Elffin


Having read so many threads asking for notation over the years and noticing the complete lack of response by Cakewalk I think we should forget hoping - we are only kidding ourselves...

I just can't understand Cakewalk's business model to be honest....
AVID are making real inroads to the education sector atm  which will mean more young people will become accustomed to Sibelius and ProTools.. Cakewalk will loose market share - why? teachers wil not choose Sonar since it has too basic notation facilities...

It boggles the mind.  They are touting Sonar as the "Best DAW in the world" when it is second rate in notation and video.

ProjectM

lfm

Jon Bryson


I also have wondered about rewire with Notion and Sonar. After they did that package deal awhile back I thought there would be tons of feedback on how that went but find surprisingly little.

But does rewire exist in x64 yet?

I read somthing at KVR that Propellerheads might have something coming though.

But now is now - and no rewire apps can be made , or?

Hey!
 
Rewire is not 64-bit yet, but it will be when Reason 6 is released in September. From there, all the other makers of Rewire hosts or slaves (or both) need to implement it into their software code. But Rewire is still powerfull between 32-bit applications so it's not entirely out of reach

Sibelius 7 is 64bit and they state it works with 32bit Rewire hosts.  Haven't tried it though.

To me great notation is the missing element in Sonar. It has been for ever. I am hoping X2 will give us notation on par with Logic and Cubase. 

+1 from me too. They should get this sorted out in the next release

I think a lot of people would be delighted if Sonar X1 had notation like previous versions with a few additions - nothing fancy - just the basics fixed, triplets, etc. Hell I'd even be happy if X1 notation was exactly the same as previous versions...at least then I could actually put notes in at a decent speed.

We definitely don't need dynamic markings or articulations, lines, nothing of the sort - just the bare bones basics with a staff view that snaps to musical values seperate from the rest of the project...then we export to Sibelius or the notation program of choice, no problem!

I also loved being able to use the numbers for note values, that really helped speed up my writing process...

Vintagevibe - "From the Sibelius 7 manual: Using the 64-bit version of Sibelius with ReWire ReWire is only available in 32-bit applications, because the underlying technology by Propellerhead Software has not yet been updated to 64-bit. However, because Sibelius uses an external component to manage its connection to the ReWire host, you can in fact run the 64-bit version of Sibelius and still use ReWire. " Wow!!! That is impressive! I didn't know that! Time to upgrade then maybe. Rewireing Sibelius is sorely missed! Thanks for the info buddy And sorry for the poor quoting... FF6 here ---------------------- EDIT: realized that Sonar 64-bit can't handle 32-bit Rewire... he he, doesn't get me any further But still, good on Sibelius! It's pretty cool!

I think a lot of people would be delighted if Sonar X1 had notation like previous versions with a few additions - n

ProjectM


While on the topic... or something... I have a question: What would be best 1.) A revamped, fully functioning Notation view or 2.) A deep audio editor, like a built in Sound Forge or Wavelap in Sonar? Sonar can do both but not on a deep level. Both notation and deep audio editing can be achieved with an additional software package...

3)  Just fix a couple of things with the existing staff view - however, based on what I understand to be the unmaintainable code base for the staff view, I think anything we would consider to be a small fix would be a huge rewrite of the the staff view for Cakewalk.


"Both notation and deep audio editing can be achieved with an additional software package... " - an external notation program is going to help those who want to print after their composition is finished.  For those who use notation for inputting and editing of MIDI data, switching back and forth between Sonar and a notation program would be a pain.  Integration is key.

Although, I can't speak for those who would like to have an integrated destructive audio editor.  They probably feel the same way.

ProjectM


Vintagevibe - "From the Sibelius 7 manual: Using the 64-bit version of Sibelius with ReWire ReWire is only available in 32-bit applications, because the underlying technology by Propellerhead Software has not yet been updated to 64-bit. However, because Sibelius uses an external component to manage its connection to the ReWire host, you can in fact run the 64-bit version of Sibelius and still use ReWire. " Wow!!! That is impressive! I didn't know that! Time to upgrade then maybe. Rewireing Sibelius is sorely missed! Thanks for the info buddy And sorry for the poor quoting... FF6 here ---------------------- EDIT: realized that Sonar 64-bit can't handle 32-bit Rewire... he he, doesn't get me any further But still, good on Sibelius! It's pretty cool!

It sounds pretty cool but Rewire has always been flakey for me with Sibelius and Sonar - even with the 7.0 demo.  I've never had the time to do any seroius trouble shooting so I don't know why.  Notions is akways rock solid rewired to Sonar on the same system.   I'll upgrade to Sibelus 7 just for the 64bit and better mixer and continue to use Notion to rewire if I have to.  It's still all a cumbersome workaround until Sonar has decent notation.  My dream is to compose only in Sonar and export XML to Sibelius to make a good looking score.  Sadley Cakewalk doesn't seem to care about notation.

As far as entering notes in staff view, you can still make it fast with X1; use key binding--w for whole, h for half, q for quarter, e for eighth, s for sixteenth, t for thirty second notes.   Then use shift for triplets and ctrl for dotted notes. 

That's how I set it up until I realized the staff view's instrument pane is useless now that they removed the active track function.  I took X1 off my hard drive and am happily using Sonar 7 64 bit on a fast win 7 machine with 64 bit.  Everything working great now. I'll use Sonar 7 for the next 5 years or so.  Probably won't buy another Cakewalk DAW unless they start getting serious about selling software to serious composers, which they probably never will.  Keyboard magazine said it best--X1 producer is really designed for beginners, it looks all pretty and clean, but most of us know it doesn't compare to the functionality and stability of earlier versions.  I've done 11 albums with Cakewalk.  X1 is still not ready for prime time, not by a long shot.  I had some idiot (won't mention who) who disputed my professional level skills because I only use one platform.   He doesn't know what he's talking about--when one finds a platform that works,  my philosophy is to stay with it and work on the craft, aesthetics and expression of musical creativity.  Sonar 7 works for me and if Cakewalk ever gets its act together with X1 in terms of stability and functionality (compared to earlier versions) then I will reconsider.

Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com/fivepiecesforvi1.htm
www.jerrygerber.com

jsg


As far as entering notes in staff view, you can still make it fast with X1; use key binding--w for whole, h for half, q for quarter, e for eighth, s for sixteenth, t for thirty second notes.   Then use shift for triplets and ctrl for dotted notes. 

That's how I set it up until I realized the staff view's instrument pane is useless now that they removed the active track function.  I took X1 off my hard drive and am happily using Sonar 7 64 bit on a fast win 7 machine with 64 bit.  Everything working great now. I'll use Sonar 7 for the next 5 years or so.  Probably won't buy another Cakewalk DAW unless they start getting serious about selling software to serious composers, which they probably never will.  Keyboard magazine said it best--X1 producer is really designed for beginners, it looks all pretty and clean, but most of us know it doesn't compare to the functionality and stability of earlier versions.  I've done 11 albums with Cakewalk.  X1 is still not ready for prime time, not by a long shot.  I had some idiot (won't mention who) who disputed my professional level skills because I only use one platform.   He doesn't know what he's talking about--when one finds a platform that works,  my philosophy is to stay with it and work on the craft, aesthetics and expression of musical creativity.  Sonar 7 works for me and if Cakewalk ever gets its act together with X1 in terms of stability and functionality (compared to earlier versions) then I will reconsider.

Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com/fivepiecesforvi1.htm
www.jerrygerber.com

Some interesting points there.  
 
As for the inputting problems, I did consider rebinding the keys in X1 but didn't get round to it and settled with using MIDI kbd input via Step Record (usng a workaround for a bug which prevents input of more than 3 consecutive 8ths or smaller).  Using Step Record means I can use the number pad to change durations and the keyboard to choose notes.   On the QWERTY inputting in X1 the problem for me wasn't so much the extra clicks for note durations (the number pad works for this in Step Record) the main problem was the removed toggle between draw and erase - pressing 'e' and 'd' with one had while drawing notes in with the mouse and changing durations with the number pad was very quick. 
 
I also can see why that reviewer got the impression that Sonar is aiming for beginners, at least in a musical sense  - there seems to be a lot of emphasis on attracting, and catering for, people who are happy to 'create' music by pasting in loops or playing a chord and popping an arpeggiator on.  That kind of approach is definitely getting more attention from the developers with each new version, which doesn't bode well.
 
 

Elffin


Having read so many threads asking for notation over the years and noticing the complete lack of response by Cakewalk I think we should forget hoping - we are only kidding ourselves...

I hear you... and you may be completely right.