??? I do not "Think" (I could be wrong here) there is a software interface....I would just have to control it from sonar in the output sections.......Unless that is what you are referring to.....then I understand...

Yes I sort of meant either or, Some interfaces have a cool GUI control panel complete with all the virtual controls. Then there is what Sonar shows as Master output or whatever there called, Mine only shows 4 and I would imagine yours shows all 8. The down side of those is when the Poo hits the fan and your system screams at you they are hard to get at , I like a PANIC! slider therefor the nice knob on the Tascam or my mixer.  I can see this is where you were going with the Atty.
I think for now why don't you remove the Atty and use one set of monitors,( Yamaha HS 80's ) There's patching in the back of your sub to accommodate that basic system. ( I think) You then could hook the other monitors to your 3/4 outputs and flip over to them using the Sonar controls. It's not like your going to be doing this a lot right?
You can therefore use the "only" knob on the interface as a PANIC turn down solution. Just remember which way to turn it ha ha... this will cost "zero" my favorite price point.

sock monkey


??? I do not "Think" (I could be wrong here) there is a software interface....I would just have to control it from sonar in the output sections.......Unless that is what you are referring to.....then I understand...

Yes I sort of meant either or, Some interfaces have a cool GUI control panel complete with all the virtual controls. Then there is what Sonar shows as Master output or whatever there called, Mine only shows 4 and I would imagine yours shows all 8. The down side of those is when the Poo hits the fan and your system screams at you they are hard to get at , I like a PANIC! slider therefor the nice knob on the Tascam or my mixer.  I can see this is where you were going with the Atty.
I think for now why don't you remove the Atty and use one set of monitors,( Yamaha HS 80's ) There's patching in the back of your sub to accommodate that basic system. ( I think) You then could hook the other monitors to your 3/4 outputs and flip over to them using the Sonar controls. It's not like your going to be doing this a lot right?
You can therefore use the "only" knob on the interface as a PANIC turn down solution. Just remember which way to turn it ha ha... this will cost "zero" my favorite price point.
 
 

Well .....It would not be zero for the price......because if I came out of the FA-101 and went direct to my monitors (to bypass the Atty) I would then "Have " to buy adaptors....to switch from XLR Style monitor cables to the 1/4 jack style of the FA-101.
 
In other words, the FA-101 has outputs in the female 1/4 style which I would want to use TRS male, Balanced jacks but the ends of the monitor cables are XLR (not sure of the gender..I would have to look) but they are balanced....so I would have to buy and adaptor to go from the XLR style to the 1/4 style....and I would need 5 of them...(One for each monitor)
 
Once these are adapted I would then have the same main output to the HS 80's but I would need to put sends on the main buss to go to my MSP 5's and sub......which would not be the worst thing in the world......but to control the volume It would all have to be done by Sonar's Main outputs for each set of monitors....
 
 
Even so this still leaves us the basic quesiton.....
Procedure wise.....
 
"How do I use that pink noise track to calabrate my monitors?"
 
Meaning.....
I insert the pink noise track into sonar....(well I still have it)
Now this track is hot. it does go over 0db
so do I pull the individual track down until I reach 0db in the track meter? or the master buss meter? or the Main output meter?
 
Now if I do that, When I go to mix a project for real how do I know where true 0 db really is?
 
ok past that now then do I adjust my monitor level to 85 db?
 
See, I am still cnofused about all this....and this brings us full circle back to where we started long, long ago.
 
Sorry
 
Clifford

If you have and use highend converts make sure you use PASSIVE Control only!!!


This company do passive controls for your setup that guarantee that it will not affect or degrade your audio

http://www.smproaudio.com/index.php/en

Truckermusic

Shadow of The Wind


So, if the L/R balance is off with the ATTY and it is okay with a direct cable connectionen, then either the cables or the ATTY are broken.
 
I have the feeling that it is the ATTY....if it was the cables then there would be a difference even after bypassing the atty...
In the latter case, you should return the unit.
 
OK.....but do you think Sweetwater will take it back? Now it is over 5 years old...However....it is in absolute mint condition because once I installed it in my rack it has "Never" moved anywhere...it has only been in my studio and that is it.......Also, I really do not like my sweetwater salesman....and he knows it....in fact because of him I do not buy there any more unless I absolutely have no other choice....But I have bought "a lot" of merchandise from them over the past 6 years.
No, they won't. You could ask the manufacturer.
 
Your interface supports 24bit. If all levels are set correctly, 16 bits are sufficient for your ears. So, you have 8 bits or 48 dB to play with.
 
and here is the point....."If all levels are set correctly" this is exactly what started this thread.....I am positive they are not and I would love to know how to correct this....
 
Let's assume your levels are not set perfectly (you never quite reach 0 dB, maybe -6 dB=1 bit)
 
How would I know this?
Look at the level meter of the output section in Sonar or at the LEDs on you interface.
 
and your interface is not perfect (you only have 22 bits)
 
How would I know this? (I leave my FA-101 set at 24 bit , I never move it)
Sometimes the specs tell you the number of effective bits. If the interface e.g. produces as much noise as the lower two bits cover in signal level, the effective number of bits is two bits less than the number of bits of the DA-converter. (This explanation may not be exactly accurate...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_number_of_bits
 
and you do not have analog volume control between the interface and the monitors.
 
Atty Removed.
 
Then, you still have 5 bits or 30 dB left to play with.
 
OK I see your logic here....I just do not know how you got there...Sorry
 
So, if you set the volume control of your speakers (on the back of the speakers? Exactly. ) such that pink noise at 0 dB (as shown by the level meters Sonar or the Interface) 
 
In Sonar? See there are just too many adjustment point in the signal chain. Meaning, On the back of the speakers, In the Main outputs in Sonar, in the Master Buss of Sonar and in the Track view in Sonar......I do not mean to make this complicated. Sorry.
 
is the loudest you would ever like to hear, you could reduce the volume in Sonar (in the digital domain) by 30 dB without sacrificing sound quality.
 
After reading this I think I may understand what you are trying to say....but not 100% sure though...
(This requires you to actually run the interface in 24bit mode.) If you are fine with 30 dB of maximum volume reduction and this is all you want from a monitor controller, then you don't need one.
I would be ok with this......the reason for the Atty was because It made it very easy to adjust vol. levels for listening, switching monitor sets and just muting everything......
I totally understand that that was the intent. It just seems that it is not working for you. So, you should first try without a monitor control. If you get it to work correctly without a monitor controller, you can then pick one, and you should be able to tell whether it is doing its job.
Wilko

sock monkey


I don't understand one thing, you must already have a TRS to XLR cable that runs from your FA 101 to the ADDY, right.
 
Yes I do.....they are only 1 foot long since my FA-101 is in my rack mount and so is the Atty.
 
Cables are not expensive and a studio need lots of them, this will always be money well spent.
 
Yes I agree with you.....when I originally put my studio together I bought what I considered the best cables I could afford....(all Monster cables)....I bought each cable for a specific application and once installed the only cable that gets any kind of movement are my Mic (1) cable and my guitar cable (1))
 
However I do not agree that they were inexpensive......I think on just cables alone I spent around $400....so to go and reconfigure with new cables.....at that kind of expense I am just kind of balking......
 
Also, I do not let anyone else in my studio but me.....so I am a not for hire kind of guy.....this is my obsession.....(not passion...) so I feel I do not need much more than what I have......
Avoid adapters as they are just another place where dirt and stuff can degrade the signal path. 
Use the proper cables. In your system you can use TRS to TRS, TRS to XLR. All are balanced.
 
See above.....

For short runs, say less than 12 ' there is nothing wrong with standard, good quality, 1/4 unbalanced  cables. They will sound the same. Balanced cables are to eliminate RF interference and it's a misconception that they "sound better". No, just potentially less interference form RF energy. 
 
i bought balanced cables because 85% of all my cables are in my 4 unit rack....so there is a cluster in there and all the sheilding I can get is a good thing....the rest of my cables run to the monitors, mic guitar. etc...

Sorry I cannot explain using pink noise to calibrate monitors, just something I've  have never had to do. All I can say is you run some kind of track, pink noise or Pink Floyd. Set the track output to unity ( zero) set the Mains to unity, and then in your case the control on the back of the monitor to the loudest volume you work with. Somewhere there's a thread here about using some method with a $10 name to it. I just went looking and cant find it,, I thought it was mr Evans.
 
OK, Well I will try to search it out.....
Thank s for your help any way..
Clifford 

Well now....

I ordered adaptors.....for $45 bucks and no shipping I figure is a cheap way to find some stuff out here....

I needed 6 of them puppies that is why $45....The should be here next week....when they show up I will then by pass the atty....

I will work for a few weeks with this set up and if I like it then I will decide to either continue working this way or I sell the atty (which may happen either way) and use the funds to help pay for a Presonus Monitor Central rack unit.

I will let you know how it works out,.

Clifford

Hi All........

I think I've solved this issue....Not that I understand it any better mind you .....

Like I said yesterday, I ordered the Mackie Big Knob last week and it will be here tonite when I get home.....

Well I went out on line and downloaded the PDF Manual and started to read......Pages 4,5 and 6 were VERY informative......in fact it is the last piece of the puzzle...

It seems that a +4 dBu is considered a "Professional" signal ( a little Hotter Signal) than a
-10 db signal (consumer). Well that is what I brought home from it anyway....

Since we have been dissucussing this topic I have gone out and downloaded "all" my manuals. the Interface : Edriol FA-101, The Mackie Big Knob, the Yamaha's HS80m's, the MSP5's, the HS10W (sub) and the MSP3.

After Reading very slowly and carefully and tracing the signal (via Paper work) here is what I think I am going to end up with . "A system that runs on the +4 signal path"

My reasoning for this deduction:
My Edirol FA-101's output signal is +4,
the Mackie Big Knob gives a (switchable) choice of running at either +4 or -10 (so I will be choosing +4) the choice of Professional's  LOL
All my monitors will recieve / output at +4 by using balanced cables (which is what they have) and a choice of level controls.

So the only thing I do not know is what kind of signal is my DAW putting out.I am using the Edirol FA-101 because I am using Firewire and ASIO drivers...so I am not sure if that is really going to matter....Yes?   No?

so any way, I have high hopes that this will be my solution because the Atty did not have a choice of signals and does not say what signal it runs on and there is where I think my issue was..

I do not think I will get around to hooking it up for a couple of more days becasue I am at the final stages of a new track and it is not good to switch gears in mid stream....but I am thinking that more than likely it will be Friday nite when it gets done....

I will let you know..
Clifford

This is just on the market, Any one who knows the company would trust this gizmo to be excellent. http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/mc3.php

Glad you got it all sorted out Trucker. Do the next guy a favor though. Don't sell the unit if it's not working right, see if Sweetwater will deal with it properly.

Cactus Music


This is just on the market, Any one who knows the company would trust this gizmo to be excellent. http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/mc3.php

OH Now you tell me!!!   LOL  )Kidding here sir)
Yep this does look like a very sweet unit....
 
However I looked (but that does not mean I did not miss it) on the spec sheet and in Owner's Manual and it does not state which system it operates at... meaning +4 or -10 so that would be one thing I would NOW want to know...
 
Also I am a little unsure about running a balaced system with an unbalanced sub.....but hey if it works then fine..
 
Lastly I could not find a price on it....so I would want to know that as well...of course  (but I will check Sweet water and GC to see if they list a price)
 
However that being said.....I think that this is on the right track. I like the features of it and I can even see adding it to my rig......especially for the sub......(even if it does run unbalanced) .....
 
I especially love the fact that you can just hit a button and it will sum it up to mono...I think that is a great idea....simple , quick , clean and bam there you have it.....
 
so all in all... I will look into maybe adding it to my rig....but that may happen in a bit....
 
thanks for showing me this.
 
Clifford

Good to hear you are now getting to hear! Properly. And yes please do not tell us who you sell the atty to, Put it on Russian Ebay or something... ;) The Radial is a nice unit. They seem to make one of the worlds best DI boxes so I would trust this unit is in the same league, It's passive so it is irrelevant which voltage, You put +4 in you get +4 out. The price is $249usd List. I like the little set screws. Keeps small monkeys from tampering.