jjaran12
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Re:What in Hell : Upgrading Essential
2012/04/22 12:15:44
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Hello, Yes , I see the format I type is not holding. I have Firefox 11. Use 5? Oh..man. If it's not one thing it's another. Well, this forum developer should make it work with current advancements.. But I digress and am regressing fast with all this I foisted on everyone. I can't keep up to speed. The 64bit kit to download for the Lola includes a 32 bit ASIO at this time until July when I will download it again with the 64 bit ASIO.( I did try the WDM 64 bit and got the same result-nothing much to nothing.) Anyway, The ASIO of the Lola280 is assigned in Sonar. And it must be working in it's 32bit design since I can record in a track. I need to use that if I ever start using the VSTi I bought because ASIO is what they want me to use. It's called GalaxyX- a convolution synthesizer. I contacted Allusion Studios in Tuscon to see if they could help me adjust my equipment. They do have a fee based hourly rate to do this for home recorders but he said I should contact Digigram because he said the Lola is not for music recording but for courtrooms etc. I don't know at this time if he just went to the Digigram site or knew previous from experience. By the description of the Lola I never would have noticed. HEH HEH Ha ha HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AUUUGGGH. Concerning the picture of the waveform not showing much at all I was used to seeing it in Cool Edit and it was nice to look at and see it change as I applied effect edits to it. I 'll say at this point I did not do anything to prevent Sonar from showing it except that the audio signals may not be high enough even though as I record a track it does sound loud enough to me without increasing the volume from 0db at the 'audio track meter' in Sonar.
post edited by jjaran12 - 2012/04/22 12:24:21
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tlw
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Re:What in Hell : Upgrading Essential
2012/04/22 20:48:48
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If you have the tracks minimized, then you will only get a very thin graphic of the recorded audio. This is because when miminized the track only occupies a thin strip of space. Try creating a project with one audio track only. Record something. Then either grab the bottom of the track header (the grey area with the track name, buttons, etc. on the left of track view) and pull it downwards, click the widget in the top right of the track header or use the vertical zoom tools (see manual). You can resize a track vertically so that it fills most of the screen if you want to. The waveform image generally does not change when you use either pro-channel or fx bin effects - this is usually a good thing (think what a track made of lots of separate clips you want to move around would look like if e.g. a delay was put on the track and the image altered to include all the delay repeats). Things like fades applied to a clip do alter the waveform image. In my opinion it's generally a good idea to record a fairly strong signal (-12 upwards, but out of the red, on the meters if you're recording in 24bit) then mix it at a lower volume if you want it quieter - you get a better signal to noise ratio that way. As for the Lola card, I don't know it, but having quickly looked at the manual I would suggest making sure you have the "automatic gain control" in it switched off. Also, depending on how you've set up the card's software mixer the level you hear what you're recording at and the level actually going into Sonar may not be the same. How good the Lola card is (or not) I've no idea. What exactly it offers e.g. a courtroom that any other multiple-input interface with built-in limiting doesn't offer I don't know either, other than it's probably easier for court staff who are probably not sound engineers) to understand just the card and it's mixer without having to deal with a DAW's signal flow as well. One things certain - anything targeted at the legal market is always expensive :-/ The specs actually look pretty typical for soundcards in general (though only two outputs is perhaps less than ideal depending on your setup). For playing VSTIs much will depend on how good the ASIO (or WASAPI if one's available) driver is. If the driver's no good you will get latency problems. ASIO drivers are about reducing latency, not necessarily improving the sound quality over a WDM driver. PCIe cards generally mean you can get low latencies in principle, but it's down to the driver - and optimising your PC - in the end. As for drivers, no, a 32 bit driver won't work on a 64 bit system. At all. 64bit Windows is designed to prevent you from even installing a 32 bit driver, and can not load or use them. If you are seeing an ASIO entry in Sonar's preferences on a 64bit Windows system it must be using a 64bit ASIO driver. Unless your installed Windows version is actually 32bit Windows running on an x64 system, which is quite possible..... In Vista if you open the "System" window from Control Panel then under the "system" heading it should tell you if you are running a 32 or 64bit operating system. Win7 should have a way to give you the same information. It might be worth checking what it says.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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jjaran12
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Re:What in Hell : Upgrading Essential
2012/04/23 01:00:01
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Hi Everyone, I have good news to tell finally. First I will answer 'tlw' above. Recalling another reply about hovering the cursor at the left edge of the track until I see the little wave cursor and pulling down to enlarge did the job. Now, When I first began on Sonar I did go there to pull the track over further to the right. I must have inadvertently also at some point had the little wave selected and pulled it up so the wave hardly showed ! Since it stays like that until pulling back down I thought there must be a malfunction. I am having a little difficulty seeing perfectly due to a mass of floaters in my eyes so I missed that little 'tiny' thing. And I'm just 30 in. from a 1024x768 resolution. I'm getting a better monitor. This one being older. So, now I am much more satisfied of course.==== About the ASIO: It is 32 bit and my OS is Win 7 professional 64 bit - service pack 1 - ACER VERITON 3 Ghz. 4 GB ram . Well, the ASIO is working here and well except that in a minute of recording my very 'low attack' drones I hear some tiny ticks and one noticeable tick that is not a clip. I thought it might be the latency setting. It was at 3.2 ms and 128 samples. At that setting the audio error field was red with 68 play error count and several record errors. I raised the buffer size to 256 and only got 6 and 2. I raised it to 512 and got 2 play and no record. That's where I stopped tonight to write this. So, this being my first ASIO I guess I should raise it till no errors. Right? The sample size is 32 bit. I would like your comment on this outcome. Are you sure? Anyway, it is definitely 32 bit in a 64 bit system as I see it.=== Except for the tick(s) the Lola seems to be working fine. The reverb and amp simluators and Parametric EQ of the KORG seem to be sounding just like listening to the KORG alone.=== Oh.. I almost forgot what may have been a mistake previously about selecting 'audio track' and selecting the in and out at the bottom of the meter. I had the in correct from the LOla but I had the out going to the master. I now have the out as Lola out. I think I saw that the waveform got even bigger. I hope this is right. So,I really do have cognitive disability. Dang it. I look forward to operating GalaxyX with much trepidation. ==== About the meter levels- they were about -24 as I recorded. I did have the AGC on at the first position from off. I will try turning off and raise the input level to compensate.( I guess ) It is now at 5 with AGC on.=== At this point I believe Digigram is high quality and they are touting it to the courts and media as a selling point. And you are correct about the pricing point. As with a lot of other interfaces into the thousands of dollars they are being targeted to professional companies with big bank accounts. Well, The Lola PCIe low profile card was the only one I could find like that. My smallish minitower has only one PCIe slot and One video card slot- I guess-long terminal. Anyway, I wanted small to fit in my dinette in my trailer.
post edited by jjaran12 - 2012/04/23 01:19:14
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John
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Re:What in Hell : Upgrading Essential
2012/04/23 01:19:10
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Post the name of the ASIO driver please. The full name.
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jjaran12
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Re:What in Hell : Upgrading Essential
2012/04/23 01:24:20
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Hi John, It says in Devices of Sonar- ASIO Lola Digigram Lola280 #1 in 1
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ampfixer
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Re:What in Hell : Upgrading Essential
2012/04/23 03:12:25
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This may sound stupid, but why not return the card and get a USB interface. You'd save a lot of money and have a much easier go of things. Really, not trying to be funny, just trying to save some pain.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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jjaran12
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Re:What in Hell : Upgrading Essential
2012/04/23 15:27:45
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I had previously used a small Behringer mixer to use with my old system and Hoontek card. Then recently when researching the new hardware I saw that USB interfaces are,I guess, convenient to use and because I have tendency to buy cheap( except the Lola card ) I chose the Infamous Presonas usb. and confirmed by another post in this forum It sounds awful with some kind of squeeky line noise and I thought this is junk also. So, since I took more than thirty days to get my computer and software I can't get a refund from Guitar Center. So, I'm bummed by that and I thought I do not want to sit here and turn knobs for an hour in an attempt to get one to work right and so I am leery of any others.=== Now, at this point I have corrected a couple mistakes I made and now see that the Lola may very well be a professional device and state of the art as they say it is at Digigram. I sent them an email about the guy that said it's not for music but did not get an answer.(smug?) I think my main problem now is some little ticks when I play back a track and need to adjust the ASIO buffer size more. I am somewhat worried about a comment made yesterday above that a ASIO may be high quality or not so good. As if the average consumer could determine before hand before spending big bucks experimenting.
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tlw
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Re:What in Hell : Upgrading Essential
2012/04/23 19:35:39
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About the ASIO: It is 32 bit and my OS is Win 7 professional 64 bit - service pack 1 - ACER VERITON 3 Ghz I suspect you might be getting the many different ways the word "bit" gets used a bit confused - perhaps because it is confusing at first. Your Lola card, according to the manual, operates in 24bit sample-depth audio itself (this is pretty much the standard for interfaces) but can output 32bit data - i.e. data with twice the bit depth of a CD. This use of the word "bits" has nothing at all to do with Windows or the PC's hardware. Your PC is running "64bit" Windows. This has nothing at all to do with the sample bit depth the Lola or it's driver is outputting to Sonar, but is to do with how (to keep thing simple) the operating system handles data and hardware. Likewise, an x64 PC has hardware that operates at a bandwidth of 64bits. It is possible to run a 32bit copy of Windows on x64 hardware, but not vice versa. What matters with the ASIO driver is that it is written (programmed) to work on a 64bit system running 64bit Windows. From what you say it appears that it is. Therefore the driver is what is called a "64bit driver" - if it wasn't Windows wouldn't - in fact couldn't - let it run at all. It would seem that what you are doing is selecting the card's driver "output" that offers a 32bit audio depth. Sonar can handle this bit depth directly I think, if you go into preferences and set it as the preferred bit depth for new projects. It will, however, occupy a vast amount of disc space very quickly (32bit wave files are big...). Personally I'd recommend setting Sonar to record in 24bit then export the finished work to whatver bit depth you need (e.g. 16 for CD). The clicks, ticks and pops you refer to probably are to do with the ASIO settings, and raising the ASIO buffer and adjusting the diver settings may deal with the problem. If it doesn't, or you find there's too much delay between you playing a note on your controller and a VSTi responding ("latency") search this forum for "latency" and "dpc latency" - you'll find much there that will help you. A quick fix that may make a big difference is to use Window's device manager to disable any wireless networking/internet adaptors before launching Sonar - the things (or, to be accurate, their drivers) are notorious trouble causers for DAWs. Latency's a by-product of how modern Windows and PCs multi-task by the way. Working with software synths may be convenient, but it has its problems to, latency being one of them. How low you can get the latency depends on the PC in question (all are different, even if they came off the same production line), the background software running and the particular ASIO driver being used. Some drivers will give lower latencies than others (which is what I meant by saying some are better than others) but all other things being equal, a PCIe card should give you the best chance of lowest latencies. You're right about how few PCIe cards there are on the market, as well. I assume you're using a MIDI interface of some kind as well? I strongly recommend you have a look at Chapter 35 in the pdf Sonar Manual, "Improving Audio Performance" as it deals with a lot of this stuff. If in doubt after that, seach these forums and the web (but be very wary of any advice that pre-dates Windows Vista as much advice around is now outdated) and if you need help never be afraid to ask. You're far from the first person to find setting a DAW up a bit daunting and you certainly won't be the last. We've all been there, and even the most experienced run into a problem they've never come across before at times. Finally, it looks like the AGC feature is actually a compressor/limiter of some sort (a good idea to prevent unanticipated overloads when recording in e.g. a courtroom or meeting). One reason I suggest switching it off is that you may well not want your audio compressed before entering Sonar - you'll get far more control (and choice of compressor) by compressing it afterwards, and there's rarely a need to compress before recording if sampling at 24bit or greater anyway because of the amount of headroom available. Anyway, it sounds like you're making progress :-). As for Sonar X1's interface not being entirely friendly to people with visual difficulties, a few people have made that point before now.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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jjaran12
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Re:What in Hell : Upgrading Essential
2012/04/23 23:05:27
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Hi, Thanks for the excellent info. The compatibility chart at digigram shows the ASIO driver as 32 bit and by June they are to have a 64 bit one to download. So, I don't get it. Anyway, I will set it at 24 bit. That's what I had in my old system except Cool Edit used 32 bit for editing. I'll read up on all that. It's still greek to me after all these years. I haven't tried the VSTi yet. And I will turn off the AGC. I sure hope I can get rid of the ticks. I had a DirectX hiss and noise reduction effect(?) in Cool Edit and will want to get one to use. In fact I need it to clean up some fuzzy and raspy KORG sounds I use. Of course, I may have to much reverb on. I wonder why Sonar and other programs don't have hiss reduction? I'm going to feedback to Sonar to make those tiny cursors bigger or colored. So, I made a few mistakes unrelated to any perceived malfunction of Sonar but am glad I finally discovered them.=== Today I also got c and X1d in it. The first attempt was aborted and I got that error message whether I had 32 bit or 64 bit system. That went away after recalling that my new computer had shut down during the download. I forgot to set the power options to 'never shutdown'.=== MIDI interface ? All I know is that I bought a MIDI usb cable ( UM-one by Roland.) I never used MIDI like that - only used main audio outs of the KORG.=== Concerning the ASIO I have I wonder if 512 or 1024/10 ms is still low. After all, 10 ms is miniscule. Right?
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Teds_Studio
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Re:What in Hell : Upgrading Essential
2012/04/23 23:42:51
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☄ Helpful
I can attest to the fact that jumping into X1 is quite a learning curve. I've had X1 now for almost 5 months...and I still have a LOT to learn. I went from Pro Audio 9 (using for midi sequencer only) to Sonar X1 Producer Expanded. When I first joined the forum and started asking questions, I too was frustrated quite frequently and more than likely came across as such. But truly, the people here have helped me more than I can say. And I have actually been able to help a couple myself. These folks are great people and a wealth of info and I appreciate each and every one here...!
ASRock X99 Extreme4 MB....Gigabyte GeForce GTX 960 4 GB DDR 5.....Intel i7 5820k 3.3 Ghz....Corsair RM850i power supply....3 Seagate 1TB SATA III drives....32 Gig G.Skill Ripjaws DDR4 3000.....Win 10 Pro.....Sonar X1 Producer Exp & X2, X3...Platinum....Superior Drummer 2 & 3 w/ N.Y. Vol 2 SDX.....Sony VEGAS Pro 11.0 32 & 64 bit Pro 12.....Sony VX2100.....Sony HVR-Z7U....Sony HDR-CX130....Alesis HD24....Behringer X32 console....Focusrite 18i20....JBL LSR2328P studio monitors with LSR2310P sub.
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jjaran12
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Re:What in Hell : Upgrading Essential
2012/04/24 22:35:43
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Thanks to everyone for trying to figure out what , ultimately, were a few simple mistakes I made initially. Since the forum seems to not have a button for problem solved I'll say that it is and if I have any other questions to ask it will be via a new thread.==== Til Next Time.=== by the way, having set the ASIO to 1024/20ms got rid of any ticks and no audio errors counted. Now I hope the GalaxyX Synth will work at this setting. Now, on to the Manuals.
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Cactus Music
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Re:What in Hell : Upgrading Essential
2012/04/25 11:08:25
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So the wave forum issue that started the thread was a simple matter of adjusting the track size ( like I said 40 posts back :) . Thanks John for pointing out the 64 bit drivers were WDM, I missed that, I was directing it at OP too. But what I don't get is now the OP is using 32 bit ASIO drivers in a 64 bit OS environment?? It by rights should not work properly. I would think using the 64 bit WDM drivers while waiting for July should be the better choice. I would think they would be more stable. And jjaran- It has been mentioned but I get a feeling you are still confusing 32 bit and 64 bit Operating systems with 16 bit, 24 bit and 32 bit recording resolution ( word length ) these are two very unrelated things. It's easily confused as digital audio uses data so has both a clock rate ( 44.1/48) and a word length ( 16-24-32 ) and so does a computers operating system. I understand the audio resoluting part but don't ask me how data moves around inside the magic box, I don't want to know!! :}
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jjaran12
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Re:RESOLVED-scroll to bottom: Upgrading Essential
2012/04/25 23:09:59
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Hi CM, Confused ? Yes. And to now have put the ASIO at 24 bits. ha. I found out from the GalaxyX support that 1024/20 ms is absolutely OK - as he said. Plays and sounds good to me. My KORG - haven't started the convolution synth yet as I am reading the manuals. By the way, activating the sound banks in the synth was like trying to get into FT. Knox. I made a mistake copying the codes over and finally asked if he would install them remotely. He did !! Had me install Teamviewer a free utility. He had it all in in 15 minutes. This is something to think about if anyone would like to help someone out on Sonar for instance in getting something to work right. I should have asked about that on my problem !
post edited by jjaran12 - 2012/04/26 13:14:50
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