No reply from tech support yet. Here's a quick video demonstrating the issue. Anyone else have this problem? --- First you hear the track correctly with all plugs bypassed - the two snares are muted via track volume automation. Then plugs enabled, automation does not mute the snares but some other portion. --- video here: http://ericzang.com/temp3/sonartest.avi

Wondering if anyone else has this same problem? It is very easy to test.

freezing the track provided an almost good result except for a click in the clip gain.

ericzang


this link will probably play the video better: http://ericzang.com/temp3/sonartest.html

I see the issue, but using 4 instances of the linear phase eq would probably always cause lagging issues. This type of vst along with convolutions are not going to be responsive to quick changes.

Brilliantly put Stoons. 

ericzang


Yes, my latency is set to maximum, but the plugin latencies are greater. I wonder if any of you also have this problem? I have just sent an email to tech support, pasted below. If it is not peculiar to my system, then you may be able to easily reproduce the problem as described below. ------------ Hello, I have found that high latency plugins cause playback of automation to not work or be inaccurate/out of sync. You can download a simple test project which demonstrates the problem: http://ericzang.com/temp/x1%20automation%20latency%20test.cwb I have inserted 10 instances of the LP64-EQ, but actually only 3 instances are necessary for the track volume envelope to become inaccurate. Bypass the effects bin to hear the proper result of the automation. Enable the bin and the automation will not work properly. Bouncing the track to another produces the proper result with the clip gain envelope, but the volume envelope still does not work. My interface asio latency on the octa-capture is set to maximum at 2048, and at 96 the result is the same. Is there a setting that may resolve this problem? And if so, will this apply to Sonar 8.5, as I am still finishing a project there. Thank you very much, Eric

 
Eric, I tested your file in 8.5.3 with the following results:
 
When I open the file the Gain env is hidden and only the Volume env is visible. The track plays perfectly as it appears with one hit being muted. When I disable the bin then I can hear that there is another hit being muted. So I searched and found you had a Gain envelope enabled so I made it visible as well. Then the results changed. The Volume envelope and the Gain envelope were both sounding early. Both work with bin disabled.
 
However, I noticed an obvious discrepency in that the Volume envelope is a Track envelope whereas the Gain is a Clip envelope (as you already know). So as a test I converted the Gain env to a Pan env and the delay was identical so possibly the issue is with Clip and not Track envelopes. 
 
Are you looking to workaround the issue or are you looking for more ways to break the machine? Just kidding, but in reality when you try to do things in such an offhand way as you have the results are questionable. In other words your are appying a Gain envelope to a Groove clip. The Groove clip is already internally divided/sliced into multiple pieces each with it's own settings for Gain etc. which is complex enough. Perhaps applying envelopes to Groove clips is causing extra latency.
 
The fix in this specific example is simple: remove the Gain envelope from the clip, double click the groove clip, click on the beat you want muted (the hit you had muted via the Gain envelope) and set the Gain to 0dB. Works perfectly for me even with the 10 LP64's and the Volume envelope active. This may not help you in regards to the overall issue though unless you consider this approach may work in situations you haven't even anticipated - there's often a workaround.
 
Have you tried this on non-groove clips and found the result is the same?
 
Clearly my suggestion won't solve the entire issue but in all fairness I can't see why you would want to accomplish what you were trying to do in the way you were trying to do it. If you have another similiar problem perhaps there is as simple a workaround as in this case. Sorry I can't help on the X1 side of things. Cheers.
 
 

Thanks SToons very much for checking it out. I used the groove clip just out of convenience for demonstration. In my real projects where I have encountered automation timing inaccuracy I am not using groove clips. 10 instances is not very real world for sure, so in the video I link to above there are only 4, and I am using just a Track Volume envelope. Even that is not real world, but I was looking for something very simple to demonstrate the issue. The problem happens usually with medium to larger projects with many plugins. I actually never use LP64, I just used it for demonstration because it comes with Sonar so others could test easily. I am also usually using 8.5.3. I used X1d because it is the latest version. I will try some more tests in the other hosts, but in Reaper I loaded it up with around eight or so of Ozone's heaviest limiter mode IRCIII inducing a lot of latency and the track vol curve performance was ok. I need to test some more times, but in the previous X1 test with 10 instances, bouncing the track to another produces the proper result with the clip gain envelope, but the volume envelope did not work. Anyways, when I get a chance I will do some more tests and try to make them more real world and consistent in presentation. [Dang, message entry still doesn't recognize my paragraph spacing!]

Just throwing this out there, I have this problem as well, while automating track volume and/or pan on large and complicated projects. What the envelope shows and what actually happens are different things. So, when you need 1 syllable louder, or someone wants a quick panning effect, you are SOL because you can't precisely automate. Which, of course, is completely unacceptable for any "professional" DAW. So if you add a CPU intensive plug, it throws your automation off for the whole mix. Nice.

I run Win7 64 with SONAR X1 Expanded 64 with all the PC add-ons. This happens on all large projects, using 100% Cakewalk plugs, no 3rd party. I master with oZone in a separate project for performance reasons (this being one of them).