it. I'm one of those guys that needs to hear a drastic difference in something before I commit to it and brag about it. If I listen to something 3 times and have to struggle to hear a difference or hear no difference at all, it's not drastic enough and no one else will notice either. :)

-Danny


I'm pretty sure FXpansion themselves recommend loading all BFD samples in 16-bit mode unless you're running a pretty high end system

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miguelito
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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 11:16:44 (permalink)
Wow thanks Danny! That may help get me on my way.

If my old XLISP programming memories are correct the ;;;; is just a 'comment' delimiter and the parenthesis always have to balance (the LISP in XLISP stands for Lost In Stupid Parentheses). ;)

Thanks again.

Mike

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Danny Danzi
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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 11:27:04 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey


Danny Danzi


Yeah but there are 2 things to remember.

1. There's not been a drum module I've used that sounds drastically different using 16/44 or 24/48.

2. If the samples are at 16/44, when you export or bounce down to wave or whatever, you'll be somewhat upsampling. Meaning, the samples will actually be committed to the project at the end at whatever bit/sample you are using. Don't let the sample rates scare you.

When you use Superior or BFD or anything that allows for 24 bit etc, compare the samples in 16 and 24 bit and listen close. See if you can really hear a major difference. I've tried for years and can never tell. So I use all mine in 16 bit mode. It uses less sample power and cuts the sample size in half. When I load up BFD 2 in 24 bit mode, I hear no difference in the sound. When I change it to 16 bit, the sample size drops from over a gig to 538mb and again..no difference in sound to my ears. If it exists...which it probably does, my ears can't pick up on it enough to use it. I'm one of those guys that needs to hear a drastic difference in something before I commit to it and brag about it. If I listen to something 3 times and have to struggle to hear a difference or hear no difference at all, it's not drastic enough and no one else will notice either. :)

-Danny


I'm pretty sure FXpansion themselves recommend loading all BFD samples in 16-bit mode unless you're running a pretty high end system


That they do Jonesey! But I've really never had a problem running it in 24 bit mode. I just really could not hear a difference at all...so I figured, why use it if it's not something that I can blatantly hear, ya know? :)

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Danny Danzi
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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 11:29:32 (permalink)
miguelito


Wow thanks Danny! That may help get me on my way.

If my old XLISP programming memories are correct the ;;;; is just a 'comment' delimiter and the parenthesis always have to balance (the LISP in XLISP stands for Lost In Stupid Parentheses). ;)

Thanks again.

You're welcome. Hahah you know more about it than I do! Since you know about the programming aspect, why does my custom CAL have all the ;;;; and (()) and the real one looks so neat and formulated? I don't know anything about these CAL files other than like I said...a bud of mine made me the custom one, it worked perfectly, I looked to see what he did, made some changes and saved them....and thankfully it still worked. LOL! :)
 
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miguelito
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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 13:18:55 (permalink)
why does my custom CAL have all the ;;;; and (())

 
Danny, if not all then almost all, programming languages have some type of character or characters to begin a comment section. A single parenthes (sp?) appears to be the ticket for CAL. Comments allow the person writing the code to make notes about what they are doing.
 
IIRC CAL is loosely based on the XLISP language (I'm thinking back to around '98 when I first came across Cakewalk). XLISP is a subset of LISP and in LISP/XLISP the "(" and ")" are used to open and close (respectively) blocks of code. So the following:
 
;;;;; check to see if we have a true thing
(if (== true true)    ;;;; of course true is true mike true is always true why you are checking???
    (
        (do_something_here)    ;;;; do something useful if true is true, which of course it is.
    )
)    ;;;;;    <-- close out the IF block
 
HTH, amigo and thanks again for that video. Very cool stuff!
 
Regards.
 

Mike

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#40
Danny Danzi
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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 15:10:23 (permalink)
miguelito



why does my custom CAL have all the ;;;; and (())

 
Danny, if not all then almost all, programming languages have some type of character or characters to begin a comment section. A single parenthes (sp?) appears to be the ticket for CAL. Comments allow the person writing the code to make notes about what they are doing.
 
IIRC CAL is loosely based on the XLISP language (I'm thinking back to around '98 when I first came across Cakewalk). XLISP is a subset of LISP and in LISP/XLISP the "(" and ")" are used to open and close (respectively) blocks of code. So the following:
 
;;;;; check to see if we have a true thing
(if (== true true)    ;;;; of course true is true mike true is always true why you are checking???
    (
        (do_something_here)    ;;;; do something useful if true is true, which of course it is.
    )
)    ;;;;;    <-- close out the IF block
 
HTH, amigo and thanks again for that video. Very cool stuff!
 
Regards.
 

Hahaha that's great Mike...thanks for sharing that! I would have never had a clue about that stuff. I guess I could have looked it up somewhere but you made it so I didn't have to. LOL! You're welcome on the vid...good luck with everything. :)
 
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Deisel401rs
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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 15:35:32 (permalink)
I've been recording 24/96 ever since i purchased a quad core and Sonar 8 a few years ago.  I'm assuming most , if not all, of the samples I've ever used were (are) 16 bit and have never caused a problem living in a 24/96 project. So EZD should be fine , right? Downloaded and installed EZD late last night but didn't have time to play. Going to apply the updates and patches after work and finally have some fun with it in Sonar. Then, after a good break, I'm going to set up my "EZD-Danzi" Template. Hooooooooweeeeee. . . . .  .. lol.
post edited by Deisel401rs - 2011/07/26 15:47:28

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Danny Danzi
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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 15:48:51 (permalink)
Deisel401rs


I've been recording 24/96 ever since i purchased a quad core and Sonar 8 a few years ago.  I'm assuming most , if not all, of the samples I've ever used were (are) 16 bit and have never caused a problem living in a 24/96 project. So EZD should be fine , right? Downloaded and installed EZD late last night but didn't have time to play. Going to apply the updates and patches after work and finally have some fun with it in Sonar. Then, after a good break, I'm going to set up m "EZD-Danzi" Template. Hooooooooweeeeee. . . . .  .. lol.

EZD will be fine...stop worrying. LOL!! Yikes, 24/96...you really don't need to record there bro. Not telling you what to do or anything, but for just about all styles of music other than all acoustic or orchestra recordings with mics and rooms....you don't need to go that high, honest. Do a test project and see what I mean. Record a 30 second or 1 minute project at 24/48. Then, open up a new template, change your sample rate to 96, and re-record the exact same things and compare. If you're doing rock, blues, pop, direct recording, speaker sims, amp sims, drum modules etc...trust me, 24/48 will be fine, your files will be smaller and it will be less taxing on your system. It's all in the mics and rooms you use for 24/96 to really make an impact. Try it for yourself and see if you can hear a major difference. :)
 
LOL @ the EZD-Danzi template! Well I'll tell you what, in the event you get stuck...which I know you wont, use this as a guide that should work fine to cop from. :) Just drop this in your track templates in audio/drums and you can use it to help you understand and tweak this stuff better if you have any problems, ok? Here's a link for it.
 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/DanziEzdBasic.cwx
 
You may get an error that it wasn't created in X1 or something...don't worry about that. You can always resave it using X1 and you won't get that anymore. Good luck Deisel...and no worries, EZD will work fine for you. :)
 
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Deisel401rs
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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 16:43:05 (permalink)
I absolutely agree with you about the recording quality. I've probably done way too much reading and research, but I think it's possible the benefit in recording at 96 ultimately makes effects such as verb, etc. sound a bit "smoother" in a finished product. I've never done any testing on any of this stuff so I have no doubt about what you're saying. To be honest with you, when I set up my DAW, i just wanted to see if it could handle 24/96. It ran great and I just never really thought about switching back to 24/48. And thank you very much for the link. Be home in a few and I'm gonna get that template setup and try to post my 1st instrumental here in the next day or 2. Have a great day dude !

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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/26 16:53:12 (permalink)
There's not been a drum module I've used that sounds drastically different using 16/44 or 24/48


Ditto here for using 16-bit drum samples almost exclusively. Cuts the memory load in Superior by 50%. If the memory's especially short I'll also use the caching feature, which unloads samples that aren't actually used in the song.

Record a 30 second or 1 minute project at 24/48. Then, open up a new template, change your sample rate to 96, and re-record the exact same things and compare. If you're doing rock, blues, pop, direct recording, speaker sims, amp sims, drum modules etc...trust me, 24/48 will be fine, your files will be smaller and it will be less taxing on your system.


A famous test was done in which 44/16 data was inserted into a 96/24 recording. If there had been an audible difference, it would surely be apparent when you suddenly switched from one to the other. But there wasn't, even when the listeners were audio professionals who knew what they were listening for.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/29 11:25:01 (permalink)
post edited by Deisel401rs - 2011/07/29 13:20:48

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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/29 14:16:22 (permalink)
batsbrew


look into superior.
it has a lot to offer, and the upgrade price, when on sale, is a no brainer.

Ok after a bit of investigation, I would probably upgrade, though not as much for the flexibility as to get my hands on the C&V expansion. 


Maybe someday. In the meantime, I just bought the Classic EZX and I'm having a great time torturing it w/ Magnetic and IK's White 2A. :P


Is it just me or the audio demos on Toontrack really don't do justice to their products? I had doubts about the Classic EZX but I figured I'd give it a try anyway and it's much better than I expected. I'm also considering the Vintage one, and hopefully, it'll turn out to be just as good, but the demos sound pretty dry. I mean, you see the name Bonham in the description, but listening to the demos, it's hard to imagine that these would come close to Bonzo's sound. 


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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/07/31 15:59:09 (permalink)
Bummer. EZD has a bug which prevents more than 1 instance to be loaded in a project that is higher than 44.1. Found that info on the Toontrack website after having Sonar crash 3 x after attempting to insert 2nd instance.

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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/08/01 10:48:11 (permalink)
WELL, don't giveup, just move to 44.1, and see what you think.

the samples sound just as good to my ears, the diff between 48 and 44 just isn't enough of a bother to me, and i haven't compared to 96k (i have superior)

now, i hear the difference between the 24 bit samples in superior, and the 16 bit samples in ezdrummer.
i upgraded from ez to superior, first thing i noticed was that the samples seemed...... crisper.


but the GOOD thing about EZ, is that the samples are already processed to sound finished, which makes things really easy. EZ.

with superior, you've got to massage everything.


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Re:EZ Drummer- Multi Track 2011/08/05 20:04:38 (permalink)
I downloaded the EZD drum map for Sonar, dropped it into "Program Files/Cakewalk/Sonar Producer 8.5/Drum Maps" and it won't load in PRV ? Am i doing something wrong ? Wrong path maybe?
post edited by Deisel401rs - 2011/08/06 15:05:18

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