ido1957
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 36
- Joined: 2007/10/17 22:53:48
- Status: offline
Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
I'm currently looking into using my hardware preamp/comp and reverb unit with my Sonar 6.0 software. More on that later... So I opened my Audio Options panel tonight and discovered it was set to WDM. I guess when I bought this laptop last year it must have defaulted to that (Sonar worked fine after the install so I just missed this I guess  ). There's a couple of differences in the settings that I'd appreciate anyone's advice on impact etc: 1) The WDM was set to an audio bit depth of 16, ASIO defaults to 24. Does this mean that everything I recorded was at 16bit. I exported recorded tracks as 24 bit for mastering so what's the impact if any? (my pic shows 24 after I switched it for the pic but it was 16 when I opened it). 2) The playback timing master in WDM shows 1/2 and 3/4 whereas ASIO shows Main Left/SPDIF Left. What does this mean and what is the difference? 3) The recording timing master is also different... 4) The Driver panel - WDM INPUT 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 WDM OUTPUT 1/2, 3/4 ASIO INPUT Mic/Line/Inst 1, Mic/Line 3, SPDIF Left ASIO OUTPUT Main Left, SPDIF Left Bit of a difference there which I don't understand because ASIO seems to be missing the right side or inputs 2 and 4 ??? Or is it there implicitly? And is 5/6 WDM supposed to be the SPDIF? So my U42S has 4 mic/line combo inputs and SPDIF in/out and MIDI In/Out I switched and left it in ASIO now as that was what I had when I originally bought the U42S. It sends signal to the main outs L/R in stereo okay in ASIO ( I haven't tested the inputs just yet but I expect they are fine... I wish I had print screend my original settings in ASIO on my old laptop so I could tell if this was normal. So if anyone can explain the differences in the settings and whether they look okay would be appreciated. Not too much Sonar/U42S setting info out there in Google land. My next question is regarding the routing to use my hardware. My Google searching shows send the original track through a BUS and then send the BUS to an output then the output to the hardware line in. Then send the hardware output back into an input and record it on a new track, sliding for anticipated latency. As I only (in ASIO) have one output I can use (MAIN LEFT) should I set the MASTER out to "None" , set the BUS to MAIN LEFT ? (Then reset MASTER for mixing later of couse). This sounds right but I would like to double check this before I blow something up  . I have some nice hardware although I know plugins are getting better .... Thanks in advance.... PICS of screens in links below: http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee28/ido1957/Sonar6WDMPanel.jpg http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee28/ido1957/Sonar6ASIOPanel.jpg
|
strikinglyhandsome1
Max Output Level: -3 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7224
- Joined: 2006/11/15 09:21:12
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/03 15:41:19
(permalink)
I'd say it's just the way it is named. You can open a track and see what the input options are on the track and shove a mic in input 2 and test it. Quite often things are named 1,3,5 etc with no reference to 2,4,6. Sometimes s/pdif is given a number like 5/6 rather than the name. It's easy to test though if you're in doubt.
You can edit the names on the 'friendly name' side and tick the box and name them to suit yourself. Then have a look how it appears in Sonar pn a track input.
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/03 16:03:05
(permalink)
it's not missing anything - it's just the way it's named. your drivers dictate what shows up in sonar.
when you go to select an input in sonar, you'll have the following types of choices (may not be exact)
ASIO1 L = left (channel 1)
ASIO1 R = right (channel 2)
ASIO1 Stereo = Stereo (channel 1+2)
ASIO3 L = left (channel 3)
ASIO3 R = right (channel 4)
ASIO3 Stereo = sterel (channel 3+4)
etc. same for the outputs.
|
ido1957
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 36
- Joined: 2007/10/17 22:53:48
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/03 16:30:54
(permalink)
Thanks for the responses - very helpful so far. Now if anyone can help with my driver bit rate and routing questions? :D
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/03 16:58:40
(permalink)
|
BluesMeister
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 581
- Joined: 2003/11/07 19:45:25
- Location: Downunderland
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/03 23:22:22
(permalink)
Beagle, the OP wants to check round-trip latency by sending and returning a signal.
BluesMeister 5 guitars, 1 amplifier, 3 pedals Asus P8P67LE, i7 3.4GHz, 16GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB HDD
Win7 Home Premium 64-Bit SP-1
Sonar 8.5.3 64-Bit, RME HDSPe AIO
Spendor BC-1 Studio Monitors
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/04 06:50:47
(permalink)
Ah, thanks for clearning that up. ido1957, read this thread and further down in the thread, there's a link to Centrance utility for measuring real total roundtrip. http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2453415 as they mention in that thread, tho, it's usually not necessary to measure it - brundlefly's difference from sonar's reported round trip and centrance's round trip is only 4 samples. at 44.1kHz, that's only .0000227 seconds. you won't notice that.
|
7-string_guy
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 430
- Joined: 2008/04/18 20:05:58
- Location: Earth, I think
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/04 08:09:06
(permalink)
I used Wdm drivers before. You can change the setting to 16 to 24. Go to the global tab under audio I believe. I just recently changed over to Asio. I don't notice a difference. I just changed from delta 1010lt to a Fireface 400
I7 2600k 3.4g on a ASUS MB with 16 gb of ram FireFace 400 AI / Sonar 8.5 Producer / ToonTrack Superior Drummer 2 Alesis M1 Active MKII / Ibanez 7 string / Fender Super-Sonic Schecter studio 5 bass / Boss Dr. Rhythm 880 , also Yamaha DTX full rack drum pad trigger system
|
kaiwei
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3
- Joined: 2012/04/04 10:13:34
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/04 10:15:49
(permalink)
your drivers dictate what shows up in sonar. 
|
ido1957
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 36
- Joined: 2007/10/17 22:53:48
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/04 11:38:42
(permalink)
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/05 06:42:11
(permalink)
ok, you can do that. which version of sonar do you have? EXTERNAL INSERTS were available starting with Sonar 6 or 7. it allows you to use your hardware as an insert on a track. I haven't used it myself, but that's the specific purpose it's for. EDIT: I just checked Sonar 6 didn't have it, but Sonar 8 did. I didn't own Sonar 7.
post edited by Beagle - 2012/04/05 06:45:36
|
Kev999
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3922
- Joined: 2007/05/01 14:22:54
- Location: Victoria, Australia
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/05 08:10:07
(permalink)
Beagle
EXTERNAL INSERTS were available starting with Sonar 6 or 7.
It was 7.
SonarPlatinum∞(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
Having fun at work lately
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/06 14:34:23
(permalink)
Looks like he's using Sonar 6 so cannot use the insert function, but OP, you are correct in just using output to inputs but do not turn on input echo to avoid feedback loop. There should be no latency if Sonar is doing it's job. It automaticly adjusts otherwise you'd never be able to record anything in time. The Centrance test is a good way to prove all is well.
Also as far as changing the sample rate or bit depth sometimes you'll get a message " the rate has been changed to 16 by the drivers" in other words, the drivers seem to aviod higher rates if they "think" your system is not up to it. Used to happen to me on older XP computers.
|
ido1957
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 36
- Joined: 2007/10/17 22:53:48
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/09 10:13:44
(permalink)
Okay so I had a chance to work with this on the weekend. I loaded a vocal track into a new project. Then I routed it:
Sonar = Vocal Track -> U42S Interface LEFT OUTPUT
Sonar = Main -> NONE
U42S Interface = MAIN LEFT OUT -> Hardware Line Input
Hardware = Line Out -> U42S Channel 1 Line Input
U42S Interface = USB -> Sonar Channel 1 Left Input
Input Monitor off.
I recorded a bunch of tracks with various settings.
Some things I found:
The Monitor knob didn't work as it normally does. Usually counter clockwise = more of what you're recording (Channel 1 input) and clockwise = what's coming from Sonar (already recorded. In this case I got nothing from the input side - but I did seem to get a blending of the original and the processed track on the clockwise side so I could hear the processing somewhat.
There was latency - when I played original and processed tracks at the same time I could hear the latency - sort of a phasey sound. Not enough to worry about - it's not noticeable in the mix.
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/09 10:21:53
(permalink)
yes, there will be latency doing that. it's inevitable. there is latency compensation in the later versions of sonar, tho I don't know how well they work since I've never used external inserts.
I don't understand what you mean by "The Monitor knob" what monitor knob are you referring to?
|
ido1957
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 36
- Joined: 2007/10/17 22:53:48
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/09 11:05:58
(permalink)
The monitor knob on the U42S .... it lets you blend what you're recording into the interface with what has already been recorded in Sonar.
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re:Sonar Audio Options - ASIO vs WDM
2012/04/09 12:51:00
(permalink)
Yes the Monitor knob is sadly missing from a few interfaces so not everyone is familiar with that function. Most are marked "computer/Input" so at 12 o clock you get a 50/50 blend of playback and input. Because you have set your output to none, there the whole mix will not be present. There should be the vocal track output in the left monitor if you turn it all the way to the "computer" side. I used Guitar Studio then Sonar 6 for about a year and now when I think back there was terrible latency. So I continued
post edited by Cactus Music - 2012/04/09 13:09:51
|