I don't quite understand all the anti-firewire posts.  I have 3 firewire interfaces: Tascam DM4800, MOTU 896, and (2) Focusrite Saffire PRO40.  All are running at 96k and run extensive data both ways at the same time.  All work flawlessly on 3 different computers including that is 8 years old.  Two are running Win7 and the old one is running XP Professional.  In fact, I have two of the Saffire Pro's running at 96k on the same computer at the same time.

There are generally 3 main problems with firewire.
1. Cheap firewire controllers. Most firewire chips on the motherboard are cheap. If they are NEC, then you should run off screaming like a little girl.  TI is still the best.  All 3 of my systems have TI chips and run flawlessly.
2. Too many things on the same firewire bus.  Even if your system has multiple firewire ports, typically motherboards only have one firewire controller.  As a result, your actual bandwidth can be reduced if you have many other firewire devices like hard drives plugged in. In a "Tower" Desktop, just install multiple PCI/PCIe cards. I have 3 in my main tracking computer. One for the interface, one for the streaming drive, and one for the backup drive.
3. If you have Windows 7, please please please revert back to the "Legacy" driver.  None of my firewire interfaces work on the "new and improved" firewire driver. None.

I can't resist any chance to "bash" USB 2.0.  I got nothing but stuttering and dropouts on USB at 96k.  On firewire, the same interface has yet to drop out (MOTU 896). While USB 2.0 has a higher bandwidth, this is only in theory.  In practice, USB performance can be limited, especially if you have many other USB devices.

Though it was tested on MAC, i've found the same to be true on PCs:
http://www.macworld.com/article/145224/2009/12/firewire_usb.html

In practice, Firewire is usually faster than USB2.0 though the USB has a higher "possible" speed. Maybe USB 3.0 is better.

Love my Pro40. I am still running 2.2... Very stable and the Mic pre's are incredible...

There was a time just after I went to 64-bits when I was looking at different firewire chipsets because of system instability, but when I ran the DPC latency checker, I noticed there was a consistent spike about every 4 seconds. I noticed a definite link between the timing of the spikes and my dropouts.  I disconnected all my hardware and reconnected everything 1 at a time. Turns out the spike was coming from my MOTU Fastlane midi interface. It was an older model and I'm guessing it didn't like the 64 bit environment on my newer machine. Exclusively using the Pro40's midi ports solved the spiking issue.

The other issue that caused dropouts was that for some reason, when I upgraded to X1, my folder options (per project / audio / pic cache / etc. / not to mention the cakewalk program files) were all located/assigned on the c:drive. I had 3 hard drives and had somehow overlooked it. When I transferred my per-project folders to my second hard drive it was like a different machine. I've experienced excellent stability since. I still can't believe it  made that much difference.

I guess my point is that what I assumed at the time were firewire issues turned out to be fairly simple fixes that weren't related to firewire at all. Of course, this is only my experience, YMMV.

I would definitely use the v2.2 drivers though...

Good luck,
Vernon

DonaldDuck

lfm

DonaldDuck


I don't quite understand all the anti-firewire posts. 
.

Just out of curiosity - what is your cpu consumption just starting Windows 7 and fire up one or two Pro 40's?
No host software at all is needed. Usually you see one core go high.

When I did this 20%(60% on one core) of my new i7 was used up just when I powered up audio interface. First it was an Impact Twin from TC Electronics, then a Focusrite Pro 40.

Legacy drivers and turning of stuff in bios like core parking and dynamic overclocking made it run 7%(20% on one core).

Since I run RME Internal card which let me use all of this cpu to software I run instead - why bother with firewire?

Maybe you understand my concern now. And since I struggled one evening with now knowing why it did not run, and audio came and went - finding that a tiny bend on cables from table a little bit too much towards the wall caused this - maybe you understand why I feel it's simply poor technology for chosen connectors.

I bought a tried 4 different firewire interfaces, 3 PCI Express and one PCI, 3 were TI chips and one VIA. I bought three brands of cables too see where it lead to. So I gave it a fair chance - and just felt this is not 21st century technology.

Just my view of it all.

I would love to tell you about how Win7 works with Focusrite gear, but I cannot since my Focusrite is connected to my Win XP system.  I can tell you there is no spike of any kind.  With no major software running and both devices on at 96k, I'm steady at about 4-5% CPU usage. That isn't bad for such an old computer.
 
While you do have a point about it not working properly on YOUR system, you seem to be blaming firewire when, in reality, there appears to be some problem with Focusrite's drivers... not firewire itself.  I know that none of my other non-Focusrite devices have the problems you describe either.  Clearly, firewire isn't the problem as I use firewire with them all. 
 
Also, you said you use an RME Internal card... so you have a dedicated PCI or PCIe card? RME makes quite good drivers from what I've heard.  My drummer uses the Fireface with no problems.  Mathematically speaking, the RME internal card should handle huge amounts of data better since both PCI and PCIe are loads faster than firewire (and usb 2.0 for that matter).  This is why that both PCI and PCIe  fireware cards run at the same speed... That being said, firewire is still very fast... fast enough to handle 64 channels of 96k audio (32 channels each way) on my system with no problems.  In fact, the 8 year old computer sends 16 channels of 96k audio both ways via firewire with no problems....
 
Most interface problems are caused by crappy drivers.  I'm not sure if these interface makers got the memo on how to make drivers for Win 7, especially for 64bit. Firewire, Sonar, nor the cable is to blame in most cases.

Thanks, that's very interesting to hear. I ran firewire stuff on my old P4 2.8(with HT) on XP as well, 32bit then and it was about 4% i.e half of what the new w7 i7-machine did. So it seems they overdid something in W7 regarding this. And that everybody find that reverting to legacy firewire drivers confirms that they overdid something. Maybe ensuring hispeed secure transfer with no thought of high much cpu that would take.

There were about 4500 contextswitches/sec which is a lot. No wonder it consumes cpu. To nontechnitians this means that the drivers and bus for firewire wants access 4500 times/sec(0.22 ms intervals). Check out any other application like storing to disk heavily etc and it's nowhere near these figures, and it will be in short bursts - not continuously like audio on firewire.

I contacted Focusrite about this - and wondered if there were a way to turn off inputs and outputs that were not used to lower impact on system - but they said it was not.

They implied that it's poor MB on my computer for this kind of application. They recommend Giga boards.

My conclusion is still that the interface as such is poor design - and connectors chosen too are really bad and sensitive to bends. And it seems not be designed for realtime application - rather burst kind of storage operations like disk and videocameras where realtime is not needed.

I felt that it was working with Sonar and Pro40, but it would be painting yourself into a corner chosing firewire as base for the new daw, and in this case 55dB preamps were not enough for my favourite mike so I would have to buy other preamps too.

I chose the simpler RME HDSP 9632(and addon board 4 extra inputs) which is PCI just because I found it second hand, but the HDSP AIO with PCIe would be the fullsize alternative. But I'm just a small hobbyist still - but aiming for doing fulltime producing within 6 month and so for a couple of years, so it's serious in that sense.

My overall feel is that USB is what every developer is trying to refine, if anything external. I don't think there are a next generation firewire at all.

Before moving W7 or W8 I would test thoroughly before going through with it. It seems that XP 32-bit still is better. I would go RME or Lynx internal cards for full studio gear.

I've never had a single second of a problem with my Saffire Pro 26IO running on Firewire, and that experience is now spanning 2 DAWs - a Q6700 running under XP32 SP2 & 3, and a  new i7 3930X under Win 7 64 bit.

Core 1 on the i7 registers at a tad over 2% when idling.