Helpful ReplyDisappointed with interface - plans to improve?

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leegee
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2016/08/24 08:20:20 (permalink)

Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?

Recently I had to upgrade from Logic 9, so bought a PC and a touch screen, and since I used Sonar (and Cakewalk) before my Mc was around, I bought a copy of Sonar Professional.
 
I am finding it very hard to use -- largely because the mouse pointer is so small that I spend half my time looking for it.
 
Partly this can be solved by keboard shortcuts, but it would be far easier if our devs take a look at Bitwig Studio, and how easy to use it is -- it has the touch integration I expected from Sonar.
 
As a developer of some 20-years, I understand that technical debt can sometimes get in the way of progress, and no mater how little debt Sonar has, it is bound to be more than Bitwig's.
 
Now that you seem to have fully embraced the Agile methodology, with your wonderfully welcome regular releases, do you also have a publication of your roadmap, epics, or simillar?
 
I would rather not have to buy Bitwig, but if the Sonar interface is not seen as a priority (possibly for very good reasons), then I will put my $300 into BWS, rather than upgrading Pro to Platinum.
 
TIA
Lee
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chuckebaby
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/24 08:54:26 (permalink)
mouse settings are changed in system settings not in sonar.

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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/24 10:11:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2016/08/24 18:18:08
Here's how to load the extra large cursor in Windows. Choose Start > Settings > Devices > Mouse & Trackpad. Then:
 


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Brian Walton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/24 10:23:09 (permalink)
Sonar's Skylight interface is actually top notch.  One of the key selling points.  Use dual monitors and you will be happy.  And it could be argued that other than using a monitor to adjust faders like a mixing console...touch isn't the best way to work with any DAW.  
 
And you might want to change your screen resolution and mouse settings for the Operating System...which has nothing to do with Sonar.  
post edited by Brian Walton - 2016/08/24 10:51:33
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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/24 17:20:44 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby rontarrant 2016/08/30 19:26:45
This is why I like the forum so much. Clearly the OP doesn't realize you can change cursor size, and that's why I did the "how to change the cursor size" diagram. BUT in trying out the XL cursor to make sure what I wrote worked, I found that I really like having the big cursor. So now that's the way I've left it, but I never would have done this without taking the initiative to answer the OP.
 
Large cursors rule!

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/24 20:30:04 (permalink)
Anderton
This is why I like the forum so much. Clearly the OP doesn't realize you can change cursor size, and that's why I did the "how to change the cursor size" diagram. BUT in trying out the XL cursor to make sure what I wrote worked, I found that I really like having the big cursor. So now that's the way I've left it, but I never would have done this without taking the initiative to answer the OP.
 
Large cursors rule!


Yeah - I just got off my behind and finally got around to using the Costco-sized cursor too, so thanks to both Craig and the OP.
 
I think I will look at the Ease of Access magnifier options, as well, as I am truly getting to where I can't read text or the little itty bitty tiny items displayed in the Sonar UI.
 
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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/24 20:42:54 (permalink)
robert_e_bone
I think I will look at the Ease of Access magnifier options, as well, as I am truly getting to where I can't read text or the little itty bitty tiny items displayed in the Sonar UI.



I was surprised at how developed the Ease of Access magnifier is.
 
Think the OP will ever return ?

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/24 22:48:09 (permalink)
The OP probably doesn't realize the patience it takes when switching DAWs.It's always a good idea to try DAW demos before hitting the buy button.

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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/24 22:54:44 (permalink)
Haha - the forum shows its worth again. I too am loving my enourmous new cursor:) Such a simple change we all knew was there but never used.
 
I use the magnifier (suggested by scook) on stage to magnify the selected line of the playlist. A very useful tool.

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leegee
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 12:34:42 (permalink)
Thank you for meaning well when suggesting how to change cursor size in Windows. If you try to do that yourself, you will see that it cursor size is not respected by Sonar.
 
Of course 'one could argue' the interface is fine, that touch is not ideal for a DAW, but I disagree, and could argue the contrary!
 
I feel like Sonar hasn't moved on since 1999, whereas Logic has intuitive keyboard short cuts, and Bit Wig looks like it
is GUI future proof.
 
The main point of my post was in the title -- are there plans to improve?
 
Is there a roadmap for development?
 
Does anyone at Cakewalk read this forum?
 
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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 13:12:52 (permalink)
leegee
Thank you for meaning well when suggesting how to change cursor size in Windows. If you try to do that yourself, you will see that it cursor size is not respected by Sonar.

 
You are wrong. Changes to the Window cursor persist in SONAR. Here's a screen shot that shows the large cursor persists, as has been verified by several other people in this thread. I don't know what you're doing wrong but if you follow the directions in Post 3 it should work for you as well as it has for others. Maybe you forgot to click on "Apply"?
 

 
Of course 'one could argue' the interface is fine, that touch is not ideal for a DAW, but I disagree, and could argue the contrary!

 
IIRC SONAR was the first DAW to integrate multi-touch. In my studio, I have a Planar touch monitor for bigger gestures, to supplement the keyboard and mouse I use for details.
 
I feel like Sonar hasn't moved on since 1999

 
SONAR was introduced in 2001, not 1999. It has gone through three radical transformations since then.
 
The main point of my post was in the title -- are there plans to improve?

 
There are improvements happening all the time. Read the eZine in the Rolling Updates section to find out about the changes that have happened. The Theme Editor and Plug-In Browser changes are the most recent ones.
 
Is there a roadmap for development?

 
Of course there's a roadmap - it's a software company - and some (by no means all, they're not stupid) of the future plans are shared on the main product page. The workspaces feature looks particularly promising.
 
Does anyone at Cakewalk read this forum?

 
Obviously they do, given how many changes to the program have been made in response to requests from the community.



The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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chuckebaby
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 14:27:27 (permalink)
it almost seems like a cursor concern is not really the problem at all.
it appears there is an under laying innuendo going on (Logic and Bitwig).
im not saying your trying to troll the forum or anything but I just don't see your point.
 
if you don't see the transformation Sonar has made (for the better) than im not sure you have even opened up previous versions...or even this one.
 
I wish you luck on your ventures and quest for the perfect DAW when you find it let me know .
make good music and be happy ;-) 

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Sanderxpander
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 14:46:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/08/30 17:22:16
I like Logic but compared to Sonar I definitely wouldn't say the keyboard shortcuts are "intuitive". In any case, you're free to change most of them.

But indeed, this seems more a post to downput Sonar because the OP has already decided he likes Logic and Bitwig better. That's fine, they're decent products, but it's a bit strange ranting about it here. Use what you like.
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outland144k
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 14:58:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2016/08/29 21:33:37
leegee
Thank you for meaning well when suggesting how to change cursor size in Windows. If you try to do that yourself, you will see that it cursor size is not respected by Sonar.
 
Of course 'one could argue' the interface is fine, that touch is not ideal for a DAW, but I disagree, and could argue the contrary!
 
I feel like Sonar hasn't moved on since 1999, whereas Logic has intuitive keyboard short cuts, and Bit Wig looks like it
is GUI future proof.
 
The main point of my post was in the title -- are there plans to improve?
 
Is there a roadmap for development?
 
Does anyone at Cakewalk read this forum?
 


Okay, so you've been a developer for twenty years and you have issues with a mouse cursor?
 
You can't see any changes in Sonar (er, um, Cakewalk) since 1999?
 
You complain about the need to improve, but your post is almost totally mum about which features on which you'd like to see improvement? (Why does this vague criticism seem similar to the tried-and-true technique some trolls use [on sites that see a lot of spirited debate] when they lob a purposefully nebulous comment into a forum and watch in glee as others scurry about trying to answer what they speculate the offending comment must mean?)  Chuck's remark is spot-on: have you even opened Sonar recently?

 
And you want us here to take you seriously?
 
Right....
 
 
post edited by outland144k - 2016/08/29 15:21:45

“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.

 
 
 
 
 
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MGC59
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 15:21:47 (permalink)
Hey, that potential troll got this curser to use a large cursor thanks to Craig! I even tried to write this in cursive!

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outland144k
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 16:16:18 (permalink)
MGC59
Hey, that potential troll got this curser to use a large cursor thanks to Craig! I even tried to write this in cursive!


 
You're right, of course: good things can come about as a result of even troll-like posts. I actually started using big cursors because of Craig's comment as well. It was a great suggestion. And thanks for reminding me of that truth.
 
However, Craig, Chuck, (and scook, too, although I haven't seen him on this thread yet) shouldn't have to put up with stuff like this. They help so many people, and are so patient with that. I'm so sure that they have better things to do. And I don't think we in the peanut gallery need it either, really.
 
 
 
 

“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.

 
 
 
 
 
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 16:28:07 (permalink)
leegee
Thank you for meaning well when suggesting how to change cursor size in Windows. If you try to do that yourself, you will see that it cursor size is not respected by Sonar.
 
Of course 'one could argue' the interface is fine, that touch is not ideal for a DAW, but I disagree, and could argue the contrary!
 
I feel like Sonar hasn't moved on since 1999, whereas Logic has intuitive keyboard short cuts, and Bit Wig looks like it
is GUI future proof.
 
The main point of my post was in the title -- are there plans to improve?
 
Is there a roadmap for development?
 
Does anyone at Cakewalk read this forum?
 




Maybe you should spend time reading the forum. You are accused of being a troll based on your ignorance in those questions.  The road map for development is through the ezine, this forum, and newsletter.
 
 There is a feature request on this site if you are looking to gui improvements.

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kitekrazy1
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 16:31:24 (permalink)
outland144k
leegee
Thank you for meaning well when suggesting how to change cursor size in Windows. If you try to do that yourself, you will see that it cursor size is not respected by Sonar.
 
Of course 'one could argue' the interface is fine, that touch is not ideal for a DAW, but I disagree, and could argue the contrary!
 
I feel like Sonar hasn't moved on since 1999, whereas Logic has intuitive keyboard short cuts, and Bit Wig looks like it
is GUI future proof.
 
The main point of my post was in the title -- are there plans to improve?
 
Is there a roadmap for development?
 
Does anyone at Cakewalk read this forum?
 


Okay, so you've been a developer for twenty years and you have issues with a mouse cursor?
 
You can't see any changes in Sonar (er, um, Cakewalk) since 1999?
 
You complain about the need to improve, but your post is almost totally mum about which features on which you'd like to see improvement? (Why does this vague criticism seem similar to the tried-and-true technique some trolls use [on sites that see a lot of spirited debate] when they lob a purposefully nebulous comment into a forum and watch in glee as others scurry about trying to answer what they speculate the offending comment must mean?)  Chuck's remark is spot-on: have you even opened Sonar recently?

 
And you want us here to take you seriously?
 
Right....
 
 




 Just like in prison everyone is innocent and on the web everyone is a developer.
 BTW could you change your font and size in your post, very difficult to read and I ignore a lot of your posts. It's even difficult to read on a 32 inch display.
 
 
 

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Pragi
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 17:38:37 (permalink)
Seems that there is another grumbler sonarforumed away .
post edited by Pragi - 2016/08/30 04:24:00
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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 17:48:26 (permalink)
outland144k
However, Craig, Chuck, (and scook, too, although I haven't seen him on this thread yet) shouldn't have to put up with stuff like this. They help so many people, and are so patient with that. I'm so sure that they have better things to do. 

 
Yeah, but look how many people are using the big cursor now! It's changed my quality of computer life, and not just with SONAR. Besides, I don't think he's necessarily a troll, he wants to use a touch screen (didn't specify the size) and thinks Bitwig would take better advantage of it. Presumably he'll find out whether it does or not. All I can say is if you're doing to use touch...get the biggest honkin' screen you can.
 
Anyway, after post #10 I figured when you have lemons, make lemonade...or even better, add some Cacique Guaro, tomato juice, a dash of tobasco, and make a chiliguaro

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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DrLumen
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 18:30:23 (permalink)
leegee
Recently I had to upgrade from Logic 9, so bought a PC and a touch screen, and since I used Sonar (and Cakewalk) before my Mc was around, I bought a copy of Sonar Professional.
 
I am finding it very hard to use -- largely because the mouse pointer is so small that I spend half my time looking for it.
 
Partly this can be solved by keboard shortcuts, but it would be far easier if our devs take a look at Bitwig Studio, and how easy to use it is -- it has the touch integration I expected from Sonar.
 
As a developer of some 20-years, I understand that technical debt can sometimes get in the way of progress, and no mater how little debt Sonar has, it is bound to be more than Bitwig's.
 
Now that you seem to have fully embraced the Agile methodology, with your wonderfully welcome regular releases, do you also have a publication of your roadmap, epics, or simillar?
 
I would rather not have to buy Bitwig, but if the Sonar interface is not seen as a priority (possibly for very good reasons), then I will put my $300 into BWS, rather than upgrading Pro to Platinum.
 
TIA
Lee




I guess a welcome is in order since you are new here.
 
However, while CW is always making changes and improvements, the odds are just too high they would make changes that met with your exact wants or needs and in a way you would find perfect. I also would really doubt they would copy directly from Bitwig or Logic.
 
Not to be negative but if you want Bitwig then the only thing I can suggest is to buy Bitwig. Or, since you already bought Sonar(?) I would suggest to wait and see. Otherwise maybe a goodbye is appropriate?

-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 18:37:54 (permalink)
Excellent point, doctor. I always advise people to purchase gear for what it does now, not what it may or may not do in the future. "Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future." - Yoda

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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outland144k
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 18:45:29 (permalink)
kitekrazy1
 
 
 BTW could you change your font and size in your post, very difficult to read and I ignore a lot of your posts. It's even difficult to read on a 32 inch display.
 
 
 



I could change it, but I think that you are the only person to mention this. I do "this" for the same reason some people use different colors in their posts. I'll think about changing it. Sorry if it's caused you any grief, however! Thankfully, I don't say a lot worth noticing.
 
 

“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.

 
 
 
 
 
#23
outland144k
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 18:50:14 (permalink)
Anderton
 
Anyway, after post #10 I figured when you have lemons, make lemonade...or even better, add some Cacique Guaro, tomato juice, a dash of tobasco, and make a chiliguaro




Good point. And again, if I haven't said it recently, "thank you so much" for all you do here. You (and the others who help continuously) are very appreciated. 

“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.

 
 
 
 
 
#24
JustGotPaid
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 19:04:01 (permalink)
@ outland 144k.....Classic!
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 20:12:42 (permalink)
leegee
Does anyone at Cakewalk read this forum?

 
Evidently they do. A few days ago I posted a problem here (quite an obscure one really) and one of the cakewalk staff replied with the solution.

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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 20:35:57 (permalink)
outland144k
Anderton
 
Anyway, after post #10 I figured when you have lemons, make lemonade...or even better, add some Cacique Guaro, tomato juice, a dash of tobasco, and make a chiliguaro


Good point. And again, if I haven't said it recently, "thank you so much" for all you do here. You (and the others who help continuously) are very appreciated. 



Thanks much! This forum has given back plenty in return to me, it's where I get the ideas for the SONAR column in Sound on Sound, new FX chains, etc...as well as tech support for some pretty esoteric issues.
 
But reading between the lines, I think what you're really hinting for is more drink recipes. 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 20:49:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby FCCfirstclass 2016/08/30 10:23:30
outland144k
kitekrazy1
 
 
 BTW could you change your font and size in your post, very difficult to read and I ignore a lot of your posts. It's even difficult to read on a 32 inch display.
 
 
 



I could change it, but I think that you are the only person to mention this. I do "this" for the same reason some people use different colors in their posts. I'll think about changing it. Sorry if it's caused you any grief, however! Thankfully, I don't say a lot worth noticing.
 
 


I can read it fine.
Also, you do say a lot worth noticing. Your contributions on theme editing have brought me a lot of happiness.
im grateful.

Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
   
#28
outland144k
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 21:55:47 (permalink)
chuckebaby
outland144k
kitekrazy1
 
 
 BTW could you change your font and size in your post, very difficult to read and I ignore a lot of your posts. It's even difficult to read on a 32 inch display.
 
 
 



I could change it, but I think that you are the only person to mention this. I do "this" for the same reason some people use different colors in their posts. I'll think about changing it. Sorry if it's caused you any grief, however! Thankfully, I don't say a lot worth noticing.
 
 


I can read it fine.
Also, you do say a lot worth noticing. Your contributions on theme editing have brought me a lot of happiness.
im grateful.




Thanks, Chuck. I'm glad you like them. And, as always, you're welcome.

post edited by outland144k - 2016/08/30 02:43:16

“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.

 
 
 
 
 
#29
outland144k
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? 2016/08/29 22:02:26 (permalink)
Anderton
 
Thanks much! This forum has given back plenty in return to me, it's where I get the ideas for the SONAR column in Sound on Sound, new FX chains, etc...as well as tech support for some pretty esoteric issues.
 
But reading between the lines, I think what you're really hinting for is more drink recipes. 




Well, you guys deserve the thanks.
 
As far as the drink recipes are concerned, I kid about them sometimes, but as a heart transplant, hard stuff is totally off the table. I can have an occasional glass of wine (3-4 times a year) or a couple of ales, but that's pretty much it. Thankfully, I never drank hard anyway. I've been what my musician friends refer to as a "beer snob" for years, and we tend not drink heavily. Two good micro-brews and I'm done.  

“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.

 
 
 
 
 
#30
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