Kev999
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Re:Difference between Volume and Gain and how to use them
2012/03/10 20:49:18
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It is probably fair to say that volume and gain controls do the same thing, except that they work at different points along the signal path. A good clear diagram would illustrate this best. Unfortunately I could only find this one, which appears to be out-of-date: http://bluetrip.com/image...g/Sonar6SignalFlow.jpg
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jrfrogers
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Re:Difference between Volume and Gain and how to use them
2012/03/11 23:05:46
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☄ Helpful
Thanks for getting this going Sharpdion23. It's been very helpful to me. I hope for you too.
I'm just learning to mix and here a three great things (among lot's of good reading) I got from this thread that are helping me mix with more control. I apply the comment from batsbrew first, then apply bitflipper's technique, then droddey's comment. I included Cakewalk's intentions on the use of the trim control also.
Number 1) batsbrew said:
the best place to adjust input levels, is at the output of your interface, whether it's a mixer, a microphone preamp, or other.......
Number 2) bitflipper said:
I use SONAR's gain/trim control to get an initial rough mix, so each track is in the approximate ballpark volume-wise. It's important to do this before applying any compressors, as subsequent adjustments to the gain/trim will affect the compressor's threshold setting.
Cakewalk X1 Reference Guide
Trim (volume trim) (Track Inspector and Console viewonly)
Volume Trim is a pre-fader control which allows the fine tuning of a single
track’s volume.
For example, let’s say you have four tracks, three tracks have their volume
fader set to 0 dB while the fourth track’s fader is set to +10 dB. You want to
group the faders and do a slow fade out, but the slightly higher level of the
fourth track causes its volume to be higher in relation to the other tracks
towards the end of the fade out. To balance the fader levels, reduce the fader
level for the fourth track to 0 dB and raise the Volume Trim value for that track to
+10 dB. The resulting volume levels for the project are the same, but now you
can group the faders and perform a fade out with no track standing out
disproportionately at the end of the fade out.
AND
Adjusting volume trim
Volume Trim acts like the trim control on a mixer, raising or lower the level prior to the volume fader.
Volume trim is useful for calibrating your faders to match a dB reference level or for aligning your
faders for grouping. The Volume Trim control has a range of -18dB to +18dB. Raising or lowering
the Volume Trim raises or lowers the apparent volume of the track by that amount without affecting
the actual fader level.
Number 3) droddey said:
There's a good argument that you should, on each thing in the f/x big, use its makeup gain to get the track level back to where it was before the f/x was applied. This way, you can easily do A/B comparisons by just bypassing each f/x and the track level won't change substantially. So you can quickly get a feel for how the application of each f/x is affecting the signal, and you also don't affect the level of signal that any subsequent f/x on that track will see, which might also change the sound a lot, making it hard to A/B.
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Truckermusic
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Re:Difference between Volume and Gain and how to use them
2012/03/12 10:53:06
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batsbrew
How do you adjust your input levels?
the best place to adjust input levels, is at the output of your interface, whether it's a mixer, a microphone preamp, or other.......
you want the optimum gain setting on the input.... for clean capture.
then you want the optimum OUTPUT level...
this is all the voodoo art of 'gain staging'.
pay attention to +-4 and -10
Bats how about explaining about the + -4 / -10 some more. I have seen this and do not understand why these numbers are important. I know that they are marked on my monitors and are mentioned in my Edirol interface manual. but no one has been able to explain to me why these are improtant. Clifford
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batsbrew
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Re:Difference between Volume and Gain and how to use them
2012/03/12 11:03:34
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line-level= Standard +4 dBu or -10 dBV audio levels
pro audio de facto standard line-level is +4 dBu;
+4 dBu Standard pro audio voltage reference level equal to 1.23 Vrms.
-10 dBV Standard voltage reference level for consumer and some pro audio use (e.g. TASCAM), equal to 0.316 Vrms. (Tip: RCA connectors are a good indicator of units operating at -10 dBV levels.)
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Truckermusic
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Re:Difference between Volume and Gain and how to use them
2012/03/12 12:03:18
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batsbrew
line-level= Standard +4 dBu or -10 dBV audio levels
pro audio de facto standard line-level is +4 dBu;
+4 dBu Standard pro audio voltage reference level equal to 1.23 Vrms.
-10 dBV Standard voltage reference level for consumer and some pro audio use (e.g. TASCAM), equal to 0.316 Vrms. (Tip: RCA connectors are a good indicator of units operating at -10 dBV levels.)
Bat Thank you I Hate to be stupid....but....I do not know..... I understand what your saying but I do not understand how that relates to (I guess) my system? Or how it should be relating to my system .... I also know that it has something to do with setting up your monitor system and this is a hot topic for me right now cause I am struggling to understand it. Reason being: I am having this very disscussion in the hardware forum concerning my monitor management and this seems to be a direct link...... and I am missing the connection here... could you please take a look and maybe provide some more insight? Please? thank you Clifford
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droddey
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Re:Difference between Volume and Gain and how to use them
2012/03/12 16:36:41
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Unless you've got some consumer level stuff, proably everything is going to be +4, and therefore nothing much to worry about. Make sure your converters are set up for +4 if they have a +4/-10 configuration option, and some do. If they are lower end converters it's possible they may have come from the factory set up for -10, on the assumption they'd be used with lower end consumer stuff or something. Probably not but check if you never have.
Not that anything will blow up if you don't, but it's best to have everything set up for the same standard.
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Truckermusic
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Re:Difference between Volume and Gain and how to use them
2012/03/13 07:51:59
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droddey
Unless you've got some consumer level stuff, proably everything is going to be +4, and therefore nothing much to worry about. Make sure your converters are set up for +4 if they have a +4/-10 configuration option, and some do. If they are lower end converters it's possible they may have come from the factory set up for -10, on the assumption they'd be used with lower end consumer stuff or something. Probably not but check if you never have.
Not that anything will blow up if you don't, but it's best to have everything set up for the same standard.
Droddey....( in the next reply I provide a link to a sonar thread that I explain what has become clear to me) this is good information............However.....there may be even more than one step I am not understanding here..... because this is exactly what I am in the middle of trying to do....only I do not understand....I hate to be stupid here but I do not.....I have a very long thread going on in the hardware forum labeled "monitor Managenment" which is outlining a lot of this confusion (with my setup and gear) only I still do not get it.... When you talk about converters I "think" I know what your talking about.....but I would rather run the line of "I do not" so could you please explain further..... Or if you would like to carry this conversation on with PM's that would be fine with me.... because I know this all has to do with setting up your system correctly (which has NOT been done) yet I have looked extensively at my manuals for my Audio interface, (my new Mackie Big Knob coming tonite) my speakers etc...and they all talk about this +4 / -10 thing and they are all compatiable with this I do know but what I do not know is how to make sure that everything is in sync with either +4 or -10..... Or do I have this all backwards....???? Clifford
post edited by Truckermusic - 2012/03/13 15:37:19
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Truckermusic
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Re:Difference between Volume and Gain and how to use them
2012/03/13 15:35:09
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