bysbox1
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 00:32:10
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Poco
After having been spoiled with the rock solid perfromance of Melodyne Plugin, I was fairly disgusted with Melodyne Editor (which, oddly enough, is a plug-in as well). To those of you saying you have no problems with ME, can you import 3.5 minutes of violin (or anything else for that matter) in polytimbre detection mode, and not have it either quit completely or go so slow as to be worthless? DNA (polytimbral analysis) is only good if you can get your work done without resorting to doing small chunks at a time or other, time consuming workarounds. Even in monotimbral mode, detection is muuuuuch slower, and the chances of it hogging all your RAM increase exponentially with the length of the imported data.
What really tied it for me, is that you cannot have Plugin and Editor installed at the same time. Celemony claims that they are seperate products, and you can't have both (ummmm, you mean kind of like not having multiple versions of SONAR installed at the same time??). They said that it was an industry standard... Which industry?
Anyway, for the time being, I consider Editor to be in the "not ready for prime time" category, and continue to use familiar, rock solid ol' Plugin. If you doubt me, just go on their forums and read the nightmares. I check every once in a while, and the same issues crop up over and over.
User: this thing crashes
Claudio: Have you set your audio buffers to 1,024 samples?
User: Yes
Claudio: Have you set your audio buffers to 1,024 samples real hard?
There are now 5,394 posts in their "Issues and workarounds" category. That should say enough right there. The kicker: Posted Monday, August 22 - Constant Editor 1.2 crashes in Sonar 8.5 and X1
'Nuff said.
(edit)
I just noticed this in response to the above complaint:
Hello Skyline,
I just confirmed that shorter transfers under X1/64 work right through here (Win 7/i7 Quad CPU).
A 3:30 min polyphonic transfer passed testing, while a 13 minute transfer with two instances didn't. I agree that there might be a time or (RAM) related issue we or Cakewalk need to get into.
For now, I strongly recommend to:
a. transfer only sections that need correction, transfer section by section, save inbetween
b. avoid long transfer like whole tracks
c. do not transfer to multiple instances
Best, Ulf (Of Melodyne)
It looks like Ulf has just officially joined you, John.
You see I always saw Melodyne (in plugin mode) as a phrase editor. They say in the manual you mut use very high buffer rates to begin with. Melodyne actually recommend 1024, but I have used 512 and even got away with 256. I have done 5 and 6 minute vocals and monophonic guitars no problem. I have had trouble with long length Polyphonic material, but I do a lot of Electronic Music where most material is in phrases anyway. I you are transfering an 8 or 16 bar phrase it works well. So bottom line is it depends on your use.
Byron Thomas X-1/Velocity/Curve Recordings Altitude Studios
www.altitudegrooves.com
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yorolpal
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 00:50:47
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I've got the window expansion now...and thanks for the tip...but even after trying to delete (after making a backup) the 32 bit dll the 64bit plugin still shows as 120 and not 121. Are you sure that your plugin is showing 121 in the "about" screen? Can't figure out where I've gone wrong. But at least I've got a "big screen" to work in now. Thanks a million, ol pal!
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bapu
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 00:53:36
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yorolpal
I've got the window expansion now...and thanks for the tip...but even after trying to delete (after making a backup) the 32 bit dll. The 64bit plugin still shows as 120 and not 121. Are you sure that your plugin is showing 121 in the "about" screen? Can't figure out where I've gone wrong. But at least I've got a "big screen" to work in now. Thanks a million, ol pal!
100% certain my plug and standalone both say 1.2.1 (in the 64bit and 32bit versions). Keep on truckin' myol. You'll finger it out.
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dke
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 02:49:25
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yorolpal
I've got the window expansion now...and thanks for the tip...but even after trying to delete (after making a backup) the 32 bit dll the 64bit plugin still shows as 120 and not 121. Are you sure that your plugin is showing 121 in the "about" screen? Can't figure out where I've gone wrong. But at least I've got a "big screen" to work in now. Thanks a million, ol pal!
You know, if I recall right I had to manually move the updated ME dll to my Sonar vst folder. I can't remember where it ended up might have been "Program files\celemony\melodyne singletrack\melodyne.dll Dan
Sonar Platinum ( x64), Windows 10 x64, HP Envy i5 2.9GHZ, 8GB, Tascam 4x4 USB, BX5a Monitors.
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Twigman
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 04:38:31
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How does audio to midi perform on polyphonic tracks?
I am thinking of taking a poorly played strummed guitar part, identifying the chords played, extracting and tidying up the midi and replacing the guitar with OTS in Kontakt.......will Melodyne Editor allow me to do that?
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yorolpal
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 10:17:54
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I looked there Dan, ol pal. But all that's in that folder is Melodyne.exe and Melodyne.PDF. The install looks like it installs the dll files but it apparently doesn't. One thing...when the installer firsts pops up it says it wants to "modify" the existing Melodyne. I just kept that as the default. Is that what you did?
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yorolpal
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 10:30:54
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Got it! And thanks Dan cause you were partly right. Melodyne creates a folder in the c:program files\common files... that's where the dll was. There was a Melodyne forum message and answer that outlines this. It's a very unintuitive way of installing. It should...like most all other plugs...let you browse for the folder you wish to install in. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 11:17:32
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It should...like most all other plugs...let you browse for the folder you wish to install in. Especially with a 64Bit OS, you have to really watch where the plugin dll files are being installed. There's absolutely no standardization... -Some plugins ping the registry for the default (usually 32Bit) VST Plugin folder -Some blanketly install to C:Program Files (x86)\Steinberg\VstPlugins (which is a throw-back to the old days) -Some install to a sub-folder of their main install folder -Some place the 32Bit and 64Bit dll files in the same folder If you accept the defaults (which is easy to do when distracted/busy), you can quickly wind up with a mess. Not saying this specifically for you Ol Pal... as I know you're pretty savvy Just thought it was worth re-stating... for less experience users 
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yorolpal
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 11:23:17
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Melodyne is even worse...it doesn't even give you an option and doesn't show where it's going either. Sheesh. What, me savy??:-)
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Twigman
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 11:33:22
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From here http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=host_comp
[Finding the 64-bit plug-in]
The location of the Melodyne 64-bit VST2 plug-in can be freely selected upon installation. Please select the path which you might have already set with Sonar to look for 64-bit VSTs.
Sonar X1 defaults to:
- C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\vstplugins
You may well use this path, or – if you prefer a dedicated path for all your VST plug-ins – use the default path for VST plug-in installations:
- C:\Program Files\Common Files\Steinberg\VST2\Celemony
If the Steinberg folder does not exist, Melodyne looks for an existing path here:
- C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST2\Celemony
If this path does not exist, Melodyne will create it.
In any case, you need to add this location to your VST scan in Sonar by following these steps:
- Call up the Tools menu
- Call up the Cakewalk Plug-in Manager and select VST Audio Effects (VST) in the left column
- Now, press Options in the VST Configuration section. This panel allows you to add new paths for Sonar's search for plug-ins. Press Add to set the folder where you installed your Melodyne.
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yorolpal
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 12:05:21
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Yup, that's what I found too Twig, ol pal. They should make that a "sticky" over at Celemony.
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jonathan1967
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 13:00:53
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Kreative
I've used Editor as a plugin with Sonar X1b and had no issues whatsoever. Melodyne is an absolutely amazing piece of software that works very seamlessly within X1 64 bit and provides powerful and useful features. It is a creative goldmine, in my opinion, and well worth having for vocal and music editing.
I like to use it for vocal harmonies, pitch correction, or just to simply rework loops into something different.
I'm curious... How natural-sounding are are those Melodyne-generated harmonies? Will they work for old-school folk/country/70s soft rock type stuff, or just for processed-sounding modern pop songs? Thanks, Jonathan
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John T
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 13:07:43
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It's a bit case-by-case, that, judging from my experiments. A lot depends on the original vocal you're working from, and it can be quite laborious getting it all lined up. For example, a lead vocal may do a lot more sliding between notes for effect, where often you want stacked harmonies to be sung a lot more straight. But within reasonable ranges, like thirds above and the like, it can be impressively realistic. The illusion breaks down somewhat the more sparse your arrangement is, of course.
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Skyline_UK
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 13:25:29
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I've just finished a song with 'artificial' harmonies - I just cloned my lead vocal and adjusted the cloned clips by thirds in Melodyne (in multiple short sessions so I could avoid the WSOD I get after two or three minutes...) In my experience the notes don't sound natural at all when moved by a third; any further movement than that sounds comical. Pitch tuning corrections sound ok as you're not going far (usually!), but making artificial harmonies is poor - again I stress that's my experience. No doubt others might disagree, in which case I'd love to know what I'm doing wrong! The good news is that harmony tracks with dodgy stretching sound ok in the mix, and if you're into 'modern pop' you might want the helium effect anyway as per: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfPXT7rZM-0 Melodyne have a tutorial video on their site showing a hamony of thirds being made. Unfortunatley they don't let you hear the harmony track in isolation, but to be fair they aren't advocating using Melodyne to make artificlal harmonies, but rather guide-only harmonies to help a singer do them for real. http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=videos#top John
post edited by Skyline_UK - 2011/08/24 13:27:59
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Robomusic
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 13:42:51
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I have no experience with Melodyne as a harmonizer, i use a TC helicon Voice works, and to get solid beleivable harmonies takes a bit of work. I set up the machine so it folws a midi track for chords, or a key setup what ever seems reasonable. then in the sertup it allows you to remove the incoming voice, and only record the harmonized voices. the advantage is that you can just sing the original vocal with not twist, turns, and tricks. Striaght, and easy.
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yorolpal
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 14:05:40
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If you really want natural sounding harmonies...even a fifth up...check out Flux Trax. Expensive? Yes. Complicated? Yes. Does it work? Yes.
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bapu
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 14:13:39
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yorolpal
If you really want natural sounding harmonies...even a fifth up...check out Flux Trax. Expensive? Yes. Complicated? Yes. Does it work? Yes.
25% off right now. Tempting myolpal. Will you provide a tutorial?
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dke
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 14:48:23
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yorolpal
Melodyne is even worse...it doesn't even give you an option and doesn't show where it's going either. Sheesh. What, me savy??:-)
Yeah, I think it was just an oversight on the melodyne installer, I don't recall having problems with the previous installs/updates. That is definitley an odd place to put it, but now that I see the path again that's the one I remember as well. Dan
Sonar Platinum ( x64), Windows 10 x64, HP Envy i5 2.9GHZ, 8GB, Tascam 4x4 USB, BX5a Monitors.
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dke
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 15:01:44
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I think Melodyne Editor does a great job on creating harmonies. I also have a TC-Helicon VoiceWorks and I'd say ME does a better job with fewer artifacts, though not automatically in real time in the case of ME.
I don't use my lead vox for the harmonies though, I sing the harmonies that are within my range and then sing the harmony(s) that are too high for me as close as I can and then use ME to raise it as necessary. Even a full octave can work in a mix, and 3rd's, 5th's etc, can sound pretty much natural. I say can, because it does depend on the source material both how well it's sung and how cleanly it's recorded.
Dan
Sonar Platinum ( x64), Windows 10 x64, HP Envy i5 2.9GHZ, 8GB, Tascam 4x4 USB, BX5a Monitors.
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yorolpal
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 15:53:06
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Will I provide a Trax tutorial? No. Hell I don't even know how to use the thing properly. It scares me half to death. My honest advice is to NOT get it. One of these days Im gonna sit down and learn it. Probably. Maybe.
post edited by yorolpal - 2011/08/24 15:54:52
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Kreative
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Re:Anyone use Melodyne Editor with X1?
2011/08/24 22:30:36
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Jonathan: I think that you'll get natural sounding results for the simple harmonics. I never tried anything too radical with harmonies. And its been a few years since I've used Melodyne, and now have the newest version of Editor to experiment with.
I do plan on using it on vocal tracks again, because I was very satisfied with the results, before. It has serious potential. Its just a copy/ paste, drag and drop process.
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