Tuning doesn't do too much if you don't have "newish" strings? And your instrument is "set-up" for those strings...

It's the whole package, 1) the instrument, 2) the strings, 3) the set-up, 4) the tuning...

If all are not present? The result will be substandard.

And now for an alternate view: "We tune to A-or somewhere around there. I never tuned; if you can find a strobe-tuner in the studio, I'll give you anything you want out of here.I'd just pick up the guitar, and whatever it was tuned to, I'd just tune the instrument to itself and have Mike tune to me, and we'd tune the synthesizer to it. Who made up the rule that an A string had to vibrate at 440, or whatever?" - Eddie Van Halen... of course HE can get away with that.

You can tune? And it will fit what the tuner says? But when you play a chord? It's off... It's because the strings are dead, or the guitar has not been set-up correctly for the strings. It's not just tuning... The easiest way to tell that you have a problem is to tune, then play a bar chord, "it's off?" you have a problem... The harmonics need to be in? The open chords need to be in? And the bar chords need to be in.

jhughs


And now for an alternate view: "We tune to A-or somewhere around there. I never tuned; if you can find a strobe-tuner in the studio, I'll give you anything you want out of here.I'd just pick up the guitar, and whatever it was tuned to, I'd just tune the instrument to itself and have Mike tune to me, and we'd tune the synthesizer to it. Who made up the rule that an A string had to vibrate at 440, or whatever?" - Eddie Van Halen... of course HE can get away with that.

A-440 was well established as the standard before little Eddie was even a twinkle in his daddy's eye.  


And he may have done that..... tuned like that back in the day. If you wish, there is nothing preventing that now. 

Why tune to A-440 and not some random number... or just by ear?  Good question. And the answer is you can tune to whatever you wish to tune to. 


It's easier for me to answer why I tune to A-440.  All my midi synths are set to A-440. So if I tune to 440 on guitar and later add a string or a pad or a piano or anything that is midi, I will not have tuning issues. 


All my keyboards are set to 440 and all my tuners are calibrated to 440 as well. 


If you are not using midi, it matters not to which number you tune. However, if you are recording....lets say, a bluegrass band, which doesn't use midi or piano, you would still want the tuning from one song to the next to be consistent. 


Failing to tune to the same exact pitch between sessions would result in 10 to 12 songs on s CD that were not in the same pitch and to many listeners that would be noticeable. Something would sound off but they may not be able to tell exactly what the issue was. They would just know something wasn't right. 


As for me, I always use a tuner if there is one handy. While my ears are sensitive to pitch, it's easier for me to let the tuner nail it every time as opposed to me trying to decipher those last few cents. 


just my opinion..... tune as you wish. 

Never record an out of tune Guitar. Usally when I have a Songstructure ready, I record (or write) one string or synthpad with as little modulation as possible trough the whole song for reference. (no matter if I will use it later in the arrangement or not) Just the basic chords.
And then record the first guitarparts. That way I know the guitars will be in tune with all other parts I record later on (hopefully) 
Sometimes a guitartake can sound o.k. on it's own, but when its just a little off with e.g. a piano or string section,  it sounds horrible.

Anyhow that's my tuningmethod for recording.

regards,
Dan

Then there are "fretless..." instruments? You can tune them ;-) But weather they are "in tune" is all about how they are played... I just finished one I've been working on for MONTHS! And the fretless just adds a spice which otherwise would not be there... And part of the reason is that they are never "exactly" in tune when you play them? There are quarter note and 8th note variations, and the slides of course. But you work it, and it adds a color to the music that is better for the imperfections.

It's the letters s-p-i-c that are deemed a banned word

digi2ns


Wonder what everyone else does as a standard practice with guitars.

I find that its a necessity to check tuning before hitting [Record] every 3 or 4 takes. I leave my tuner up and on at all times when messing around in the studio. 

Good habit to check often or is it kind of a once a day thing for you?

I'm the odd man out here Mike...as usual. LOL! You're not going to believe this....so I may need to provide a little proof just because I can't talk this ball game and not deliver. Hahaha!
 
Ok, I tune one time and never tune for the rest of the time I record. Sometimes I don't need to tune for a week. The reason being? I never need to. But the REAL reason for this is due to how I meticulously set up my guitars. I'm at a huge disadvantage from most guys because I tune to a C below your standard E using guitars that were made for standard tuning. So I'm dealing with way less tension than you guys which makes tuning a nightmare if you don't really work a guitar.
 
All my guitars have Sperzel locking tuners as well as a Floyd Rose locking nut. My trem springs are changed at least once per year whether they need it or not and I always lube them up with some heavy duty white grease. My trem bar assemblies are all measured and perfectly level with my guitar body so they float evenly. I can pull my guitars off of an airplane and they are either in perfect tune or my low E string may drop a few increments.
 
I DO check my tuning before every new take in a song as well as before I start a new song. But fortunately, I never have to tune. The guitars I own that DON'T have a Floyd (fixed bridge) also have Sperzel locking tuners and either a graphite nut, or graphite dust in a bone nut. Again, never any tuning problems.
 
In the video I'm going to show you, I depressed my trem bar all the way to the body so you can see how much slack my strings get. They literally come off the neck about an inch and a half or more. I also tried to cross them over top of one another to really make this look evil. Yet, as you will see, it stays in perfect tune. If I throw it on a tuner after, it's still dead on "in tune" with maybe a VERY slight waver sharp or flat to where it may move the strobe in a direction every 1.5 seconds while staying in the center as "in tune". That's still in tune to me as it's rare to make a strobe stop dead with a guitar anyway. If I turn strobe off, the regular tuner reads "in tune" right down the center with a green light on both sides.
 
So if you are having any tuning issues, definitely check out those Sperzels. They make an incredible difference as they lock your strings at the tuning post. This is gonna sound funny..lol...but clean your nut every few weeks with soap and water using your finger nails to rub the nut slots while using a paper towel or a rag. After that, use a #2 pencil to put some graphite in the nut slots. This will keep the strings from hanging up there and stop or drastically cut down on tuning issues. Or, buy a little tube of graphite dust and sprinkle it in the nut slots from time to time. It's amazing how little things like that will stop you from tuning as often.
 
Also, watch how you string up. Make sure if you are a wrapper that you get at least three wraps that coil nicely. From there (only for fixed bridge guitars) pull/pop the strings so they seat and the coils tighten. Most of our tuning issues come from new strings as most of us try to use a fresh set for recording. I bought this Fender string stretcher years ago that works great on fixed bridge guitars. It looks like a big letter D and the string tucks under it, you pull the string and slide the tool up and down a few times and it's all stretched out and tight at the coils. Pretty nifty tool if they still even make them. This of course isn't needed if you use Sperzels because the string locks at the post and has no where to go or really stretch.
 
Anyway, have a laugh at this video. Trust me...it's way harder to make a guitar in my goofy low tuning stay in tune than it is to keep one in tune that has the proper tension on it. Just to show you how sick this is and how much slack I get, here's what I'm talking about. LOL!
 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/FlubTension.wmv
 
Hope some of this helps man. :)
 
-Danny

Thanks for the vid Danny.
I never thought about graphite dust (Nice tip) I think alot I see is more of guitars without the Line Lock. Even sitting over night they will go out a little after it has time to get climatized to the room, (enough to be a prob).

Yeh Webb, Im with you on the climate changes that do occur and its effects on tuning. Your method of stretching has been mine as well LOL.

Gonna get me a can of dust and check out Dannys D-Stretcher . Never hurts to give it a shot for future use just in case.

Mike
Thanks for the vid Danny.
I never thought about graphite dust (Nice tip) I think alot I see is more of guitars without the Line Lock. Even sitting over night they will go out a little after it has time to get climatized to the room, (enough to be a prob).

You're welcome. I just had to show you the vid so you saw I wasn't out of my tree for stating such a thing. LOL! Also, what webbs hill said (as well as yourself) about climate is also true. I find if my room is hot, I go flat. If the room is cold, I'm sharp. I try to keep my room anywhere from 69-71 degrees at all times and never have any problems.

Matt
Damn, I'm impressed you can keep your tune like that with a trem bar! I spend a bit of time setting up my guitars, but never to that extreme.. But on the other hand, I don't play may guitars all that much at the moment so I can't quite justify the extra work.

Have heard about the graphite one before. It certainly works very well.

Speaking of cleaning, I remember seeing a funny video once with the 'boil your strings' concept.. I'd be a little worried about rusting if it wasn't properly dried, but I wonder how that would go for bring some life back into the strings.. Can't imagine it would help too much with old strings which aren't holding tune - once the actual metal is starting to yield, you're out of luck.

Yeah if you set up your guitars the right way, it can cut down on tuning issues considerably. The key with Floyd's (or any floater) is to have the bar assembly even with the body while tuned to the pitch you choose. Meaning, you don't just set the bar assembly to be even with the guitar body without tuning first. You may have to tune 4 times while adjusting the trem bar screws inside the cavity so that it evens out with tension. The next is good springs and to make sure the trem assembly is truly even and floating with the body.

If you have it jack-knifing or set back too far, it leaves a little play in the bar which can lead to tuning issues. The other fix of course is how EVH does his....he locks the trem bar assembly all the way back so he can't pull up with it. This is helpful for staying in tune as well as "keeping tone" while playing double stop bends. And the best thing this method does is, if you break a string, you can still get through the song and remain in tune with the others. If someone breaks a string with a full floating trem, the entire guitar goes out of tune...so you gotta make a change in the middle of the song there. 

As for cleaning/boiling thing....EVH used to do this too but moreso to get rid of the string stretching process. I never really looked into it to be able to tell you the pro's and cons there, so I can't be of much help. However, for cleaning, this is what I use that works fantastic as long as you're careful not to allow them to touch your guitar: http://www.allegromedical.com/syringes-c570/curity-alcohol-prep-pads-p191884.html

I depress my bar so the strings come off of the neck like you saw in the video, and those little alcohol pads wrap perfectly around the string. Run it up and down a few times and it literally makes them sound like new again because it takes away all the gunk and build-up on the string. I sweat so bad (I chalk it up as dego baystid sweat/oil lol) I can corrode a set of strings in one show to where they are brown with rust. I have to change strings for every show or use another guitar with fresh strings. I do really play my guitars though....fast runs and bends rip into your flesh, friction plus the sweat and it's easy to see where one can cook a set of strings in one night.

I also always wash my hands before I play one of my guitars and put new strings on once per week...so when you use something like these alcohol pads, it can really help you preserve string tone as well. Like for example, I'd never use a guitar I used for a show for another show. This is due to possible string breakage due to the rust that forms at my bridge from resting my hand there and sweating like a faucet. But when I get home, I cleans things up, wipe them down and then use the alcohol pads and the tone comes right back. I can then record with this guitar and lose no tone nor do I have any tuning issues. I just wouldn't chance playing live with it. :)

-Danny

Hi Trimph,

If you saw the video I included here, yeah I'm in a drop C below your standard E. So yes, with the right set-up and the right hardware, you'd be in the position I'm in. Taking a standard guitar completely down to C (not just the 6th string, I'm talking the whole thing) is definitely a challenge because they aren't made to really do that. You definitely have to experiment with string gauges and manufactures to see which may work for you in YOUR particular tuning choice as well as your playing style.

I actually use GHS Boomer Tremelo 9-42. I've been using them for years. They work really well with drop tunings. 10's would be even better, but I play lots of crazy leads and like my strings to be a bit slinkier. But yeah, if you have both Sperzel locking tuners and a locking nut, with the trem bar set up right (or even if you don't have a trem bar) you're definitely going to either eliminate tuning issues or tune way less than you may now. That's a promise. :) I've even been successful going down to Bb. I believe I posted a small of clip of that for someone to check out at some point. But even there, I'm not having any problems. So it can definitely be done.

-Danny

I tune up on Thursdays ... usually

Yeh, String choice was gonna be my next thought and if any of them were better to go with than others because of tuning issues (Dont think it would be an issue but Im sure there are some poor choices to avoid out there LOL). For years Ive used the Ernie Ball Slinkys but have gone to the Elixirs, and have bounced around to many other brands throughout.

I just pulled out my Sarricola that has been in the case for a long time (Years).  Forget what strings are on it. It has a Floyd Rose Trem and Line Lock on it. It was still dialed in and I couldnt get it to go out of tune. I think the line locks and Floyd really help at keeping it once set-up.

As for the string choices, I believe a good string choice and set-up is needed for any Hard Tails or acoustics to help keep it in tune, (along with set-up, things like good tuners, the graphite dust on the nut and environmental controls). This is the area I need to watch/work on